Before I buy, MANY questions.

[skikir]

I have been toying about with the Idea of doing some serious off roading in my Oregon back yard. Since have been driving a Triumph TR6 for years as a daily driver I naturally look to Land Rover as the vehicle of choice. I have noticed that LR resale prices drop like a lead balloon after 5-6 years. Good for me. The theory goes; buy as good 7 year + LR under 100K miles for under $5K as I can get and use it as my "Safari Buggy" and let the dents begin.

I have a couple of questions.

1.. Which one? I’d love to have a 109 series IIA five door or a 109 defender but they are rare and expensive. Which leaves the rest. LR classics, Discos and Range Rovers. Which one is best off road and has most room for “stuff.”

2. What to look out for. I notice that almost all LRs for sale have things like rotors and brakes replaced, leaking steering boxes fixed, axels replaced etc. Many times I see “engine over heats” and I have heard not IF but WHEN will the head gasket will go. Is there an engine to avoid? Should I get a car that has had a lot of work done on it and figure that it is work that would have had to have done anyway and better to have had PO done it or get one that has never had problems and expect something to go wrong soon. Should I get one that’s been “pre disastered” or pay extra for one untouched? It seems like most Rover drivers are anal about maintenance and never use them as intended. Normally I don’t worry about things like this and am a good mechanic and have nursed more than one vehicle home but I could easily get 80 miles from absolutly nowhere and if the wilds didn’t kill me my wife would.

I have been cruising Craigslist for a while to get a feeling of what is out there in the PNW and have found things that sound good like estate sales or need to down size for family reasons etc. For instance I found a recent Craigs list post:

"1995 Land Rover Discovery V8i - $1700

Must Sell!!!
I am Selling the Car for what I owe on it.
THE CAR DOES NOT RUN!!!! I can't say for sure why, I believe it's in the cooling system.
The exterior is in great shape, the interior is a bit worn. There is a new outback Metal Grill with new Land Rover Lights (alone are worth $500.00)
I do not have the time or money to get it fixed so I am offering it at what I owe just to get it out of my driveway.
The parts alone are worth much much more than I am asking.
136,000 miles If you are interested please contact …"

The accompanying picture looks good and it’s a woman poster so it could be just a head gasket problem and a simple fix and I’d have a great off roader or it could be a toasted engine and a bag of fecies.

[300bhp/ton]

Originally Posted by skikir

1.. Which one? I’d love to have a 109 series IIA five door or a 109 defender but they are rare and expensive. Which leaves the rest. LR classics, Discos and Range Rovers. Which one is best off road and has most room for “stuff.”

The Defender is fairly new (early 1990’s) and is available in 90 and 110 formats (also 130 but rare and big.

The Defender is almost the same as the Ninty and One Ten (also 127) that where launched in the early 80’s.

In the States the Defender has only been sold in low volume, so you’ll probably have trouble finding many for sale or any at sensible money.

Older Series vehicles are available. But remember they are older (min 25 years old) with less creature comforts. They are also leaf sprung so generally ride harder and are arguably less capable off road (in stock trim anyhow). They also have less powerful engines.

However they can be an idea weekend toy.

Range Rovers and Discovery 1’s are essentially the same vehicle just different body work. Both very capable off road, but are bigger and bulkier (more over hang) than Series or Defenders. And in stock trim usually have smaller wheels. So a few mods would be advisable if you plan on anything more than moderate off roading.

They are however much more civilised and comfortable.

The Discovery II is slightly different, still based off of the same type of ladder chasis but it’s different and they contain more electronics. Quite capable stock but less rugged. The electronics could prove more problematic.

Originally Posted by skikir

2. What to look out for. I notice that almost all LRs for sale have things like rotors and brakes replaced, leaking steering boxes fixed, axels replaced etc. Many times I see “engine over heats” and I have heard not IF but WHEN will the head gasket will go. Is there an engine to avoid?

In the US the only engine option is the Rover V8 for any RR, Disco or Defender. Series would typically have either a 2.25 petrol or diesel engine.

The Rover V8 is very good and robust, but remember it’s origins are in the early 60’s as a Buick small block.

Land Rovers of any type require regular maintenance, this does not mean unrealiable. But you must maintain it to maintain reliability.

All Land Rovers, even the Discovery II are easy to work on at home and basically bolt together.

As for the head gasket issue, well there are several threads on this at the moment. It appears in the US guys are always replacing head gaskets, however it does appear that most of these are replaced when they are not actually needed.

Me and my immediate family have owned 9 Rover V8’s and I have close friends and relatives who also own them, so far I don’t know of any that have had to have a head gasket.

Originally Posted by skikir

Should I get a car that has had a lot of work done on it and figure that it is work that would have had to have done anyway and better to have had PO done it or get one that has never had problems and expect something to go wrong soon.

You’ll need to judge each car on it’s own merits. However if one vehicle has been reknown for issues then it might be worth avoiding it no matter how much money has been spent on it.

Originally Posted by skikir

I have been cruising Craigslist for a while to get a feeling of what is out there in the PNW and have found things that sound good like estate sales or need to down size for family reasons etc. For instance I found a recent Craigs list post:

"1995 Land Rover Discovery V8i - $1700

Must Sell!!!
I am Selling the Car for what I owe on it.
THE CAR DOES NOT RUN!!!! I can't say for sure why, I believe it's in the cooling system.
The exterior is in great shape, the interior is a bit worn. There is a new outback Metal Grill with new Land Rover Lights (alone are worth $500.00)
I do not have the time or money to get it fixed so I am offering it at what I owe just to get it out of my driveway.
The parts alone are worth much much more than I am asking.
136,000 miles If you are interested please contact …"

The accompanying picture looks good and it’s a woman poster so it could be just a head gasket problem and a simple fix and I’d have a great off roader or it could be a toasted engine and a bag of fecies.

This is a personal choice, if you are prepared to fix a vehicle then you can probably get yourself a great ride for a fraction of the price. However if it goes tits up you could end up spending way more than you need to.

[Greg S]

In Oregon there is a good Land Rover club centred in Portland.

It sound like you don't want to spend buckets of money so you have a choice of two; Discovery or Range Rover. Old Series Land Rovers in Oregon will be 1974 or older and probably cost more than you are wanting to spend. Defenders can be found in some years between 1994 and 1997. You can't afford them! They will be $20,000 to $25,000 dollars for a 90 and more for a 110 which IIRC was only brought in in 1994.

That leave Disco's and Rangies. Disco 1's are (help me here someone) older than 1999. Range Rover Classic's (RRC'S) are 1988 to 1995. I'm told the 95's have just a bit more electrics than one wants to battle with in an older vehicle. 94's are the first year with 23 (or is it 24) spline axles which are desirable but not mandatory. Disco 1 and RRC's share the same platform so the difference is styling. I think it was 94 that the RRC's went to the air suspension. This is GREAT but WILL cost you money(and lots of it) if you want to keep it that way. Many have converted these, quite reasonably, to coil springs. RR's 96 and newer are jam packed full of more electrical things than you can imagine. If you gas cap isn't on all the way you will get a "check engine" error code, and lots of little tid bits like that.

The best 4X4 off road at the time was a Range Rover and if you snap up a cheap 1988 thru early 90's, you will love it. I love my 1970 109 SW on leaf springs.

[pickuprover]

Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton

Older Series vehicles are available. But remember they are older (min 25 years old) with less creature comforts. They are also leaf sprung so generally ride harder and are arguably less capable off road (in stock trim anyhow). They also have less powerful engines.

However they can be an idea weekend toy.

300... I would dissagree on this point.... yes they ride harder, and have less powerful engine... but as for their performance offroad... if you drive them like they have a high horsepower engine, then no they are not as capable... but if you drive them like what they are.. they will go head to head with any other rover. They require a bit more of a learning curve to offroad, as lines and finesse come into the equation other than putting the hammer down.... I would much rather have a series truck, but then I am biased. They have thier limitations when used on road (and since the gentleman drives a triumph as a daily driver, he would be well aware of Lucas and other rover issues.) namely top end speed and yes some creature comforts (once again he is a triumph driver....). Depending on what he truely wants, then he could always import a series from the UK for not much more than a disco or a rangie.... but then as you all know, I am very biased toward the series trucks.....

[Badger1]

If your looking for a truck in the 5 thousand dollar range, you should be able to find a really decent Discovery series 1. Having owned an 89 Range Rover, and now a 1997 D1 and also a 2000 D2, the D1 is definatey MY choice over the three for trail riding. Why, well between the D1 and D2.......the D2 is too nice to dent up that's all. Now between my 89 RR and the D1, it's the D1 all the way. LT230 transfer case(87 and 88 RR have it too) with the manually locking center diff(89 and later had a "auto" locking viscous center diff), also the staorage in the D1 is much better too. My only regret is not getting a manual transmission. If memory serves me 96 and older trucks had the option, but it is rare here in the states.

Look around and don't jump on the first thing you find. You'll find good examples with a good service history with them. Check your local clubs, and Land Rover Exchange or Disco Web have nice trucks for sale also.

[300bhp/ton]

Originally Posted by pickuprover

300... I would dissagree on this point.... yes they ride harder, and have less powerful engine... but as for their performance offroad... if you drive them like they have a high horsepower engine, then no they are not as capable... but if you drive them like what they are.. they will go head to head with any other rover. They require a bit more of a learning curve to offroad, as lines and finesse come into the equation other than putting the hammer down.... I would much rather have a series truck, but then I am biased.

Don't get me wrong I love Series Land Rovers, we've had 3 over the years (Series 2, 2a and 3).

But in competative trials they are in a different class (leaf sprung class) because they generally are not as capable stock. This is because stock leaf springs don't offer the same articulation so getting cross axled is more of an issue. Also not having power steering means on heavily rutted terrain holding the wheel straight can be difficult.

In the right hands and even more so with parabolics they are very very capable. But stock for stock a coil sprung vehicle will be easier to driver further over difficult terrain.

[onslow]

Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton

Don't get me wrong I love Series Land Rovers, we've had 3 over the years (Series 2, 2a and 3).

But in competative trials they are in a different class (leaf sprung class) because they generally are not as capable stock. This is because stock leaf springs don't offer the same articulation so getting cross axled is more of an issue. Also not having power steering means on heavily rutted terrain holding the wheel straight can be difficult.

In the right hands and even more so with parabolics they are very very capable. But stock for stock a coil sprung vehicle will be easier to driver further over difficult terrain.

I have to agree with 300 on this one I run an 88" 2a trials vehicle with paras V8 and 3spd auto and powersteering and having driven a vehicle identical to mine except for coil springs the coiler beats it hands down.

the disco will be the best option as you can go places at a realistic speed and be a capable off roader when you do get there,again do disrespect to the series fraternity but for this post it has to be the disco.

Why do people have this hang up about Lucas equipment I have always found it simple and reliable,I think people expect to much from systems that are 30 years old most of it is down to bad maintenance and poor repairs.

[pickuprover]

Onslow, maybe it is the massive quainties of salt that they use on the roads where I am at. I am constantly having to cut out bits of bad wire and insert new (and yes, I am anal about how I do it, always with a soldering iron and shrink wrap. I even bought a butane soldering iron so I can do feild repairs that will never need pulling out when I get home..) Oh and if anyone has a spare can of lucas smoke, pm me, I am down to my last one.....

[skikir]

Thanks guys, a lot of info here. Manual over Auto? Is Manual better than Auto or is that subjective. I was just looking at this...

"1995 Land Rover Discovery Manual - $4000

White, good condition, rare manual 1995 Land Rover Discovery. Tags good through March 2009, well maintained, located in Multnomah Village in SW Portland. "

The picture looks good. Didn't mention milage. I wonder if it would be easy to mount my anti tailgaiting device in the moon roof.

http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y17...t=P1010026.jpg

[300bhp/ton]

Manual vs auto debate will rage forever, but in reality it comes down to personal preference.

For me I love manuals, a lot more fun on the road and offer much more control as well, engine breaking becomes a reality where as an auto relies full on the brakes most of the time, so if you dirve spirited such as on British B roads or up in the mountains manual would be my choice.

Some say auto's are better for traffic, but unless you have a medical reason I call it lazy.

As for off roading, well it depends what you do and what you prefer. Auto's definitely can work well off road but so can a manual. Having only 4 gears with the auto low speed may not be as good unless you regear, but then you'll lhave highway crusing rpms and less mpg.

If you rock crawl or play in the desert I can see an auto being the better chioce, for everything else I'd always go for a manual.