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[p76rangie]

These are my comments on the threads posted in this section. As previously mentioned, most of the advice is good, my comments only relate to the areas that I strongly disagree with. So let the name calling begin.

SO YOU WANT TO TAKE ROVER FOR A SWIM!

"The simple answer to WADING is avoiding it as much as possible, unless you have lots of disposable cash, or it's an emergency."
It would appear that you have something against water crossing. Anything below the tops of your tyres is unlikely to cause any damage in a properly maintained vehicle. The fear of water appears to be a definite theme through the article.

"As well as fitting the wading plug, the axle breathers need to be extended. These need to be at least engine height, higher if deep water crossing."
Most of the axle breathers are already at engine height. Extension is not usually required. I don’t think that many would get through water higher than the motor, so not sure why it would be required. The breathers are only required when cold water first touches the component involved. The rapid cooling caused by the water causes the air inside the component to contract and sucking in air from outside. It is more important to make sure the breathers are not blocked, otherwise water will be such in past any seals.

"If you intend to do a deep crossing and you don’t have a snorkel, a long length of pipe (flexible at the exhaust end), needs to be fitted over your exhaust."
Water up the exhaust is only an issue if you stop the motor in very deep water. You don’t seem to define what “deep”is, but most of the suggestion would only be valid if above the top of the wheels.

DOOR SEALS
"If a deep water crossing is anticipated, tape up all your doors (except the rear) this should be left open for escape purposes if you suddenly get carried away with the current and water pressure on your drivers side door prevents you from opening it."
I think that this is very much over the top and would be a safety issue. If another section you recommend opening the doors to stop floating away and in this one you recommend taping them up. I have never heard of someone doing this before. Water inside the vehicle is usually only an issue if you stop or are stuck.

"leaving your doors open when entering deep flowing water 1 metre (3 feet) and deeper, is the better alternative. By allowing the vehicle to fill with water it will at least have traction; otherwise it will tend to float."
In another section you state that 1 metre is the top of the bonnet. This also means that it is the top of the dash. How long do you think a vehicle would operate with its entire electrics (inside and out) under water. It is silly to even suggest crossing water over the bonnet unless it is a diesel and a person has a very understanding insurance company.

ELECTRICALS
"If a deep water crossing is contemplated, cover the distributor all over in a thick layer of grease. Fill a plastic bag or glove with grease, the thickest/heaviest you have and cover/seal the distributor.
Pack all connectors on starter motor in as thick a layer of grease as possible, however, you cannot do this with your alternator as it needs to breath."
Many greases conduct electricity, so not a good idea.

FAN
"The engine driven fan will hurl huge quantities of water around the engine bay, therefore, tie up the viscous unit so the fan doesn't rotate;"
Again not a good idea, fan could engage prior to entering water. Also very cold temperatures can also cause fan to engage. In other areas you suggest disconnecting the fan belt, if this is done there is no need to stop fan from turning.

BRAKES
"make sure that your brakes are reasonably cool before entering the water. Cold water on hot rotors will destroy them."
Very unlikely.

RECOVERY GEAR.
"If you have a winch, ensure that you have pulled out sufficient cable and secured it in such a manner, that should you stall in deep water, you can get access to it without have to dive underwater looking for it. If you don’t have a winch, secure your snatch strap or tow rope accordingly. This is assuming you are not on your own."
Nothing wrong with this, but needs to be very secure. Otherwise the water current could drag the cable or strap under the vehicle or anywhere else.

SETTING OFF

WATER LEVEL – ABOVE THE AXLES
"Maintain a steady forward pace, enough to create a nice bow wave. If it appears that a bow wave cannot be maintained due to lost forward motion, immediately switch off the engine if possible before the engine stops."
Do not know why you would do this. Just because you don’t have a bow wave is not a reason to switch off the motor.

"Do not change gears once in the water (Manual transmissions). Water will get into the clutch and although still in gear, the vehicle will not move." "If the selected gear is too high and stalling is inevitable, then a gear change must be attempted."
These statements are contradictory. The first statement states that you will not move if the clutch gets wet and the second states that you can change gears if you have to. Clutches not re-engaging is usually only an issue in mud.

"Be aware that in deep water the vehicle will partially or even totally float. This greatly decreases traction, and may make it difficult, or impossible to climb up a muddy or rocky bank on the far side. You may need to open the door and let water into the vehicle to decrease the buoyancy and allow traction."
If you are at the bank on the other side and attempting to climb out, at least some wheels will be on the ground. Also the bank is usually the shallowest and the least likely spot to be floating. Again if the water is that high that you are floating, the water level inside the car would kill all the electrics and the car would stop anyhow.

"If you have to get across deep water in an emergency, you may increase your chances if you drive across backwards (fit an extension hose over the exhaust pipe, as already mentioned). The wake created tends to keep water out of the engine compartment. Drive as fast as possible and do not lift your foot off the gas, or water could flood the exhaust pipe and stall the engine"
Contradictory statements again. States to put extension onto exhaust and then states to keep the revs up to keep the water out of the exhaust. Can’t see how this method could be better than a shroud over the front. When going backwards the water is going to hit the radiator area at the front of the engine bay and raise the water level in the bay.

"In deep water, your alternator, if it fills with water will stop charging the battery and the dash red charge light will come on. This will go away when you are back on dry ground. The alternator will work again once it dries, but you may find after a period of time that the bearings will need replacing."
Bearings are usually sealed and have grease in them. The risk of damaging the bearings is remote. I regularly hose out my alternator and have not had any bearing problems.

WHEN YOU GET ACROSS

"Drain all the oil from your gearbox."
Why? You don’t know that water got in.

"If you have had water ingress, fill with new oil and run your motor for a short while. Change the oil again. This may need to be done more than two, three or more times."
Changing it twice would be more than adequate. More than that is a bit of an overkill.


SIGNS TO LOOK FOR:-

"Rivers fed by melting snow will be at their lowest and slowest level at daybreak."
This would depend on how far away you are from the snow that was actually melting. It takes some time for the water to travel across ground and into a river that is that large that you are worried about the river height.

"If driving straight across a fast flowing river, the rear end of the vehicle will be pushed faster. Be prepared to turn the front wheels in the direction of the “slide”. If this does not solve the problem, accelerate slightly. If the vehicle continues to turn, facing up stream, put it into reverse and try to reverse up to either bank. Going forward is not an option in such circumstances."
Cant follow the logic in this one. If driving forward causes the back to swing around, driving backwards would force the front to swing around.

WHEN YOU GET ACROSS

"If water gets into the computer (ECU), or other electrical components, strip it down as much as possible, spray with WD40 or similar water displacement spray or use compressed air."
Should not use WD40 on electronic components. Only use electrical contact cleaner, It evaporates with no residual left.


SNOW
Before setting out:-

"Fit chains all round."
Only required on icy roads. Not required for driving on normal snow.

"Avoid compacted tracks, as these will be iced up."
Compacting the snow is the only way to drive in deep snow. You should never spin the wheels on deep snow as it will dig you down. You stop and back up on your own tracks to compact the snow further and then try going forward again. In fresh powder snow, you will have to do this repeatedly to continue going forward.

"It can freeze the engine solid, even if it is running and ruin the motor within minutes."
Have you heard of this ever happening while the motor is running. Even in Siberia they only heat the oil to get the car started, not while it is running.

"Snow freezes up during the night, so after midnight, travel over snow is easier."
Driving on frozen snow is more hazardous that soft snow. We leave our trips until the snow has had a chance to soften.

SIDE SLOPES
"Tyres with an aggressive tread are an advantage."
Most “aggressive” tyres have large lugs which cause poor sideways grip.

"If the hill is wet or muddy, fit chains."
Only diamond pattern chains are likely to give any side grip. Ladder chains would cause less side grip.

"If you are faced with a dangerous situation and forward travel is the only option, find an anchor point uphill (tree, large rock etc), and in front of the vehicle, and winch (if fitted) along with the gear box in neutral. Without the wheels driving there is less risk of sliding sideways."
The gearbox should never be in neutral. Would take too long to engage gears again if the cable snapped. You would put the clutch in if anything.

SAND DRIVING
"Descend sand hills slowly, low range 2nd, straight down and do not use the brakes as this could cause a roll over. If the vehicle noses in, change to low 3rd, with your foot on the brake and accelerator at the same time."
It always depends on the situation, but as a general rule, you should drive down the dune to prevent sand build up in front of the wheels. On the steep longer hills, high 1st is an appropriate gear.

"Never use the brakes except in an extreme emergency."
Again this is a bit of an overstatement. Using brakes is fine, just don’t do hard braking.

"If the tyre pressure is decreased by 25% (25 psi), speed should not exceed 48 km/h (30 m/h). If the tire pressure is decreased by 40% (20 psi), speed should not exceed 19 km/h (12 m/h). Exceeding these speeds at low pressure can cause the tires to leave the rim."
These statements are over cautious in regard to speed. Have travelled for several hundred kilometres in soft sand at 15 PSI at speeds up to 100 KPH without any ill effects. Low pressures will cause a tyre to get hot, it takes some sort of sidewards knock to take the tyre off the rim. Tyre manufacturers have stated that you can take a tubeless tyre down to 16 PSI without the risk of the tyre coming off the rim.

ROCKS
ASCENDING
"If air conditioning is on, turn it off."
Why?

"If the vehicle cannot continue to climb, try turning the steering wheel from side to side;"
This can work in dirt and mud, but has no effect on rocks.

"If your vehicle stalls, select a lower gear; engage the hand brake and release it, as the clutch is slowly released."
This is dangerous. Always secure the vehicle with hand and foot brakes before attempting to change gear.

"If the vehicle (manual transmission) has stalled and forward travel looks unlikely, engage the foot brake, and then reverse gear (low range), apply the hand brake;"
Again, both brakes should be applied before changing gear. Check what you wrote on the hill stall procedure.

"then come off the brakes. Slowly release the hand brake and then turn on the ignition and reverse ‘squarely’ back down. Keep off the brakes and clutch!"
You should warn people that most modern motors are designed to rev up when started, this will give a racing start to the descent. Should keep foot likely on brakes to dampen the initial surge and then use the brake in the same way as you list for descents.

"On solid rock, be aware that the steering will be hard. If a corner or sharp bend needs to be negotiated, switch off your front lockers (if fitted), and if necessary the rear as well."
Turning with lockers is generally only an issue where there is little or no grip. On solid rock, this should not be so much of an issue.

HILL STALL RECOVERY

"The Hill Stall Recovery does not apply to automatic vehicles as they should not stall, just lose forward drive when the hill becomes too steep for the gear selected."
The hill stall technique is to be used when you wish to stop on a hill and reverse back down. There is a version for an auto, the only difference in the technique is that you don’t stall the car and you don’t start it in gear.

DESCENDING.

"If your vehicle jumps out of gear, stop, before putting it back into gear."
Any time that the car is in neutral is very dangerous. Stopping may be difficult on a steep hill. The person is already in the worse position they can get, so putting it back into gear before stopping is not going to make anything worse, but could make things better quicker.

"On steep rocky descents, select neutral, hard on brakes! (winch cable may be needed)."
How more dangerous do you want to get. The car should never be out of gear in such circumstances, people have been killed and seriously injured doing accidently what you suggest to do on purpose.

MUD
When you get to 'MUD' here's what you need to do:-

"If the mud can be walked over without breaking through, you’re in with a chance. If you stand on the mud and sink in your boots or ‘welllingtons’ there’s no chance for the vehicle (install chains)!"
If it is that soft, the worse thing you could do is install chains. You want to attempt to get across with the minimum amount of digging. Chains dig.

"Reducing tyre pressure can help in ‘bottomless’ mud whereas it can make things worse when a hard surface is below the mud"
How can it make it worse?

"Set up recovery gear before hand. Attach winch cable to a point on the bumper that’s going to be easily accessible."
Only ever attach recovery gear to rated recovery points.

"Select appropriate gear, usually 2nd or 3rd high range depending on the depth of the mud. Too low a gear will dig the tires into the mud."
In really soft mud, you do not want you tyres to dig, going slowly in your lowest gear can often aide in this. 2nd and 3rd is for when you want to blast through it. This works OK for short distances.

"If forward travel is a must and the mud is over a long stretch, deflate the tyres to around 20 psi, otherwise, fit chains. Do not fit chains to deflated tyres."
Why not fit chains to deflated tyres. When chains are fitted for use in mud, they should have some looseness in them. This is so that they can clean the mud out of them. Chains should only be used in slippery conditions (something with a firm base) not in soft mud. You do not want to dig in these places. In sand you have stated that 15 PSI is ideal, why are you only recommending 20 PSI in soft mud?

"If beginning to get stuck, swing the wheel from side to side, this works just as well in reverse."
This should only be used where there is a firm base. In other situation you will simply dig yourself further into trouble.

"If the wheels begin to spin, ease off the throttle."
This only applies to soft mud with no base. In most mud, spinning the wheels (not excessively) will help clear the mud from the tread and help dig to a firmer/drier surface.

"Descending very steep muddy inclines use:- low range, 2nd gear, chains on (if carried)."
Why not low first?

"Ascending steep muddy inclines use:- low range, 1st gear, diff lock on, lockers engaged (if fitted), chains on. Do not attempt these except in an emergency unless you have aggressive tyres."
Would need a higher gear than first to gain momentum, clear treads, and to dig to harder surface.

ASCENDING
FIRM GROUND - STEEP

"Normal tire pressure is okay."
Normal tyre pressure is not OK. Should always deflate tyres when off-road. If it is steep, you need as much grip as you can get.

SLIPPERY or LOOSE GROUND - STEEP
"More momentum."
Need to make sure that you don’t have too much power on as you could shock load the drive-train if it is a loose surface.

"Start in 2nd low to get moving, then double clutch (manual transmissions only) into the higher gears 3rd & 4th low."
As mentioned before, having a vehicle out of gear on a hill is one of the most dangerous situations off-road. If you have to change gears, make it happen as quickly as possible. With any synchro box, there is little or no benefit in double clutching. Double clutching slows down you gear change and increases the risk of stuffing up the change.

"Attaching chains may be required. Rear wheels if only one set is carried."
Chains should only be used where you want to dig.

"If the vehicle begins to slide backwards, immediately shift into reverse"
You are already in a bad situation with too much to think about, changing gears is highly likely to make the situation worse. Stay in a forward gear and keep the wheels turning quickly. There is a good chance that you will dig enough to stop the vehicle, at the very least you will be doing the maximum you can to slow your descent.


SLIPPERY – VERY STEEP

"Attach chains. Rear wheels if only one set is carried."
Chains destroy 4WD tracks. Also because of the difficulty in fitting and removing them, people tend to leave them on and destroy more track. Only ever use chains in an emergency.

"There can be a problem with lockers in that a locked front end can kick the vehicle to one side or other when traveling uphill. This is because the weight is on the rear end, and the front end is light. If the locked front wheels catch the edge of a ledge, or hit a patch of loose dirt, they can kick the vehicle sideways. When using lockers to get up a difficult hill, start out with the rear lockers engaged only. Once on the hill and the front wheels are biting well, engage the front lockers."
Never had this happen to me. You want to start the hill in the set-up you believe you need to make the hill. You need to make sure that your wheels are not spinning before engaging the locker and the only reason to engage it would be that your wheels are spinning. This would mean that you would have to stop to engage and you have then wrecked your chances of making it.

DESCENDING
DESCENDING – ROCKY – STEEP

"Ensure that your tyres are up to the task. Aggressive treads do best."
Less aggressive treads often do best on rocks.

DESCENDING – MUDDY-STEEP

"If the ruts are too deep, try running with just one set of tires in a rut, if the trail is wide enough."
This is the quickest and most common way of rolling a car. If you only have one wheel in the ruts, it means that the other wheel is on the side of the track. With muddy hills, the depth of the track and ruts compared to the side of the track can change quickly. It is difficult to get out of the rut once you are in. This can mean that the wheel in the rut gets too low compared to the side of the track and the car goes over.

DESCENDING – EXTREME DESCENTS

"Sometimes a hill is so steep that you will begin sliding down and low gear is too low. The tyres begin sliding because they are not rotating fast enough to keep traction and control. In this case, it is best to shift into 2nd or 3rd low, depress the clutch pedal (if manual transmission), and ride the brake. If you get into trouble, you can momentarily ease out the clutch and use power to straighten out. You need a good touch on the brakes, you don’t want to start a skid; just enough to slow down."
This advice is scary stuff, it goes against everything you will be taught in any 4WD course. It is an accident waiting to happen.

BOG HOLES

"Steady power and momentum must not be lost. If you begin to get stuck, swing the steering wheel from side to side."
"If the wheels spin, ease off the throttle."
These two points are contradictory. One states to spin the wheels and swing them from side to side, the other states not to spin the wheels. You spin wheels when you think digging will getting you out and don’t spin wheels where digging will get you further into trouble.

RECOVERY FROM A BOG HOLE

"When bogged, it is possible to lift the rear end (HiLift Jack, Air Bag Jack etc), and slew the vehicle sideways. This can result in a better position for grip. If forward movement looks unlikely, reverse out."
Using a highlift jack in mud is impractical and dangerous. They will sink in mud and not lift the car. They are unstable and dangerous items to use in the best of places, in mud you are asking for trouble.