Springs: retention or cones?

[Thor]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

300bhp, So what you are trying to say is that on a standard setup you can remove a spring without disconnecting the shock, LOL.

I've seen stock NAS D90's fail to reseat upon dislocation in the rear. HUGE pain to put back! Well in the moment it was.

[p76rangie]

Duncan, it depends on how long your springs are. The attached link lists many of the springs available for Land Rover products. You will see that they vary in length by several inches. Your extra ride height was most likely obtained through stiffer springs rather than longer springs. Therefore the uncompressed length of the spring could be the same or shorter than the standard spring. Therefore by dropping the shocks and not increasing the length of the springs has contributed to your springs dislocating.

http://members.shaw.ca/jbarge/springinfo.html

[Duncan]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

Duncan, it depends on how long your springs are. The attached link lists many of the springs available for Land Rover products. You will see that they vary in length by several inches. Your extra ride height was most likely obtained through stiffer springs rather than longer springs. Therefore the uncompressed length of the spring could be the same or shorter than the standard spring. Therefore by dropping the shocks and not increasing the length of the springs has contributed to your springs dislocating.

http://members.shaw.ca/jbarge/springinfo.html

Nice Link .
Thankyou.

[rovermech]

Myself I love the way my RTE suspension With RTE cones and rear ARB locker works. No complaints here.

[fivespddisco]

just my 2c

What most people dont understand is the Shock plays a huge part in this. if your shocks suck the unretainded truck will flop all over. ask how i know. so i went to retaind springs. this used the spring as a shock to slow the wheel dropping down. I did not like this set up ether. I need a better shock and was too cheep at the time. with the proper shock you can still have control over the truck and still get max travel.also the spring type is improtant . when you go off camber some springs will try to push you over.The one spring is pushing to get to its normal hight. You need the proper equiment to do the job right. but all in all shock are king for an unretaind set up. so i went with the Super shock and Slide cone springs. not cheep but it kicks ass.

just a pic of a tire doing nothing

Cheers

[p76rangie]

Fivespd, it does not look like you were getting anywhere in the photo. So was the wheel doing anything other than spin and wearing the bank away.

[fivespddisco]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

Fivespd, it does not look like you were getting anywhere in the photo. So was the wheel doing anything other than spin and wearing the bank away.

Your right

the truck is still there.


Cheers

[p76rangie]

It looks like you have spent a lot on your truck. Tyres would have been the first thing I would have replaced. It will help you from getting stuck next time. Sorry to hear that you were not able to get the car out. Wasn't all that recovery gear connected up.

[fivespddisco]

that truck is not mine. but it shows the cone / slide spring and the tire on the ground.

[p76rangie]

There was never any argument as to whether dislocation cones would allow the wheel to touch the ground. It is whether they allow any real traction.

[fivespddisco]

I understand what your saying BUT a tire on the ground is better then no tire agreed? lets start here

[300bhp/ton]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

300bhp, So what you are trying to say is that on a standard setup you can remove a spring without disconnecting the shock, LOL.

What the hell is your problem, I've said twice already that YES it can happen I even posted a sodding picture of one of the vehciles it happen too. It's my uncle vehicle and came 1st in class in this years National Trial CCV STANDARD vehicle class.

Apart from protection (as required to compete) it is 100% factory STOCK!!!!

Which bit of this do you not understand?

It is also accepted that the springs falling out is an issue. This is accepted by the Association of Land Rover Clubs (previously ARC) who run nearly every Land Rover off roading event in the country. They are affiliated with the MSA (Motorsports Assocation) who are the UK arm of the FIA.

[SCSL]

All right! Now we're getting somewhere with this thread. BBS, absent controversy, is like eating peanut butter with no jelly (I think that's 'jam' to my British friends).

So the next question is, given the popularity and wide usage of cones in the UK, why not so in the US and, apparently, in OZ? Just preference? Or is there something else going on? Another area to look, beyond Land Rovers, is the rock crawling scene in the US. Coilovers and retained springs are the rule; I can't think of a single exception I've seen. P76, what about the OBC? From what I have seen, those guys are running retained springs too?

[96owner]

ok befor this gos on i think i missed a lot from last i read this thread but has any ever seen a truck roll over becasue of cones?

as to whether dislocation cones allow any real traction i dont think its traction as much as stability becasue with retaners that wheel would be off the ground not having traction any way. sorry it this was aready covered

[300bhp/ton]

Originally Posted by SCSL

So the next question is, given the popularity and wide usage of cones in the UK, why not so in the US and, apparently, in OZ?

That I can't answer, except perhaps its just one of those things.

Land Rovers are the minority in the US as Jeep has a much bigger following. And as dislocation cones are very much a Land Rover thing.

Also dislocation cones are not the only thing thats not used in the US there are a whole host of items.

Such as parabolic leaf springs. These have been in existance for 30 years and have been proven to out perform standard leaf srpings in every disciplin.

However if go and speak to the YJ Wrangler guys they have never heard of them. And so far I have not seen a single US supplier. But everywhere else in the world they are accepted.

Originally Posted by SCSL

Another area to look, beyond Land Rovers, is the rock crawling scene in the US.

This is true and it's also true that rock crawling isn't as popular over here. However Scorpion Racing are pretty big into it and one of the people who helped develop the Extreme kit (the picture of the Orange Discovery) actually does a lot of rock crawling and uses their suspension for it. Much improved stability is one of the main things and benefits of dislocating coils.

Originally Posted by SCSL

Coilovers and retained springs are the rule;

Yeah but again goes back to Jeeps and such being the most popular vehicle in the US and their suspension is different from a Land Rovers.