Please Help! Auto to Manual Transmission - Land Rovers Only

IvanD90 · 05-31-2009, 09:07 PM

Hi, I'm 16, I've never worked with cars before, I just got a beautifulllllll 1997 D90 for my sixteenth (Willow Green, #152/300, LE, so amazing), and I am looking forward to learning to work with Ivan (that's the name of my car haha)

The only thing I don't loove about Ivan is that he's auto... it's my dream to drive a stick, and I think it would be a great way to start working with Ivan if I converted him myself.

I would really appreciate a list of parts, a general guide on how to go about doing this, and any advice you have! Thanks in advance :]

TerryS · 06-01-2009, 06:24 AM

As you might expect, there's the long answer, and the short answer.
The long answer is Yes, it can be done. You'll need to source an R380 manual gearbox, with correct transfer case ratio, find and install a clutch pedal box, and fool the ECU. Whether the transmiision crossmember needs to be relocated, I'm not sure. You won't have any difficulty selling off the ZF transmission and all the console bits for an auto, as there are more people wanting to make their manual into an automatic than the other way around.

This doesn't even address how badly you'll hurt the value of the truck, or whether an auto is a better offroader than a manual (which it is).

The short answer is call Copley Motor Cars, and swap your truck in on the best '95 NAS90 you can find, and put a bunch of cash in your pocket for the toys you'll no doubt want to add to your truck

IvanD90 · 06-01-2009, 11:10 AM

thanks terry all very helpful! however, trading in is not an option... if you or someone else would be patient enough to provide more information on making the switch I would be so grateful!

TerryS · 06-01-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvanD90

I'm 16, I've never worked with cars before

I'm willing to walk you through it, bolt by bolt, when it comes time to do it, but, and I mean no offense, the above are the first two of many reasons why I won't go into the details of such a switch just yet.

It seems like it was only yesterday, but in fact, more than a decade ago, that I had a 16 year old who was all gung ho on car projects, and to his credit, many eventually came to fruition, but there are others that died in their tracks for not thinking them through, or without the funds to make them a reality.

You need a good deal of wrench experience before you undertake a project like you're planning, or have plenty of ready helpers who do. The whole project, start to finish, and working full time, is a 30-40 hr job, when everything goe smoothly and you have all the parts on hand.

The alternative is that you take it to a shop, and pay dearly to have it done. the upside is it gets done, the down side is you don't learn anything, and you shell out alot of money.

You're very likely to decrease the value of the truck by about a quarter, but if you intend on keeping it (At 16, things change daily) that doesn't matter.

Here's a few of the major things you're going to need before you even twist one wrench:
Flywheel: Your's doesn't have one, only a flexplate and torque converter.
Complete clutch: Pressure plate, Friction Disc, and new throwout bearing.
Complete Clutch pedal box: This includes the master cylinder.
Clutch line, Flex line, and slave cylinder.
New Brake Pedal, pedal box is OK, but you need the narrow pedal.
R-380 Transmission, preferably with an LT-230 attached, Your's may be OK, ratio wise, but I think the output from the ZF is different than the output from an R380. You'll also need the V8 bellhousing for the R380.

Almost all of the above can be found used, but it may take awhile to find all the bits. New, and you will drop $4000 without batting an eye.

IvanD90 · 06-01-2009, 06:25 PM

I really can't thank you enough--you're advice is all extremely helpful. I know what people think when they hear I'm 16 trying to do this, but I learn quickly and I'm not afraid to ask someone else for help. After reading your advice, I definitely will find someone who has experience to work with me.

I also realize that the value of the car will decrease greatly, but I don't see this as a problem. You may not believe me since you don't know me at all, but I plan to hold on to this car as long as I possibly can.

So I get the sense that the first step would be to gather all the parts. I plan on reading the field manual for the D90 so that I know exactly how everything works. If you know of a place I can get that manual, that would also be great!

Again, thank you so much... I will probably be back with some more questions after I have found all the parts, and it's nice to know there's someone friendly and willing to help!

Kevin88RRC · 06-01-2009, 06:43 PM

Hey
The first step is to gather all the info you can. You can get the manual from Rovers North. Search this site, D-90.com & some others to find as much info as possible.

I like Terry's initial idea of trading with one from Copleys but you'll learn a boat load doing it yourself.

Is there a specific reason you want a manual trans? What do you intend to use Ivan for... daily or offroad?

IvanD90 · 06-01-2009, 07:01 PM

hey Kevin... thanks for the site! i'm printing out the workshop manual right now...

I want a manual trans because... and I know this might sound stupid... but I know it will change my driving experience and make me so much more connected with Ivan... hold the laughter

I'm scared ill get shot saying this, but to be completely honest Ivan will most likely be a daily car for at least a few years--maybe when I get out of college I can take the time to go offroading with him

IvanD90 · 06-01-2009, 08:21 PM

been doing some research... what is the difference between the LT230R Transfer box and the LT230T Transfer gearbox?

TerryS · 06-02-2009, 05:35 AM

LT230T is the transfer box used in '93, '94 & '95 Defenders. NAS110 used a 1.410:1 ratio, and the '94-95 D90s used a 1.214:1 ratio.

The '97 D90 used an LT230Q, which had a 1.211:1 ratio

I am not sure about the LT230R, it's input (auto vs manual) or it's ratio, but I believe thats from a Discovery or an early RR (pre Borg Warner) so it wouldn't be in my parts books.

What you need to look for is an LT230T. An R suffix may work if it's from a 5 speed disco, but you'll have to get that info from a Disco or Rangie person, I couldn't say.

IvanD90 · 06-02-2009, 09:04 AM

got it thanks... also do you know what type of ZF gearbox the 97' uses?

IvanD90 · 06-02-2009, 09:21 AM

also... suggestions for choosing genuine vs. proline brands? im looking on Rovers North - Land Rover Parts at the Best Prices right now

IvanD90 · 06-02-2009, 09:22 AM

sorry again... what type of slave cylinder and size of flywheel?

TerryS · 06-02-2009, 11:06 AM

You are very unlikely to find a used flywheel, so what you want to price out is a ERR5575, for 10.5" clutch. Paul Grant may have parted out a 5 speed disco, so check with him to see if he has a flywheel. (paulgrant@mac.com)
The slave used on the 110 is probably the same as the 5 speed D90, and is FTC5071.
Your automatic is a ZF4, FTC4969.
If you can find one cheap enough, maybe consider buying a junker '95,6 or 7 5 speed Disco since it's going to have almost everything you need.
You probably want to order the Defender parts book too. Even if you don't make the switch, it covers all years of the NAS Defenders.

IvanD90 · 06-02-2009, 03:41 PM

wow thank you for that reference!

I looked into the FTC5071 slave and found that the FTC5071 is for V8 LT77 while the FTC5072 is for R380 boxes... so should I be looking for the 5072 since I'm converting to the R380?

Please don't feel obliged to keep answering my incessant questions, although I am very grateful!

IvanD90 · 06-02-2009, 05:46 PM

also... should I be looking for parts that fit a Disco or a Defender (up to 95', or just '97s)?