Engines

[spectric]

Hi all

It's the subject of engines again and we have all wanted more power from our diesel defenders at some time or another. Offroad I think that they are ok and theres not much room for complaint but on road they do lack the horses and it has always been a shame that landrover never made a 3 litre TDi.

So the advantage of the landy engine is cheap parts and the downside of the 300 is the timing belt. There are better engines out there but the parts are expensive and not so easy to obtain, engines like Isuzu, Perkins & Nissan spring to mind.

So who's running a non landrover engine out there ? lets have your views and experiences please.

all the best Roy

[onslow]

I have ran Perkins engined rangies (4236) and in my opinon the best of the best for reliability and consumption.And absolute monster in 90's and 110's
Onz

[spectric]

Hi Onslow

So what is the Perkins like when compared to a 300 Tdi and does it have gear or belt to drive cam etc ?

Also are the parts easy to come by ?

Any other info appreciated

thanks Roy

[Snagger]

I don't understand what you have against the 300Tdi. I had to replace the head gasket on mine at 120,000 miles (not unreasonable), and the bore honing was as clear as new, the head unblemished and the pistons mint. It starts INSTANTLY, EVERY time, even when cold and without waiting for the heater plugs (how many diesels have that good compression at that mileage?).

Taking its evolution one stage further, the 2.8 TGV (variable geometry turbo) produce more torque and power than the TD5, with the robustness and simplicity of the Tdi. It still has the rubber belt as these have been proven reliable so long as they are replaced on their 72,000 mile interval (early 300 timing cock-up aside), more so than the egar driven alternative kit or the chain driven TD5.

[spectric]

Hi all

The 300 TDi is not a bad engine and has ample power offroad. It lacks power on the road and should have been a 3 litre. Also the belt problems have always been a concern.

It is false economy thinking you get better mpg from a smaller engine, an engine will give you better economy if it is not having to work hard and in a landrover the 300 does have to work hard to maintain a reasonable cruising speed wheras a bigger engine would be able to maintain the same speed at a lower rpm.

Having seen a 110 fitted with a 3.5 litre Nissan diesel who could out accelerate my 300 Tdi 90 even with a 20 foot caravan in tow and another one with a 2.8 Isuzu engine that performed as good as the 2.8 TGv engine it does make you wonder.

So the biggest advantage of the landrover engine is cheap plentiful spares but using a commercial diesel then properly maintained it will outlast the landrover engine and give better mpg. The cost of parts is a problem with the jap diesels.

The perkins engines use gear driven cam and I believe the 4.182 turbo can produce 140 Hp ! It is only 12lbs heavier and roughly the same size.

[V8_Agro]

With the 300tdi you can do alot of upgrades and doing these will make the engine hum like you would not belive

If you don't like the cam belt fit a zeus timing gear set but from what I hear the timing belts only fail because of poor servicing of the engine??

Fit a garrett all ball bearing turbo these things will spin at any rev you want and they are very good quality as we use these in some race cars here

Lastly fit a bigger intercoller to go with your new turbo and there you have it

It will be a very quick 90/110 with just the turbo and intercooler plus with a bit of head work you get more torgue out of them also

If I had the money I would do a 300tdi conversion to my stage 1


Adam

[Snagger]

DO NOT fit a Zeus timing gear system! There are numerous reports of failure due to the teeth shearing or the gear-to-shaft locators wearing out. I contacted several engine remanufacturers of very high repute about the kit, and ALL said that their engine warantees would be invalidated instantly due to the kit's unreliability. There are plenty of first hand reports on the net about these systems failing, and the company behaving less than reasonably after the event.

It is a nuisance to replace the rubber belt, but so long as the timing case has not been allowed to fill with contaminants, and the belt is replaced on schedule with a quality part, they are very reliable. The 300's repuataion has obviously suffered as a result of the misalignment error in some early units, but this was corrected and should pose no further problems. The rest of the engine is very robust and long-lived. The engine will happily take a considerable amount of tweaking too.

[onslow]

Originally Posted by spectric

Hi Onslow

So what is the Perkins like when compared to a 300 Tdi and does it have gear or belt to drive cam etc ?

Also are the parts easy to come by ?

Any other info appreciated

thanks Roy

Hi Roy,
the 4236 n/a will out pull anything they are a very strong and bombproof engine the cam is geardriven so very reliable.Parts are still easy to source due to its vast range of uses.
But if you want a real road machine look for the turbo charged version if landrover ever fitted these to there range of vechicle they would have the market cornered.
Cheers ONz

[spectric]

Hi all

I would definately fit a Zeus conversion if I keep a 300 under the bonnet.

There has been a lot of people saying negative things about these gears but I have never seen any supporting evidence. They are a great idea and apart from NVH issues landrover would have gone this route.

I have been told by several people that they would not take a 300 with a belt into any situation where your life could depend upon the reliability and strongly recommend the gears.

I have talked to an engineer that had the gears inspected before fitting them and found no evidence of incorrect teeth profile or hardness.

Even LRE had a set fitted to one of their employees vehicles but NEVER any feedback, so the only way for me to reach a definitive conclusion will be to fit a set myself and then if there are any problems Zeus cannot say they were fitted wrong and it would be an issue with the design or materials used.

This is why I would like a perkins 4.182 as it is a commercial engine and designed for high mileage .

Roy

[Moeras]

Some populour enjin conversions from South Africa:

(Series = SII, SIIA, SIII & R6: Modern = Disco, Defender, Ect)

Petrol
Ford 3 litre V6 - Runs very hot so a bigger Radiator is needed
Chev 4.1 Litre Straight 6 (As in the Jeep Cheroke) - Very good but heavy on fuel. Also tends to destroy front suspension on older models Series landies(SII).
Rover 3.5 litre V8 - Very good but heavy on fuel

Diesel
Toyota 2.4 (both Turbo & Normal) Very good on Series class landys, dont know of any modern conversions yet.
Isuzu 2.8 Turbo - No problems of any kind - for Series and Modern Landies
Isuzu 2.5 Normal aspirated - No problems - But only on Series Landies
Merc 3 Litre Turbo - Very good on all modren landies - very expensive

The Nissan & Mitchibishi diesel enjins available in SA apparently is not of a good quality, so people tend to avoid them for conversions.

Perkins does no longer have agents in SA so if available the enjins is very expensive.

[Lawnmower]

I know some one who stuck a transit diesel in their Series 3 lwb, can get higher top speed from it.

[1955diesel]

Originally Posted by spectric

I have been told by several people that they would not take a 300 with a belt into any situation where your life could depend upon the reliability and strongly recommend the gears.

Military Land Rovers all have belts.
The belts got a bad name due to an early production problem and now people have lost faith in them. Even Ford are frightened, having been bitten in the past, the service interval for the Discovery 3 belt has been set at half its predicted life!

[beckpipes]

Can anyone out there tell me what is involved in installing a Ford 2.5 Di engine in series 3? What special parts are required? and where to get them?
robin@beckpipes.com

[Snagger]

Try Steve Parker. He advertises in the magazines and is a specialist in Land Rover engine conversions - he supplies engines and fitting kits or wil carry out the installation for you.

[beckpipes]

Thanks for that one. Does this guy have a website?