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[MPi-KMS-72]

Originally Posted by onslow

DOT3 is fine in any LR product it will NOT affect seals in anyway the DOT system is only a way of grading performance,hence DOT 2 and DOT 3 fluids where the original grades used by landrover so mixing them is fine just be carefull with some fully synthetic oils as previously stated and some vehicles like old jaguars used a special mineral oil which is to be avoided (not easy to come by anymore anyway)

You would think so but
no that is actually not true- at least here in the USA. They are performance grades not compositional gradings. Generic USA DOT3 can and has wreaked havoc with Series Land Rover seals here in the USA for many years. This might be an issue only with USA DOT 3. I don't know about UK DOT3 products but I do know I've seen seals left in samples of different fluid and the US DOT 3 was clearly not compatible. Like all things it might vary by brand of fluid, and by the composition/source/brand of the seals. A well meaning friend of mine happened to fill my resevoir with Walmart "tech" brand DOT3 last summer and my clutch hydraulics took a crap shortly thereafter. I've known many other people who have run into the same problem so there definately have been some compatibility issues.

BRAKE AND CLUTCH FLUID:
Castrol LMA or other DOT 4 brake fluid

Change interval: Once a year on an average.

TIP: DOT 4 brake fluid is hygroscopic. This means it will absorb moisture that will damage brake components. In very damp climates or with extended deep wading the brake fluid should be changed more often to achieve maximum service life from brake and clutch hydraulic systems. You would not need to change the fluid as often in arid climates.

TIP: Brake fluid is very corrosive on paint. Take care not to spill brake fluid on a painted surface. If some spills clean it up immediately and wipe with a wet cloth to dilute any residues.

TIP: Castrol LMA brake fluid was designed to work with your rubber hydraulic components and provide maximum trouble free service life. However any DOT 4 brake fluid will work. You should not use DOT 3 brake fluid in your system.

DOT5, or Silicon brake fluid will work properly in your Land Rover's hydraulic systems but do NOT mix it with any other hydraulic fluid. It has the advantage of not being corrosive to paint or hygroscopic. The disadvantages of using DOT 5 brake fluid are expense and that it can carry tiny air bubbles in the fluid for a long time. This can make the hydraulic systems very hard to bleed for a reliable hard pedal.

TIP: If you should decide to convert from DOT 4 hydraulic fluid to DOT5 fluid you must replace all the rubber parts of the brake system. The different types of brake fluids affect rubber components differently. A seal that has been immersed in DOT4 (or DOT3) fluid will almost always leak when later immersed in DOT5 fluid.

The best time to switch over is when your old brake system is tired and in need of new master and wheel cylinders. Don't to forget to replace the flex hoses at the same time.

http://www.britishpacific.com/series...Rovertech.html

Brake fluid
• Castrol LMA ** use DOT 4 fluid only — not the more common DOT 3

http://www.robisonservice.com/servicedep/rover_tips.asp

Remember- USE CASTROL LMA GTX or other DOT4 eq. or better brake fluid, NOT DOT3 in your British car! DOT4 should be changed every 2 years.
DOT5, Silicon is OK too. I'm currently running some long term tests on it, with good results. It should perform much better for a low usage or stored vehicle as it won't absorb water, and therefore should result in very low corrosion levels. DOT4 may be preferable for high use, or competition vehicles.

http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/Drivetra...Operation.html

The original brake cylinders used natural rubber in the seals. When Series Rovers were new, owners were strongly cautioned to use only Castrol/Girling LMA, a vegetable-based fluid. Any other fluid would deteriorate the seals, resulting in loss of braking. Girling eventually changed to a neoprene seal which is compatible with modern, glycol-based brake fluid. As long as the entire system has the modern neoprene seals, a DOT 3 or DOT 4 fluid can be used. Unless you have some old parts fitted or in the kit box, you don't have to use vegetable-based fluids (Castrol/Girling LMA) anymore. I use DOT 4 brake fluid.

http://www.bayourovers.com/trick14.html

From: David Cockey <dcockey@tir.com>
Subject: Re: Dot4

Mike Johnson wrote:

> >Don't ever, ever, ever use ANYTHING other than the Castrol girling
> juice
> >of the gods.... the other stuff will rot your rubber inards on the
> whole
> >brake system..
> Another chapter from the book of urban myths. But to each their own I
> suppose. People feel a sort of religious attachment to certain
[ truncated by list-digester (was 11 lines)]
> Champion spark plugs, oil, oil filters, octane grades, tires and so
> on.

Maybe folklore, as in has a basis in fact. I've heard for 20 years or
more that Girling uses/used a different type of rubber than most other
brake part makers which is incompatible with the usual North American
brake fluid. The Castrol is compatible. I also thought DOT 3 vs. DOT 4
is a matter of boiling point, etc, and don't know if the Castrol
formulation is needed to get the DOT 4 pertformance or if Castrol just
happens to be DOT 4 also. Silicon brake fluid is supposed to also be
compatible with Girling rubber. However, the usual folklore is don't mix
silicone and non-silicone brake fluid. Again, just because it is
folklore doesn't mean it is false.

One potential incompatiblity of silicone is with hydraulic brake light
switches as used in pre-67 vehicles. An item in the US British car mag a
few years ago claimed that the hydraulic pressure switches have
electrical contacts exposed to the fluid. Supposedly minor arcing can
occur each time the contacts open and this causes the problem.

Regards,
David Cockey

Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:03:39 -0500 (EST)
From: David Scheidt <david@math.earlham.edu>
Subject: Re: Dot4

On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, David Cockey wrote:

> Mike Johnson wrote:
> > >Don't ever, ever, ever use ANYTHING other than the Castrol girling
> > juice
> [ truncated by lro-lite (was 11 lines)]
> Maybe folklore, as in has a basis in fact. I've heard for 20 years or

more that Girling uses/used a different type of rubber than most other
brake part makers which is incompatible with the usual North American
brake fluid. The Castrol is compatible. I also thought DOT 3 vs. DOT 4
is a matter of boiling point, etc, and don't know if the Castrol
formulation is needed to get the DOT 4 pertformance or if Castrol just
happens to be DOT 4 also. Silicon brake fluid is supposed to also be
compatible with Girling rubber. However, the usual folklore is don't mix
silicone and non-silicone brake fluid. Again, just because it is
> folklore doesn't mean it is false.

Girling components are said to contain a higher amount of natural rubber
than american stuff. (The folklore about that is the British wanted to
support the colonial rubber industry.) DOT 3, DOT 4 and DOT 5 are
standards about performance, not content. DOT 3 and DOT 4 are both almost
exclusivly glycol or glycol-ether based, depending on brand. DOT 5 stuff
is silicone, though there is said to be a glycol based DOT 5. The
differences are mostly the boiling points of the stuff (from memory, don't
shoot me if I wrong:

Dot 3 dot 4 dot 5
dry boiling pt 400 448 500
wet 285 310 356
). If your brake fluid boilds, the bubbles are compressable, which goes
the sort of spongyness we all know and love. It should be noted that
these are american standards. (Lucas-)Girling have a seperate set of
standards, which cover not only boiling point, but also things like how
quickly they eat the seals. So there are DOT-3 fluids that won't eat
brake components, and DOT-4 that will. If the can or spec sheet says that
it meets all Girling standards, then you are probably safe. Castrol
GT-LMA meets these standards, so you should be able to use it with no
problems. So does the Prestone Super-Heavy duty fluid, which I have never
used.

Silicone brake fluids are a different kettle of fish. Silicone is pretty
inert, so your seals are safe. Silicone is also not hyrdoscopic (doesn't
absorb water), so you will have less corrosion of pistons, cylinder walls,
and bleed screws. It also doesn't need to be changed as often, partially
off-setting its much higher cost. (About US$15 a litre, as opposed to
US$5/litre for GTLMA) The problem with silicone fluids is they are very
slightly more compressable than the glycol based stuff. The
compressablity also increases with temperature, indpendently of actual
boiling. No one seems to use silicone fluids in high performance
situations any longer, due to these concerns. They are also not
recommended for ABS-equippped vehicles for this reason. (But also because
they are expensive, so no one uses them, so manufactures don't test with
silicone, so don't want to risk a lawsuit.) There is probably not much
reason not to use silicone fluids in Series truck, other than it is quite
expensive. Drain, flush with isopropyl alchol, and dry with dry
compresed air. Replace all of the rubber bits, which makes the fluid look
cheap, but this is necesary to make sure that you don't have any gylcol
fluid in the system.

Brake fluids are essentially miscible, so don't need to worry too much
about mixing types. However, if you put any glycol-based in a silicone
system, you are adding water (or the potential for water), which is why
you are using silicone in the first place, right? If you have to get
home, though, it is not going to cause a catastrophic failure.

I should add the usual disclaimers: I am not an qualified expert on brake
fluid, hydraulics, or most things automotive. I also use nothing but
Castrol GTLMA. It is religion folks, not science.

Regards,

David/mr. sinclair (with all new rubber hydraulics since september)

http://www.fourfold.org/RoverWeb/lro...971207.html#12

From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Nov 2 11:35:37 1992
Return-Path: <twakeman@apple.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 09:26:09 -0800
From: Teriann J. Wakeman <twakeman@apple.com>
To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Subject: Re: Brakes need pumping for good stop !!

You need DOT4 brake fluid. Castrol LMA does the job. You need this fluid
because the British empire included a number of colonies that produced
natural rubber. Several trade agreements later, your Land Rover brake hoses
were made of natural rubber. DOT3, the slightly cheaper more common
variety destroys your rubber brake hoses.

As an asside, you really should flush out your brake & clutch hydrolics
one a year. Brake fluid is hydroscopic & the water it picks up can corrode
the hydrolic pistons.

You might spens some time looking for leaks around the cylinders. If you fix
the softness and it comes right back, suspect the master cylinder.

As long as you keep the rubber side down, and fluid in the resivour there is
no angle that should let air into your brake line.

TeriAnn

Series II 109

http://www.fourfold.org/RoverWeb/lro...1992/9211.html