Diesel Conversion-Thoughts?

[AZROVER]

This is something I've been reading about and researching a good deal over the past few weeks. I've always loved diesels, especially with turbos and I'm really committed to moving toward BioFuel. I had kind of an epiphany a month ago and I am really trying to change the way I conduct my life in a more conscious and "green" manner. Another guy here at ASU is looking for a diesel for his DII and I figure it might be easier to see how someone else does it before I drop serious $$ on a motor. I know I could just sell the Rover and get a TDI VW, thats what a logical person would say, but I will NEVER drive a small car as a daily driver. Drivers suck out here and I'm not going to become a grease spot on the highway just to save on fuel. Some motors I've been considering are the Cummins 4bt/a, commonly used in delivery trucks, parts available, domestic. Powerstroke/International has also just started selling a 2.8l that is a new version of the 300tdi. But the motor alone is $6-7K and I don't exactly have a job (graduating in May). Anyone know of any other options? I am not looking for a more efficient gas engine like a GM350ci and I'm also not looking for a global warming debate. I just became a member on D Wed finally but after seeing how guys with the same idea were treated over there, I think I post here first. This would be a whole lot easier if LR sold a friggen Diesel stateside! I wonder when Americans are going to figure out that diesels aren't just for blue-collar work trucks and are a common standard motor for every foreign luxury flagship?! Just one of the many things that chaps my butt about being an American car buyer. Anyway, give me your thoughts!
-Hank

[jhmover]

It's not worth the time, energy, hassle or money to bother with it in my opinion.

[archaeology_student]

Originally Posted by AZROVER

I had kind of an epiphany a month ago and I am really trying to change the way I conduct my life in a more conscious and "green" manner.

I know I could just sell the Rover and get a TDI VW, thats what a logical person would say, but I will NEVER drive a small car as a daily driver. Drivers suck out here and I'm not going to become a grease spot on the highway just to save on fuel.
-Hank

No offense, but I just found the two lines above somewhat of a contradiction. You want to be greener but yet you need a larger vehicle for a daily driver...

If you are conscious about becoming more environmentally friendly take this quiz to to understand your Ecological footprint, and then think that over.

Even if you are running Bio-Diesel, you would still be consuming more fuel. Being greener isn't just about using Bio-Diesel, it involves learning to consume less, and to consume with intelligence and dilligence. Resources are finite, and once they are gone, they are gone.

I'm just making a comment, nothing more, and nothing less. You also make some good points... safety in smaller vehicles is always an issue. It always pays to look at the Saftey reports on certain vehicles to see which ones out shine the others in Federal Safety reports.

[Roverhound]

Oh damn that meanieweb!
i think the point over there as stated above that it's just not feasible to convert a v8 gas to diesel. All the computers in the D2 are talking to each other. There are to many electronics talking to make it easy.
How about a propane/dual fuel conversion/ i want to see that done here in the States.
P.S. Are youn going to travel forums 'til you get the answers you want to hear or are you seeking useful information?

[roverpwr]

So if not a D2, what about a D1? Still some computers depending on how new of a D1 you use. Its not that it cannot be done, but the costs might go thru the roof. I also refuse to drive a small car, just dont feel safe in one with all the much larger vehicles on the road, much larger than a Discovery! I keep myself "greener" by combining trips, picking up needed items on the way home from work, instead of making an extra trip later on. I try to keep the Disco running as well as it can, tires properly inflated, running a sensible all season when not going trail running. I have seen more exotic things with a diesel in it, so it can be done with the right amount of money and engineering.

[floridadiscoI]

i have a D1, and would also be interested in doing a conversion to diesel.

[cartm58]

Maths say's conversion isnt cost effective, but if we made all decisions based on cost effectiveness we wouldnt be owning LAnd Rover products woudl we.

Cost of Diesel motor $6000 plus, cost of having someone doing the conversion for you $5000 plus, $12,000 plus to break even recovery point with fuel saving of 25% over existing petrol motor less difference between petrol and diesel fuel prices.

Diesel motor whilst being more fuel efficient has a downside in that diesel particle smoke is carcigentic agent

If you want a Diesel motor in Landrover product go and buy one made that way from the factory secondhand.

In Australia federal Govt offering $2000 rebate on conversion to LPG and WA State Govt offering a $1000 rebate so changeover if you want to wait up to 3 months costing around $1000 to $1500. Cheaper than Petrol about 40% the current pump price and cleaner fuel than diesel, keep your petrol motor.

Downside tanks take up space and need someone who knows LR product as issues with MAF and backfiring

[AZROVER]

I knew I was going to hear that this isn't feasible. Right now, with the miles I drive it wouldn't be. But then again I drive 1 mile per day and when I get a real job after school I'll most likely be doing a commute. I just see a lot of long term benefits in this. First, any American Land Rover enthusiast can empathize with the fact that it's cool, and extremely unique. As to Arch' students comment, I'll be running on waste vegetable oil. This IS renewable and as close to carbon neutral as you can get since in theory you would be putting as much Co2 in the air as it took to make the Corn or whatever in the first place. Corn and Soy are not finite resources, at least not yet. Not to mention as close to free fuel as you can get. And yes, my new "Green" way of conducting life is more than just my car.
Then there are the benefits of diesel. Reliable, little electrical in-put to F up the motor(which is what my 4.0 has been for the past 2 years), better mileage even on petro-diesel and high torque at low rpms. I just really love driving a Landy wayy too much to trade. I can be honest with you guys and say that yeah, I am looking for an answer I want to get closer to my end because I'm just too hot on this idea right now. Even if I drive more efficiently on petrol, my 50+ dollars a tank is going overseas to who knows where. Running on B100/B20 and especially WVO, my fuel money is going right here.

[archaeology_student]

I myself know the benefits of Bio-Diesel, never once did I discredit it. I use B20 for my rover, and in fact promote it to any diesel owner I come across in person, and list the benefits. You are quite right with the reduction in particulate matter, and it is beneficial in many ways of course Heck the original design of the Diesel engine was to run off of peanut oil.

Everything on our planet is finite, and that was a key point.

I read, read some more, and still keep reading up on alternative fuels. I know a few people that used to grab free waste oil from restaraunts, until competition arose, and the restaraunts started asking for money... that was strange... but there are other restaraunts.

Anyways, I digress, and was just commenting on the earlier juxtaposition I made with your statements. Regarding the conversion... it's too pricey and there are always radicals that come into play, unless you get it done by someone who has done the exact same conversion to do yours with whichever engine you throw in there.

cartman58 makes a strong case, and has great advice. That's the best answer for you. Good luck

[jwlester]

I definitely agree that biodiesel is the way of the future. I love diesel technology and I think the US public will slowly warm up to the idea soon enough. I make B100 for grins in the barn for under $1/gallon and can't see any downside to its use. I have contemplated this idea many times as well and am in the process of working out a conversion with another marque. From what I've found, I think the only way to convert a D2 "easily" would be to grab everything from a TD5 model. I know this has been done atleast once before and seems like a long but possible route to go. I think for me...I will just wait until the old 110s are legal here and swap in a 300tdi. Good luck in your quest and let us know if you come up with any truely feasible options.

Cheers, Josh

[Disco Mike]

One thing not being mentioned is that there is more to s diesel swap then just dumping in an engine, usually you will need a tranny and t/case plus the fuel system, extra cooling capabilitys and in some cases the issue of how to get around some of the computers already in your truck. Bottom line, you will need very deep pockets to do a good conversion.
Mike

[300bhp/ton]

First off WVO is NOT biodiesel and you'll need all the kit to run on WVO. Sure it wil run without but it'll just bugger your engine in a fairly short order.

As for a swap, well it's as easy or difficult as you make it to be. There is no technical reason why a DII can't be converted. And for people saying because of the computers - bollox!!!

The old Rover V8 isn't spohisticated by any stretch of the imagination and the computers have very little to do with it except for a few sensors for ODBII compliance.

Easiy option would be to buy a Land Rover TD5 engine and ECU and simply swap them in. It might not be 100% legal in the US but there appears to be many running Tdi engines so I can't see why it wouldn't work.

Going for a full custom diesel swap could be very expensive and possible never work very well. Research and planning will tell you feasibility of it and no ones opinion will matter. Let the figures speak for themself.

As for the benifits of diesel - well I'll back them 100%. I'd never go to a V8 Land Rover over a diesel, even a 4.6 sure the diesel might not be the fastest at the drag strip but it's more than powerful enough for everything the vehicle will be used for, has better power delivery and will return much better mpg.

The conversion would not be a bad thing, but just really be sure what you are letting yourself info (time, hassle, money, problems, r&d, costs, performance and expected outcome and gains).

[AZROVER]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I don't think I specified that my truck is a DI. There are a few less computers to worry about but this still is one of my biggest questions about the process. I found out last night from my friend that there is a warehouse about 4 miles east of me with 10 300tdi's sitting in it! 6 with Autos, 4 with 5 speeds. If the motor, t-case, and trans can be installed for $6,000, would this be a deal? And yeah, sorry I didn't clarify that I knew the difference between diesel and WVO, you're right they are very different and require a bit of modification. BTW I don't really know that much about the 300tdi other than the basic specs. Any comment on this motor as far as ease of maintenance, fuel efficiency, reliability, and what can it cruise at on the highway?
-Hank

[jozg44]

Originally Posted by AZROVER

Any comment on this motor as far as ease of maintenance, fuel efficiency, reliability, and what can it cruise at on the highway?
-Hank

Routine maintenance on a Tdi is very easy- oil+filter change every 6,000 miles, fuel filter every 12,000. It doesn't have the V8s timing chain or hydraulic tappets, so needs the tappets adjusting every 12,000 miles and the timing belt changing every 60,000.

Our 300Tdi Discovery Series I does 28-30MPG on day-to-day driving, going up to 32MPG on long motorway runs. I got 35MPG out of it when making a concious effort to drive efficently. This is with a manual gearbox- autos probably drop a couple of MsPG.

The only reliability issue is the timing belt. Early 300Tdis have a design fault that causes the belt to fail very quickly, which can cause major damage. The fault was fixed around 1995/6 and by now all the engines should have had the modified belt pulleys fitted- there is a way of telling, but I can't remember it at this exact moment.

Performance with a Tdi is definitly short of V8-standards. 0-60 time is something like 16 seconds flat-out. However, it will comfortably cruise at 70-80 MPH. Performance upgrades like optimised fuelling and bigger intercoolers can improve things dramatically with only a small drop in MPG. I personally prefer the slower but torquier delivery of a turbodiesel engine to the smoother, faster but more 'peaky' performance you get from a V8, but that's all down to personal preference.

Jack

[300bhp/ton]

If you live in America and are used to V8's then a stock Tdi would be a dissapointment. Remember they are only 2.5 litres displacement with 111bhp and 195lb ft stock. Having said that they actually drive pretty good if you accept them for what they are.

A modified TDI is a different matter though, a full width intercooler and tuning will make them very nippy and in real terms match or exceed a stock 3.9/4.0 Rover with no problems on the street and be even better off road.

My 200Tdi running 33.11.50 off road tyres does ~24-28mpg normal driving. Being more conservative 28-30mpg is probably possible. Do remember that's imperial gallons so in the US you'd see slighly lower mpg.

But in reality a good TDI will match a 4.0 V8 on the road be better off road and see about double the mpg

For a D1 a swap would be easy, the stock tranny is fine and the rest will pretty much bolt in. Most TDI's don't have an ECU at all so the engine will be easy to get running and then you only need to stop the warning lights coming on on the dash for the old sensors that the V8 had which is also easy.