Ford threatens Land Rover

[SydneyViking]

Brother Bruneaux
I can hardly see anyone doing such a vile thing to those nice chaps in Solihull.
Here's abunch of hardworking, well intentioned British workpeople who by no fault of their own - I blame the management entirely - have been forced to produce a well designed iconic vehicle on a shoestring.

If LR does go to the wall it'll be the Japanese who will be dancing in the ashes of the Solihull plant.

oh and by

Originally Posted by mbruneaux

Investors in the UK need to buy back the mark and rack the wip!

Did you mean "buy back the marque and crack the whip"?

[mbruneaux]

Originally Posted by SydneyViking

Brother Bruneaux
I can hardly see anyone doing such a vile thing to those nice chaps in Solihull.
Here's abunch of hardworking, well intentioned British workpeople who by no fault of their own - I blame the management entirely - have been forced to produce a well designed iconic vehicle on a shoestring.

If LR does go to the wall it'll be the Japanese who will be dancing in the ashes of the Solihull plant.

oh and by



Did you mean "buy back the marque and crack the whip"?

Thank you for the correction. I don't know the whole story about Solihull and don't pretend to. Nothing chaps my A** like the Japanese copying everything and the Automotive media fawning all over bland vehicles void of character. Regardless of who you blame Land Rover as a whole has to get out of it, and coming from the world of General Motors i don't have a fondness for unions and for their quality or work ethic as a whole. The sad think is that you're right, there are good honest hard working people that love what they do and do it well, and they are the ones who will be hurt the most. At GM the management has been the issue because they would cave to the unions and lost control of their own product. The French government forced Peugeot to buy Citroen, can't parliament step in if enough pressure is applied?

[sidawson]

I have driven many different cars and trucks. From Saudi to Hong Kong, My home England to my now home the US. Cars break down it doesn’t matter how make them. If you don’t look after them they wont look after you.
LR’s quality etc has always been a ??? Topic. But with out a doubt its off-road performance is unsurpassable, and I think this is why any of us drive them.
As for the Discovery 3 or LR3 when I first saw it. I could have sworn that the Honda Element was its little brother.

[PTSchram]

Last November, I "retired" from working for one of the tier one suppliers to Rover, albeit, not directly from the plant where I worked (at the time).

I worked with automotive engineers who were incapable of such simple operations as changing their own oil, yet these same individuals were designing parts and assembly processes to do things they had no possibility of doing themselves.

Then, there were the OEM assembly plants where if the parts didn't line up just right, they refused to align parts, or pull wiring harnesses through door openings.

Rover is a relatively low production marque that suffers from nothing that other organizations don't suffer from.

I have driven vehicles made by nearly all of the domestic US manufacturers and found some of them to be more robust than others, but hands down, my Rover is more capable off-road, more robust from a structural standpoint, and is based on an American engine (grin). The first time out with my Chevrolet Blazer, I bent the frame leading to repeated replacement of windshields... The Rover really hasn't broken except for pilot errors. Had I bought the Defender I wanted right when I bent the frame on the Blazer, it would be worth what I paid for it, whereas, I got less than 10% of the price of the Blazer when I sold it with 198K hard miles (and many parts replaced).

Peace,
PT

PS-devyn'sdad-we are everywhere, aren't we? How many shows have you seen?

[CoachDitka]

Personally I love my 97 RR HSE. I would not trade it for any American SUV, I just don't care for them. I think the real problem here, though, is that Rovers are ranked the worst in initial quality. The personality and capability of Rovers have drawn many people to the name, and its too bad that build quality has not been improved upon. One might expect poor quality when purchasing a car like a Kia (which ranks second-to-last in initial quality) because the car costs 10 grand, but when paying 4-7 times that price one would expect a bit more. I don't know if the problem lies in the parts that make up the Rovers, the designs, the assembly, or what, but the fact is that these cars have WAY more problems than almsot any other cars, and not minor problems.

None of this changes the fact that I love my RR, but I can tell you I would enjoy dirving it a lot more if I wasn't always expecting something to break...

Oh, as far as Ford ruining Rovers, has it ruined Jag?

-Coach

[Norwestdisco]

Getting back to the tyre issue. I understand the driver's lost control of there vehicles after a tyre blow out. Should they not be looking at teaching the yank's to drive. If your tyre blows you don't let go of the steering wheel, you drive the vehicle to a stop.

[DevynsDad]

Unfortunately, we have quite a few bad drivers in America.

I've always looked at it like this: In any population you have a percentage of people who are stupid, psychotic, alcoholic, etc. The larger the population, the greater the number that percentage represents. In America we have over 100 million licensed drivers. Even if only 5% are poor drivers, that's still 5 million people!

The Ford Explorer was the best selling SUV in America for over a decade, and has sold over 4 million worldwide. You figure that some of those Explorers found their way into the hands of the 5 million bad drivers in America....well, you get the picture.

[mbruneaux]

Originally Posted by DevynsDad

Unfortunately, we have quite a few bad drivers in America.

I've always looked at it like this: In any population you have a percentage of people who are stupid, psychotic, alcoholic, etc. The larger the population, the greater the number that percentage represents. In America we have over 100 million licensed drivers. Even if only 5% are poor drivers, that's still 5 million people!

The Ford Explorer was the best selling SUV in America for over a decade, and has sold over 4 million worldwide. You figure that some of those Explorers found their way into the hands of the 5 million bad drivers in America....well, you get the picture.

Excellent point.

[Norwestdisco]

Well pointed out.

[azpaquin]

Before I go on the rant.. Imagine a nice OEM galv chassis defender 110 sold here in the states out of the showroom with dana 9/60 axles and a nice ford powerstroke for 45k. Bye Bye H2. You just got smoked. But cross company pollenating wont happen with Ford/LR.

NOW -Most of the profit of the vehicles manufactured....just in time to sit on a lot for 90 days with options no one wants... comes not from the margin created from the sale.. but from the financing of the vehicle. Ford, Diamler Chrysler, GM, all had their other divisions are propped up by the $$ made from financing. They want us all endentured servants to the almighty car payments. (some material source here from the Economist)

What is holding back innovation in the auto industry in total is the unions. Get a union involved (today's unions, not the ones to prevent fires like in the triangle fire) and innovation, efficiency and profit, yes profit will be replaced by shop stuards, fat pensions, golden parachutes and inflated pay to support the union dues. A car company can't so much as fart without getting it approved by the UAW.

Imagine unions were really involved in microprocessor innovation? We would all be on green screens that would break.

[Lawnmower]

Had a ford fiesta diesel- it sucked and rusted to bits.
Have still got an 18year old nissan micra, VERY reliable and excellant condition!

Used to drive a toyota hilux non turbo diesel, slow as hell, but very rugged (anyone see topgear where they trashed that hilux, and it kept on rolling-you better believe it!)

Colleage had a land rover defender have a blow out on the middle lane of the motorway with half a ton of gea in the back and no bulkhead! Flipped the vehicle and it slided down the M6, they kicked the windows out and didn't have a scratch on them!

In my experiance a blow out is not fun, and Japanese cars are excellant, if the Japs get their hands on landies it will be the best thing that could happen to it. ALL the fords I have driven have ben flawed, be it cars or vans, even the old faithful transit. The land rover design series/defender is why they make such good offroad vehickles, why the germans made the TD5 stall in first gear on a flat tarmac road is beyond me...

a rant, probabl with lots of punctuation errors.

anyway what i was going to say was:

It's a sad day for Coventry, 1100 jobs cut at Jaguar, no doubt more to follow? The strikes at solihull whereover pay i think, ie Jag workers got payed more than LR. Big busness decision, cut the higher payed jobs (Jag) so LR don't have anything to compare to. Discuss

[Bwana]

I owned two Ford Broncos in the '90's, and they were THE most trouble free vehicles I've had. NEVER went back to the dealer OR broke down. They were able to pull anything you put behind them. My Range Rover slows down significantly when I pull an empty trailer. American autos in the past were heavy, gas guzzling lunkers. But now, quality wise, they are up there with the Japs. Like it or not, Land Rover could benefit from some of Ford's "better ideas".

Also consider in the argument over the safety record of the Explorer: The American liberals, including the media, are trying to do away with SUV's altogether. They're tired of the tree huggers in their Corollas getting t-boned by Suburbans and ending up as a grease spot in the road while the Suburban is still driveable. They think gas mileage of SUV's is ruining their world. (Notice I said "their world"? That's what they think!)They want you to drive what they tell you to drive. All liberals want is to tell you what to do because you are too stupid to make a good decision. That's why you drive a Land Rover instead of a Scion.

[spectric]

Hi all

Don't think that Ford has no design input with Landrover. The new diesel engines are Ford engines, the V6 & V8 then the Defender if it manages to continue in production will probabily get the transit Duratorq engine.

Ford has overall say with all aspects of finance and will be looking at sharing components between brands as well as reducing the cost of parts.

So they are only interested in making dollars and if a product fails to give the returns then it would be caned. The future of the defender hangs in the balance as in it's curent form it is expensive to manufacture and will not meet new safety legislation whilst at the same time it's market share has shrunk to abismal levels. If they radically change it then it won't be a defender, and as the SUV market is catered for by the disco & range rover whilst the softroader market is handled by the freelander this would leave no where for the defender.

[TerryS]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

Had a ford fiesta diesel- it sucked and rusted to bits.
Have still got an 18year old nissan micra, VERY reliable and excellant condition!

It seems inappropriate to lump all Ford products into a single pot, siting an example of a lemon which wasn't even built in the US. Ford has plants in the UK and Germany, and their vehicles are commonly driven in the UK, however, and due largely to the high tarriffs imposed in the UK on US produced goods, few people outside the US have firsthand experience with US produced vehicles. It is equally inappropriate to claim the credit for so many wonderful vehicles badged with British names, but made in Asia. The successes the Japanese companies have producing cars in the UK is due in large part to their top managements refusal to give in to the trade unions past practices.
Clearly, if you go to the US on holiday, or anywhere else for that matter, and choose to rent the cheapest offering of Hertz, Avis, Budget or Enterprise, you are going to get what you pay for. I daresay, If the choice were a Lincoln, or Cadilac, both of which are also offered, the opinions would differ dramaticly.
I'm guessing the answer to the mind-boggling question of why Land Rover bought a German built panel forming press, over a US or UK built unit, had something to do with the German ownership of Land Rover. At least the dies were made in the UK. Give a product it's credit for the here and now, not for stuff best left in the history books. The origin of the Land Rover might be the Jeep, that that has little or nothing to do with their superior off-road ability today. You can't get a cup of tea in the US better than pond water, nor can you get a cup of coffee in Britain thinner than crankcase oil.

[Lawnmower]

for the record.
I have driven he Transit van, arguably the best vehicle ford have produced. Even that scared the crap out of me when doing 90 down the motor way to hear a large banging noise-it was the strip that holds the left side front window in. Happened on both transits in our fleet, and on others too.

Drove the transit connect-gutless, spongy clutch.

My dad has had numerous sierras and cortinas- all rust buckets.

Anyone opened a ford car door with the key from another ford?

Ford has a reputation for being crap, I wonder why.
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If anyone went to the motor show this year in the NEC, Birmingham, did you notice that to go into the Landrover only areas, you needed to have an American Express credit card or sign up for one on the spot?
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As for coffee, we have Starbucks here you know.. and Italy is a tad closer too.