Carbon Build up...Is this a good idea?

[Rudy R]

today I was talking to one of my LandRover buddys he told me a story about a guy that had used mothballs to kick up the octaine on his vehicle down in mexico.

what do you all know and or think?

[drg]

Originally Posted by Rudy R

today I was talking to one of my LandRover buddys he told me a story about a guy that had used mothballs to kick up the octaine on his vehicle down in mexico.

what do you all know and or think?

Probably also not a good idea:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem00485.htm

Basically, yes mothballs can slightly increase octane rating. But probably not enough to matter, and in our trucks it's it probably wouldn't help if it did, and the side effects are serious (carbon fouling at best, hydrochloric acid eating your engine components at worst).

Rounding the list of 'unorthodox' fuel additives would be acetone. I don't know the final answer on that one. I've tried to learn about it, but I'm no chemist. From what I think I've learned, there is truth to the idea that adding very small amounts of acetone to fuel (~3oz per 10 gallons) can significantly improve mileage. There are vague warnings that this might result in deterioration of some fuel system parts, but I'm not convinced. Unfortunately, there is also indication that alcohol in the fuel cancels out the effect. Since I live in a state which 'oxygenates' (adds methanol to) its fuel many months out of the year, that means it probably wouldn't work here.

But while we're on the subject of additives, anyone else want to pitch in about acetone?

[Muddy Oval]

I have tested acetone and have shown that unquestionably it does increase fuel economy significantly. I've also seen what acetone does to plastic and won't use it in my trucks because the fuel pump housings etc are plastic.
Acetone isn't intended to increase octane, it supposedly causes the fuel to atomize more efficiently or something like that and burn more efficiently.

[DiscoPilot]

Originally Posted by Muddy Oval

I have tested acetone and have shown that unquestionably it does increase fuel economy significantly. I've also seen what acetone does to plastic and won't use it in my trucks because the fuel pump housings etc are plastic.
Acetone isn't intended to increase octane, it supposedly causes the fuel to atomize more efficiently or something like that and burn more efficiently.

Steve at that dilution level do you think it is enough to age and harden the plastics?

i have an old fuel pump assembly i can test to see what kind of damage i can get it to do.

[drg]

Originally Posted by DiscoPilot

Steve at that dilution level do you think it is enough to age and harden the plastics?

i have an old fuel pump assembly i can test to see what kind of damage i can get it to do.

That would be great, if you could test it out. I see where Steve is coming from. I used to use acetone to dissolve plastic etch mask from printed circuit boards... the acetone would dissolve the plastic film that the etching acid would not.

Still, there are different formulations of plastic, and I can imagine that different plastics behave differently... I would expect that the soft plastics we used for PCB masks would likely have dissolved in gasoline too, and that there are plastics that acetone doesn't harm.

If you can do some immersion tests with an old fuel pump, that would at least give us some additional data. Granted, putting a fuel pump in a tank of gas with say 5 times the regular mix of acetone to gasoline for a couple of months isn't a conclusive test, but it's data. Truthfully, the nature of the question is that it would take some serious dollars to get a conclusive answer if acetone doesn't cause unusual deterioration of fuel systems... it's hard to prove a negative assertion.

[acornhoek]

Acetone isn't intended to increase octane, it supposedly causes the fuel to atomize more efficiently or something like that and burn more efficiently.

Yes, atomize more efficiently by reducing surface tension. Remember though, low fuel pressure and out of spec injectors do the reverse and decrease gas mileage.

[Muddy Oval]

If you have a spare pump- I'd say soak it in a high concentration of acetone to simulate longer term expeosure and see if it melts it. Acetone is REALLY cheap, just make sure to get pure stuff. The LEAST increase I got with it was 12%. That's not bad. I tried it on and off over several months and the difference was there each time. I also plotted it all using an OBDII recorder so the numbers are accurate.

[DiscoPilot]

Cool I'll start the test here in the next day or so using a 5 times stronger concentration and we'll see what we get!!

[drg]

Originally Posted by Muddy Oval

If you have a spare pump- I'd say soak it in a high concentration of acetone to simulate longer term expeosure and see if it melts it.

I think there's a balance to be had. It would be nice to accelerate the results... we'd like to know that we can use acetone for 10 years without finding out 9 years into it that we've slowly been dissolving our fuel pump.

On the other hand, we don't know the relative effects of drastically changing the ratios. It may be that the pump could withstand 30 years at the suggested ratio of 3 oz / 10 gals, but only 2 months at 10 times that concentration. Sometimes chemical reactions are non-proportional that way.

Maybe soaking some fuel line would be a good experiment too.

Might be good to take some careful measurements of flanges and the like, in case the plastic swells in such a way that it's not immediately obvious, but measuring with a caliper shows changes.

On the other hand, our fuel pumps don't seem to last much more than 10 years anyway...

[DiscoPilot]

Yeah i plan on putting several different type of components of the fuel system in the mix.

I figure if 5 times the concentration doesn't do it then it has to be reasonably safe ..... besides your right our fuel pump aren't worth a Sh!t anyways

If anyone has any other suggestions let me know before I start the test

[drg]

Nice. Thanks for doing the experiment. You rock.