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[p76rangie]

As you are not going to go away, lets deal with a few of your points

Originally Posted by 1hank1

So, if both wheels are turning at “exactly” the same rate of speed, and the Detroit locks back together, this causes “shock load”? If two gears mesh perfectly together at a timed, in sequence motion, how can this cause “shock load”? If what you’re saying is true, each time the gear box shifts gears it causes “shock load” on the gear box, t-case, drive shafts, diffs, axles, and drive flanges.

Now, I could see that if one wheel is turning wildly and you try to engage the second wheel from a stopped or reduced speed into the works. Yes, that would cause some serious shock to the components.

You just answered your own question. What causes the DT to relock? The other wheel losing traction losing traction an starting to spin. The wheel taht was unlocked only did so because it had traction. So you have a wheel starting to spin, and the DT starting to spin and then it suddenly comes into contact with an axle going slower with good traction. That it hits with a bang.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

This is why the ARB locker explodes when locked at speed; you’re trying to jam two parts together at two different rates. It’s much like jamming 1st gear at 50mph – something has to give.

An ARB locker can be engaged at ANY speed without going bang. What you can't do is engaged it when one wheel is spinning madly.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Here you claim that the Detroit twists axles. This, again, is only half true. Yes, a Detroit places additional stress on axles shafts. This is not limited to just Detroit lockers, though. This is the case with ANY locking diff. It’s the same with an ARB, Lincoln locker, or a Detroit.

In addition, “driving through one wheel: is not what is causing the twists in the axles. It’s the additional stress.

An ARB or selectable diff lock is an open diff when not locked. That is it drives through both axles. A DT cannot drive through both axles unless it is locked. It is only locked when going in a straight line on an even surface. The only time an ARB will drive through one axle is when it is locked and a wheel is off the ground. So a DT drives through a single axle a far portion of its life on and off the road. Therefore it stresses and twists axles more.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Furthermore, this is not the case in all axle shafts. My axles shafts are made if 1541H; Maxi-Drive, I think, uses 4140. If it’s not 4140, it’s probably 300m, but I doubt it. Either way, 4140 or 300m both are designed to twist under pressure. This goes back to the waisted axle design I explained to you in this thread.

This is just a side track! A DT will stress an axle more. ANY axle more. There are many brands of axles out there made of many types of material. Some will handle the stress better than others.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Here, you fail to understand the basic principle of the LT-230. You attempt to let on that the LT-230 sends power to the rear axle 100% of the time while in normal driving conditions. This is just plain and simply not true.

If the transfer case is not locked, it is an open diff. This is why I posted how an open diff worked.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

The LT-230 takes the path of least resistance. You know full well that the inside rear tire of a Detroit equipped vehicle is under pressure while in a turn on the highway. Pressure = resistance. The front end will drive the Rover through the corner and send virtually no power at all to the rear pinion. This is the reason people never know the Rover has a Detroit locker installed on the highway. Here, the rear drive shaft is allowed to spin freely and wildly as the tire turns the axle that turns the diff that turns the pinion………..

Again look up how a open diff operates. I did not post the definitions for the sake of it. It was to answer this stupid points from a person that does not know how a diff works.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

This is a lot more common in a 5-speed vs. an auto gearbox.

Do you want to explain this theory further.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

What are you driving, your Rover? There is always power to your rear pinion when driving? Shit, why the hell do you need a diff lock on the t-case then? For looks?

Again, learn how a diff operates. I do not know about you, but I do not use the diff locks on the road.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Only if the t-case is locked, Ian. Normally this statement is incorrect.

…….path of least resistance.

Again, learn how a diff operates.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Why would this happen? Because there is power to the pinion when making a turn with the t-case locked? If one wheel were allowed to slip in every case, like the manual states, why would the DT push your front end?

It mainly attempts to push you in a straight line when there is not sufficient traction to unlock properly. That is, very wet roads, Snow, Ice, Dirt roads, etc.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

So now the Detroit unlocks fully? Which is it, Ian? You state that the DT only unlocks the faster moving tire, yet here you allude to the DT free-spooling. Free-spooling would only be a case if there were not power to the pinion – meaning the t-case is unlocked.

Are you serious? The DT is "Unlocked" when one axle is disengaged. It can't unlock both axles and I have never stated this.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

This would be normal in a part-time 4wd truck with a DT in the front and the hubs locked. The axles still turn. But, you can select 2wd (rear wheel drive) and turn the vehicle. There is no power to the front pinion, from “engine braking” or otherwise. The DT then free-spools. There is no power to the pinion.

Once 4wd is selected again, and power is restored to the pinion, the vehicle then becomes hard to turn. In other words, when there is power to the pinion, the DT is locked.

I am not sure what you are getting at here. If you read the manual you will see that it states that under deceleration, it is the slower moving wheel that "unlocks" So on a "Uneven Surface" going down a hill under engine braking, only the faster moving wheel is engaged. This will not supply as good a engine braking as having two wheels proving traction.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

This is a place you really contradict your self. Here you say “only on a dirt road”. You then confirm this here in this post:

….then you say here something different…..

….again, you can read the stuff but still not understand what you’re reading. The wheel may loose traction on pavement, in dirt, on-road, off-road, or on the moon. When the drive tire loses traction (spins faster), it will lock the diff.

You are really grasping at straws here. I say in two statements that the thing is more likely to stay locked on a dirt road due to the drive wheel losing traction when the faster moving axle attempts to disengage. Then I state that it may also happen on a sealed road if you apply enough power.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

If you enter a turn under power, the DT is not going to unlock. It may try to unlock, but you’ll end up getting under-steer and the rear end will try to slide out from under the vehicle. This causes the wheel to slip and the DT to re-lock.

Obviously most people don't drive like you. You would have to have a fair amount of power down and on a road with marginal traction. Even with the centre diff unlocked and one rear axle unlocked, the power is still going to 3 drive wheels in rover vehicles built in the last 30 years. Again, learn how a diff operates. If you are talking about part time 4WDs like Jeeps, it will all depend on what motor they have, what tyres they have, and what the road surface is like.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Wrong again, Ian. ARB’s do need HD axles to last.
Yes, the chances of busting a diff are slim if the axles break – unlike the Detroit – but it’s still a locker. It still needs HD shafts. This is just a no brainer.

So exactly how many years have you run standard axles with ARB lockers? Thats right, none. So don't talk to me about what an standard axles will handle. I ran 10 splines with lockers for many years. I had a 4.4 running through axles designed for a 3.5. I had an auto box running axles designed for a manual. An auto increases the torque applied to the axles by two fold. The final straw was when I increased the torque being applied to the axles by a further 17% by putting in 4.11's. So don't even start to suggest that you know what standard axles will handle. Even ARB states that 24 spline standard axles are fine with their lockers. They do not like the 10 spline axles as the bearings have a smaller inside diameter. This means that the diff centre is weaker and they have been know to crack. It is all covered in their website.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

If what you say is correct, you would be able to lock your t-case, jack up the rear end of your truck, and spin both rear tires forward at the same time the gear box is in reverse and under power. It’s not going to happen, Ian.

Neither tire can or will unlock in this case. Both tires are allowed to spin faster then the ring gear (pinion) at the same time. If that were so, you would have no engine breaking at all. Period. That would also mean that in a part-time t-case truck, while in 2wd, you would have zero engine braking. That would mean when you downshift a 5-speed, on the street or elsewhere, the vehicle would not slow down. That would mean if you take your foot off the accelerator, the truck would maintain speed.

In other words, you’re wrong, again.



Wrong again, Ian.

A locker, “normal” or not, is placing more strain on the components. Remember “engine braking”? Now, with a locker, are one or two axles being strained when engine braking? Is one or two axles locked together, going to place more, or less, stress on U-joints? Is one, or two axles locked together, easier to turn when in contact with the ground?

I do not have a clue what you are talking about here.