Ford threatens Land Rover

[TerryS]

Originally Posted by Lawnmower

for the record.
I have driven he Transit van, arguably the best vehicle ford have produced. Even that scared the crap out of me when doing 90 down the motor way
Drove the transit connect-gutless, spongy clutch.

My dad has had numerous sierras and cortinas- all rust buckets.

Anyone opened a ford car door with the key from another ford?

Ford has a reputation for being crap, I wonder why.
------
As for coffee, we have Starbucks here you know.. and Italy is a tad closer too.

And where are the Transit van, Sierra and Cotina made? Can't argue with you, but still not a fair comparison to the US Ford product line. Consider where the raw material and labor comes from. Ford probably should have reevaluated why they fnd those plants also. With Sheffield being the epicenter of steel making technology, why use Asian imported sheetmetal?

I personally rank Starbucks one step up from Cuban coffee, so thick the spoon won't even fall over. Try a cup of Green Mountain if you ever have the chance. You also have Marlboro cigarettes. I personally don't smoke anymore, but if your Marlboros were the only choice, that alone would be enough reason to quit. They're made in Sweden, without that (in)famous Carolina tobacco. You have MacDonalds, made with Spanish beef and cereal. Wimpys was better. Everytime I came over to our UK plants, they asked me to bring American Marlboros and Coors, to each his own, in a country with the best Ales in the world, why anyone would want that water is beyond me. I don't dispute, you have some serious quality challanged products with American names, but I can asure you, with very little if any US material, or labor content. I have spent weeks at a time over there, for over 20 years, and it never ceases to amaze me how well you do some things. With a rail system like yours, why are your motorways so clogged up? Spent much time on the M25 at rush hour? I spent a year there one day. I was occassionally embarrassed me to see a US company name on some of the things I saw made over there. This has sods all to do with Ford (Detroit USA) and their warnings to LR to improve quality, but don't compare Ford UK or Ford Gmbh with Detroit, you simply don't know what you're taking about.

[130CC]

Originally Posted by spectric

If they radically change it then it won't be a defender, and as the SUV market is catered for by the disco & range rover whilst the softroader market is handled by the freelander this would leave no where for the defender.

no where for the defender ahhh but what about the military, police, mining companies and heavens to Betsy the UN maybe they will all end up buying hummers and paying the huge associated fuel bills. If the defender is dropped then long live the Toyota 78 series. That's where I'll go next, in 20, 30, ahh hell it's a landrover it'll be around longer than I will.

[spectric]

Hi all

Well the military are looking into a range of vehicles that include the Pinzhaur and Merc G wagon to replace defenders in many roles. Another area landrover have lost market in is the farming community. Everyone must have noticed the ammount of japanese 4 x 4's with trailers they use and also the Honda quad which is very popular. Think about the price of a defender and what you could buy instead !

I take a very easy view which is that my defender was built by a company that no longer exist. Since then they have changed direction and values with the main emphasis on SUV's and freelanders.

Roy

[Lawnmower]

If ford wants to call things in the UK and america Fords, then in this world market whih you pointed out that we DO have, then I'm afraid that if one brand in one country is crap, then the brand in the country thousands of miles away will also be called crap. If Ford doesn't want this to happen, then perhaps they should market their goods differently. I.e. Vauxall and Opel.

As I recall (this maybe out of date), Ford owns a large chunk of Mazda, and I think the Mazda MX5 is a brilliant car.

As for the roads being clogged up, this is due to crap public service not helped by the fact that train travel is so expensive. It cost me £25 to go 150 miles by train, the return journey was done in my nelly aquired Land rover. Fuel cost about £25, time 4.5 hours. over 2.5 hours QUICKER than the train. Hell I can fly to Prague for that!

[spectric]

Hi all

Having worked in the car industry for many years I must admit that the british did make rather to many mistakes and produce some awfull motor cars.

But it was all to obvious to everyone except those working in positions of management that the car industry would follow the motorcycle industry down the same plug hole. The british are not that bad at design & production but really bloody useless when it comes to managing a factory. Look at how productive Japanese car plants are in the Uk.

How can you ever call the MGB Gt a sports car, it's just a leyland product with the roof removed or the Mg miget. Then we had the Morris minor, what a pile of s__t that was & the Germans had the Vw Beetle, like comparing a cruise missile to a handgrenade, Alpha Romeo had the GTV's and we built Escorts, Viva's & Marina's !

But out of all this chaos and crap came the Landrover, in my opinion the only truly outstanding vehicle made by us, but then even they have turned there back on their herritage and started producing softroaders and SUV's.

Roy

[LRLandRover]

Hello everyone

I'm new to this forum

Before I start let me say that I have been a LR devotee for ever. For goodness sake they invented the 4wd for everyday use in the form of the Range Rover much like Renualt invented the people carrier. In the last 2 years I've had 3 Discovery's, my current is a series ll V8i Auto Premuim with all the toy's So I believe my LR credentials are as good as anyone

Now to the reason for my post.

I fully understand Fords threats there is a great deal of dis-satisfation amongst owners & one of the primary reasons for the dis-satisfaction is the Freelander (primarily the petrol version) because of it's propencity to overheat thereby ruining the Engine (amongst other things the cyl liners slip & the HG fails). The engine has a well known design fault (identified by LR & Rover Group 4-5 years ago). Nevertheless LR continued to supply it & still do as a replacement with the result that it to fails again. Customer dis-satisfaction is compounded by LR's attempts to avoid their legal obligations to owners. Until very recently owners acted alone allowing LR to pick them off. An action committee has been formed & one of the 1st things we have noticed (& fully expected) amongst owners who have registered how owners in identical circumstance received wildly different treatment from LR. We are only able to identify this conduct by LR because each claim is being identified in relation to the others.
If anyone would like to tell us about their experiences please go to the website at http://freelander.webhop.co.uk or type freelander head gasket problem. Thanks

[Series 3 guy]

Originally Posted by SydneyViking

Hey Terry - or is that Henry...?

You Americans just don't get it do you?..Just because you adopted Napoleons idea or driving on the left doesn't make you right(er). I suppose it was sheer bloody-mindedness over the war of independence that saw you keeping it. (didn't want to be the same as the British i suppose).

If you have so many problems with LR, I have two questions for you.

1)What are you doing haunting a LR site
2)Why don't you just go and buy a US built offroader that has the capability and Style of a LR

Finding it tricky to find one I suppose? Oh there's always the ML Merc!

If you were not aware previously, US made vehicles have long been the laughing stock of the world automotive industry. Your productivity, quality and design have been a byword for mediocracy.

Whilst LR do not have the best record in the build quality stakes, the record of having more than 70% of the vehicles they have produced still in working order does take some beating.

LR produces vehicles with soul. Unfortunately this concept is lost on Ford's bean counters as they sold theirs a long time ago

capability and style???? Thats rich mate...Dont you own a freelander.If I'm not mistaken that IS the laughing stock of the Land Rover world!!! Dont throw rocks in a glass Landrover house,especialy if you drive one of the MOST unreliable Landy's ever made. Thanks for buying it though the cash you blew goes towards keeping the company alive to build the rest of us Trucks not toys. Mediocracy??? Your driving it mate.

[Series 3 guy]

Originally Posted by onslow

We Brits dont care what you invented or designed.

WE INVENTED THE LANDROVER AND THAT IS WHY YOU ARE HERE.



ONz OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well put!!! I love the comment about "Suited Gimps" Too funny!!!!!

[SCSL]

Originally Posted by SydneyViking

LR produces vehicles with soul.

Unfortunately, Ford doesn't.

I still think the new NAS Defender roll-out will determine the future of LR, whether it remains a unique marque, or goes the way of the Volvo, Jag, etc. Unfortunately, my hopes are not up.

[onslow]

Originally Posted by DevynsDad

If the current production staff in Solihull can't translate the "subtlety, sophistication and style" of the Land Rover designs into a reliable and desirable product for every market it has to compete in, they can't expect Ford to continue footing the bill for tradition and history.

If memory serves, there's a reason that the British automotive industry was almost dead prior to foreign acquisition of nearly every marque: Quality. I'll freely admit that Jaguar, Land Rover, Austin, MG, Aston Martin, etc. have produced some of the most stylish and sophisticated autos of the last fifty years. But while the rest of the industialized world was upping the ante on quality and reliabilty to get ahead of the competition, the UK was continuing to refine the style and subtlety of their vehicles.

Don't get me wrong, I'd hate to see Ford close the plant in Soluhill. But if the workers can't meet the production and quality goals agreed to by their union, Ford might need to shake things up a bit more.

I blame the likes of BMW and Ford for the demise of Landrover they came along and revolutionised machines that have sucessfully evolved over the last 50 years,they are technology mad trying to force it opon a company that built its reputation on simplicity.Computers and muddy water just doesnt mix my 8 year old boy knows not to drop his gameboy in a puddle coz it wont work again so why cant these tossers see this!!!

[Ryan Roundy]

Now what's this about American cars all having bad gas milage? I own an '86 Ford F-350 Double Cab Duelly truck, it's ugly, it's slow, it actually is comfortable, it just turned 300,000 miles with only ever having to replace the fuel pump once in it, and as huge as it is, it gets better gas mileage than my Landrover. Not Enough for you? I was shocked when I was living in England, and found that my '76 firebird back home, with a 400 cubic inch V8 got about 1 mile to the gallon better than my Vauxhaul Corsa, and yes, I know our gallons are different, that factor was considered when comparing. Don't get me wrong, I love my landrover, but don't go off on gas mileage when my brothers Satern gets over 30 mpg. Now I know Vauxhaul is GM owned, but it's not designed and built by Americans.

[Disco]

I will now wade into the discussion.

Personally, I don't care if Land Rovers are (according to the various posts) the worst built, most unreliable and thirstiest vehicles ever built. I own two Discovery's and I love every inch of them. I enjoy working on them even if at times it may require "bush'" repairs when off road. Mine have been extremely reliable, and, I don't care about the price of petrol. My wife and daughter both own Range Rovers and I just bought my son a 95' D1.
If any of you think LRovers are crap, I suggest you spend some time on any of the other (non Land Rover) vehicle Forums. You will find the same issues/bitches debated, as is the case here.

[TerryS]

Originally Posted by onslow

I blame the likes of BMW and Ford for the demise of Landrover :

Last Time I checked, Land Rover was still here, Onslow. It's pretty hard to undo the ownerships of BMW or Ford, But I seriously question whether they would be here had either, or both of these two companies not bellied up to the bar and put their money down.

Once and for all, I wish you bellyaching Ford and BMW haters would use some facts in your statements. What, exactly, can you point to that has harmed, not helped Land Rover? Everybody is so cocksure full of opinions, but I don't see anyone giving anything more than opinions, generally based on their love or hate of a car company that their father loved or hated. Usually just a bunch of bull$hit.

Unlike the British Motorcycle industry, whose labor unions and management ignored a little pain-in-the-ass company called Honda, The survivors of The British Automobile Industry today thrive today because they sought out foreign investment and input. The employees at Jaguar are lucky somebody had the balls to cut the deadwood, before they ended up in the history books with Jowett Jupitor, Hillman and a huge asortment of companies who thought they could go on forever on their reputation. Face it, we may all love these old Land Rovers, but the way the quality was going, and the downwardly plummeting consumer confidence, Were it not for Ford, and to some part the efforts BMW put into it in their final year, Land Rover would be in precisely the same kettle as the Rover Car Company.

[Series 3 guy]

Originally Posted by TerryS

Last Time I checked, Land Rover was still here, Onslow. It's pretty hard to undo the ownerships of BMW or Ford, But I seriously question whether they would be here had either, or both of these two companies not bellied up to the bar and put their money down.

Once and for all, I wish you bellyaching Ford and BMW haters would use some facts in your statements. What, exactly, can you point to that has harmed, not helped Land Rover? Everybody is so cocksure full of opinions, but I don't see anyone giving anything more than opinions, generally based on their love or hate of a car company that their father loved or hated. Usually just a bunch of bull$hit.

Unlike the British Motorcycle industry, whose labor unions and management ignored a little pain-in-the-ass company called Honda, The survivors of The British Automobile Industry today thrive today because they sought out foreign investment and input. The employees at Jaguar are lucky somebody had the balls to cut the deadwood, before they ended up in the history books with Jowett Jupitor, Hillman and a huge asortment of companies who thought they could go on forever on their reputation. Face it, we may all love these old Land Rovers, but the way the quality was going, and the downwardly plummeting consumer confidence, Were it not for Ford, and to some part the efforts BMW put into it in their final year, Land Rover would be in precisely the same kettle as the Rover Car Company.

Well said Terry!!! I love Land rover and am thankful someone out there saw in LR what we do and brought some cash to the table to keep our loved ones alive. The only harm Ford or anyone else has done is perhaps created some designs that need to grow on us.They said the new 5 series BMW was a design disaster but it sure sells well enough.Perhaps its because an American designed it ??? Who knows what envy lies outhere.The Germans liked the car enough to put it into tripple mass production....perhaps next we will hear how the Germans are the laughing stock of the Auto world and how Americans are bringing BMW down as well. Same for Jaguar if Ford didn't financialy give the kiss of life to them Jag would have been history.That said not sure even the bottemless pit of cash Ford has at theyre disposal is still going to save Jag from themselves.

[TerryS]

Originally Posted by LRLandRover

Hello everyone

I'm new to this forum

Before I start let me say that I have been a LR devotee for ever. For goodness sake they invented the 4wd for everyday use in the form of the Range Rover much like Renualt(I think Volkswagen Might justifiably argue with you here) invented the people carrier. In the last 2 years I've had 3 Discovery's, (why so many in so short a time?)my current is a series ll V8i Auto Premuim with all the toy's So I believe my LR credentials are as good as anyone Then I guess since I have had over a dozen in more than 30 years, I can disagree with you?
Now to the reason for my post.

I fully understand Fords threats there is a great deal of dis-satisfation amongst owners & one of the primary reasons for the dis-satisfaction is the Freelander There are relatively few Freelanders over here, compared with the number of Discoverys, and Range Rovers, yet Land Rover was, until VERY recently, the absolute last in all major surveys in customer satisfaction. It seems unlikely that the Freelander can be blamed for the poor rep, in the US, which, incedently, is Land Rovers largest export customer. (primarily the petrol version) because of it's propencity to overheat thereby ruining the Engine (amongst other things the cyl liners slip & the HG fails). The Freelander only comes to the US with a V6, and has no history of overheating The engine has a well known design fault (identified by LR & Rover Group 4-5 years ago). Nevertheless LR continued to supply it & still do as a replacement with the result that it to fails again. Land Rover should have suspended sales when they recognized the problem, but people kept buying the 1.8 in lieu of the 2.6 despite knowing about the headgasket problem. Why, to save a few hundred quid at the dealer or a few hundred quid in the ownership lifetime, on fuel? sure sends a mixed message back to the company. Customer dis-satisfaction is compounded by LR's attempts to avoid their legal obligations to owners. Until very recently owners acted alone allowing LR to pick them off. An action committee has been formed & one of the 1st things we have noticed (& fully expected) amongst owners who have registered how owners in identical circumstance received wildly different treatment from LR. We are only able to identify this conduct by LR because each claim is being identified in relation to the others.
If anyone would like to tell us about their experiences please go to the website at http://freelander.webhop.co.uk or type freelander head gasket problem. Thanks

Fact is, the Range Rover, between the P38A introduction, and the introduction of the Bosch management , in mid 1999 was perhaps the biggest reason Land Rover was suffering in the reputation department. Gems equipped Discoverys were running a close 2nd in complaints. There used to be a standing joke about the number of Discos that came in for service on the back of a car carrier, as opposed to the number that could get back there on their own.
Land Rovers decision to call the newest Discovery LR3, in the US was to dissassociate the public from the past, not lay claim to it's heritage.
One of our current 6 Land Rovers is a my wife's Freelander. If there's anything remarkable about it, it's that it is so unroverish, it just keeps going. The only problem in 41K miles was a windscreen wiper issue, and a buzzing RF door speaker. We have had, and currently have Range Rovers, Discoverys, Defenders, Series trucks, and a Freelander, the only one which, day in and day out, we don't give a thought to reliability.