Diesel with starter handle

[handcrank]

I am looking to build up a defender that I can use on and off road based on a diesel. It occured to me that the most frequent problem with modern motors is the electrics. I thought I would try to revert to the days when you could start a diesel with no electric source. I am after a diesel engine that is robust and can be started with a starting handle but not too old that getting parts becomes a problem. I am prepared to adapt engine compartment if necessary. I would also expect a starter motor to do the job on days I don't feel so fit. Please don't respond saying it is a stupid thing to look for as you are certainly entitled to your opinion but I just don't think it is very nice to go around insulting others. Constructive criticism welcomed obviously.

Does anyone know the best diesel for the job or have an opinion that may help me?

Thanks in anticipation. I am new to this game so don't know what these icon thongs are all about. I like the one that looks like a pint of Guiness. Cheers.

[KevinNY]

What country are you in?

[TerryS]

Your idea has a few basic flaws, but the concept of building a truck away from known problems is good.
A.)The starting circuit, i.e. battery, solenoid, starter, is perhaps the least problematic electrical system of the vehicle.
B.) Diesels are compression ignition, and, as such, have compression ratios considerably higher than spark ignition gasoline engine. Even single cylinder diesels have a compression release to allow handcranking.
C.) Diesel fuel ignition is very temperature related. You will find that the colder the outside temp (and cylinder temp), the more revs it's going to take before it fires. Using aids such as ether is OK on many diesels, but is generally known for preignition. You do not want to be on the other end of a handcrank when that happens.

Only on the lightest duty of diesels will you see a starter motor of similar size to the one on a gas engine of equal displacement. Almost always, the starter is larger, to resist kickback from predetonation when cranking (apart from the obvious that the compression is so much higher, the starter needs to be a higher HP.)
Bump starting a diesel in any gear below 3rd is a great way to snap an input shaft, or layshaft in a gearbox.

[handcrank]

Thank you very much for your considered response.
I have only had petrol Range Rovers to date and am a bit nieve about diesels as is obvious.
Perhaps you could identify the best diesel to use which is least dependent on electrics other than the essentials. I have moderated my opinion so as to minimise what goes on the vehicle with acceptable risk rather than reduce to minimum regardless.

Regards.

[TerryS]

Kevin's question as to what country you live in is pertinent since you want an engine readily available, and one where parts are also available. If you're in the US, telling you to go with a 300 Tdi, my first choice, wouldn't meet the readily available requirement since neither the engine nor spares were sold here. They can be had, but often at scalpers prices. If you're in the UK, or any other part of the world where Land Rover commonly supplies in diesel form, then 'building' one, as you say you would like to do, is simply buying one, and modifying it to suit your needs.
Building one using a Land Rover engine negates the tedious problems associated with mating it to a gearbox/transfer case, bolting it in, plumbing the fuel, water and exhaust systems, and not having to cut, chop, and otherwise punch out body panels. Whatever course you take, start with componants in the very best condition your wallet will afford. There's little to be gained by going to all the trouble of sourcing and buying all the bits and bobs onto a frame that will need surgery or replacement in a year or two.
If money isn't an issue, go for the engine that fits, the 2.8 TGV International, made in Brasil. It's based on the 300 Tdi block, though 300 cc larger. The secret to it's success is the variable vane turbo.

[handcrank]

Thanks for the explanation. I am in the UK but do want parts to be available Europe and North Africa.
I wouldn't say money is no problem but I would rather take longer to aquire than buy cheap and pay the price later. I don't like waste though so don't fancy buying an expensive base vehicle to throw half of it away or not appreciate the cosmetics. I am happy to have an old base and spend more enhancing it.

I know this is a massive subject and there are many options.

The reason I was thinking of building was to know the condition of most parts of it. I take your point in general and would take the approach of buying a base vehicle nearest to my desires from which to start. I want the engine, transmission and the suspension to be the things I spend money on to get the right ones and if money is short I will compromise on the rest.

Thanks for the engine recommendation - I will do some investigation.

Any thoughts on transmission? I have been spoiled with automatics on the Range Rovers which have worked very well both on and off road. I do not know what are suitable for the diesel engine you recommend. Again your opinion would be appreciated.

Thanks. Sorry of I rattle on a bit too much but am new to this game.

[TerryS]

It sounds to me that you are taking the correct approach.
The Gbox most always supplied would be the R380 5 speed with a 1.4:1 LT230 transfer case. Auto Defenders would only have been the NAS '97 D90 model, not likely to turn up in the UK. If you decided to go the auto box route, you can easily put in a ZF4 from a Rangie, but the bellhousing would be different, as would the flywheel. ( I am not sure about the flexplate, and torque converter for the 300 Tdi, but I would guess there is one, as there were plenty of Diesel auto Range Rovers. The rear transmission mount crossmember is different also, none of which are showstoppers. The transmission oil cooler for the R380 won't be sufficient for a ZF, so you would have to add the extra cooler from a Rangie also. I would think you ought to find a good 3 door 110 from the eraly '90s pretty reasonably. A 3 door makes a better expedition truck unless you'll be having more than one passenger.

[handcrank]

Transmission recommendation looks good so far. Though autos have been good a good manual is right for this vehicle.
I have come across something I hadn't thought about though and would appreciate your thoughts on the matter - 2 wheel drive.

I thought that all land rovers were permanent 4WD. I don't have a clue about options available for optional 2WD. I would prefer it to be selectable from the cab if possible. How beneficial is it likely to be or is it just something more to go wrong? How bad will the handling be?

I was thinking of running on off-road tyres as I had them on a range rover and had good road handling. I appreciate this may be due to good suspension. I am not thinking of air suspension on the defender as there is more to go wrong, but was thinking of something like scorpion extreme.? I normally drive quite slow on the road but drive hard off road.

We have gone a long way from a starter handle but I have little appreciation of land rovers and appreciate your views. Just as a bit of explanation why I was thinking starter handle on a diesel was that I thought there was something that geared up the cranking of a diesel to make it doable. I think that is well forgotten now though.

Cheers.

[roverandom]

Even if you could turn over a diesel by hand you will still need the glow plugs to warm the combustion chamber and they are electric but as stated before the starting circuit is quite simple and least problematic. If I read your last post correctly you have already given up on the hand cranking a diesel idea. If you are in the UK and want a basic defender platform, tough as nails and running a diesel why not look for a ex MOD Land Rover ? The perkins diesel is a good unit and spares are no problem. Basic and easy to maintain/repair in the field is the Armys middle name. Beefed up frame and axles,24v electric's and a neaver ending supply of spare parts thanks to the British tax payer. They are no whippet on the road but you said that you don't drive very fast anyway. I think it would make a very good starting point for a build up as you don't have to bother swapping engines,axles, gearbox etc and you can put all the money you saved into outfitting your new ride the way you like it. EX-MOD Rovers don't have a automatic gearbox but if you want easy to fix and repair a manual would be best anyway. In fact, if I was still in the UK I may have just talked myself into another project I don't have have time for...!!! Huuummm, I wonder how much it is to ship a Rover to Canada? or maybe I should keep a eye on the local Auctions? Hope this helps you out.

[handcrank]

Thanks for that thought. I have tried to find out details of the perkins option with no joy so far. How old do I need to go to get one? I have only found one for sale through the net so far. The others may not have identified specifically a perkins engine. Does anyone know where I can get more details and even know best places to find them for sale as the net sometimes gives too many responses to filter through.
Thanks in avance.
Anyone any thoughts on best options for off road suspension and lift?
Cheers, Kim.

[roverandom]

Check out Crook brothers ( I know, it it sounds like a joke !) at www.crookbrothers.co.uk They are specialists in MOD veh for over 40 years and can outfit a Rover any way you want it. Or pick up a copy of Land Rover Owner International and look in the ad pages. The last copy I had must have had 5 or 6 different MOD surplus dealers. Talk to them as they will be able to give you exact info and pricing on MOD Rovers in the UK

[handcrank]

Thanks