Ford threatens Land Rover

[garland823]

honestly, i would rather see land rover die than see them building hybrids, unless that was simply to allow them to spend money on a real Rover. a hybrid is much more un-rover than anything like the LR3 or RRS. really, a hybrid in an SUV is undeniably stupid. there's no point. SUV's serve two purposes that a station wagon or a minivan cannot-towing, and offroading. a hybrid could do neither. while people may be a little apprehensive about wheeling an $85k range rover, they can still tow with it, and it still can offroad when the need arises.
EDIT: i was thinking about this at dinner. this may not be well known, but nike was started on the feet of runners. the head track coach at the university of oregon, bill bowerman, made all the shoes his athletes wore. eventually, his operation grew into the bohemoth it is today, and while there is exponentially more money in basketball and soccer and football, nike has not forgotten track. i don't know the exact numbers, but they definitely do not make a large profit off of their track spikes, and may even be losing money, but they still put in the energy to make the best spikes on the market. why cant LR do this?

[Adam in NYC USA]

Originally Posted by garland823

honestly, i would rather see land rover die than see them building hybrids, unless that was simply to allow them to spend money on a real Rover. a hybrid is much more un-rover than anything like the LR3 or RRS. really, a hybrid in an SUV is undeniably stupid. there's no point. SUV's serve two purposes that a station wagon or a minivan cannot-towing, and offroading. a hybrid could do neither. while people may be a little apprehensive about wheeling an $85k range rover, they can still tow with it, and it still can offroad when the need arises.

EDIT: i was thinking about this at dinner. this may not be well known, but nike was started on the feet of runners. the head track coach at the university of oregon, bill bowerman, made all the shoes his athletes wore. eventually, his operation grew into the bohemoth it is today, and while there is exponentially more money in basketball and soccer and football, nike has not forgotten track. i don't know the exact numbers, but they definitely do not make a large profit off of their track spikes, and may even be losing money, but they still put in the energy to make the best spikes on the market. why cant LR do this?

Thank you for bringing this thought provocating theme to this forum. It was one of the the original reasons why I began the thread of electric hybrids in the hybrid section. Thus, I write the opposing point of view:

EVERY PIECE OF LARGE TRANSPORTATION USES HYBRID TECHNOLOGY.

Locomotives, those large earthmovers, and most modern marine propulsion uses the same technology used in those first generation hybrids. There is a combustion engine connected electrically to a electrical generator and then the real magic begins.

Can Land Rover make one? YES. Will it work better? YES.

Imagine a Land Rover with a dedicated engine and tranny to each wheel, not just any axle. With the proper design and programming, the same vehicle will do the autobahn and then with a flip of switch, do off-road with nary a blip.

Ford's chairman is just doing what he can, in a market of endless clones. Land Rover is a marque that has gone to the four corners of the earth. Now is the time to do using it as the most eco-friendly and also do it in a Land Rover.

Lets talk and learn.

Adam in NYC

[SCSL]

I would love a hybrid LR,,,or better an electric. It would be trail-use only & crawl like a freakin' fiend for the reasons Adam lists above. No lockers required. Highly controlled acceleration (and engine braking). Mad traction.

[garland823]

word. i had no idea. well lets hope of LR does go to hybrid, they don't go ford escape on us and actually goes hardcore.

[SCSL]

Therein lies the problem,,,I'm not sure hybrid I have in mind is on the same page as Ford's concepts. I'm thinking: Jeep Hurricane,,,, they're thinking: bring the kids to the game.

[Discrover]

Originally Posted by SCSL

I would love a hybrid LR,,,or better an electric. It would be trail-use only & crawl like a freakin' fiend for the reasons Adam lists above. No lockers required. Highly controlled acceleration (and engine braking). Mad traction.

If I could get a 300TDI in my Disco I would be estatic...I am hoping to convert it in the next 2 yrs as soon as everything else is done. I have put almost 185'000 miles on my gas hawg since 1995. My goal is to get 250'000 out of the original 3.9...by the time I hit the 250,000 mark I will have the money to do a diesel conversion instead of buying another truck. I will just do a complete frame up Restoration on my 1994 D1 - SE7.

My brother-n-law and I, just finished doing a frame up Restoration on a 1989 Suzuki Samurai...that we rolled just a few weeks ago...so we have already tore it back down...pulled the roof and windshield out of it...repaired all the damage...repaired the interior roll cage along with speaker bar that got bent over my head as we rolled.

We pulled all the interior out of it...sand blasted the floor pans and entire bed and Ryno lined the total interior. We are now putting a VW TDI in it...this is the future for my D1.

We have already done complete body repair and painted the Sammy since rolling it...

That is the great thing about wheelin a Sammy...they are so freaking light they climb like a billy goat...and if you roll it or whatever it took us all of a week to repair the entire passenger side crushed in roof...to have it back new looking again...we did all the work ourselves...found another Sammy at an Al's PICK-A-PART wrecking yard pulled all the parts we needed...and total costs was around $75 dollars...couple hundred for the paint and RynoLining and the truck is ready for the trail again.

I enjoy looking at this website and dreaming about my veggie oil powered D1.
http://www.roverhybrids.com

[aturner71]

Not to give Ford a kudo, but didn't they buy Jaguar? How is Jaguar doing now? Ford buying Land Rover is by no way anything to carry a torch about. I just hope it's a growing pain and Land Rover gains rather that loses in this purchase.

I was never really a "Ford Kinda Guy". I now own an Expedition, which has been good for my wife. No problems (knock on wood) and my just purchased Disco II has also been very good (again knock on wood). Ford through the purchase of foriegn automotive corps has become a better product over it's American competitors.

By no way am I an automotive historian. I just thought I'd give my opinion.

Long live Land Rover! I truly love mine and I can not explain why. You just have to own one to understand. And everyone here can understand.

[garland823]

Originally Posted by aturner71

Not to give Ford a kudo, but didn't they buy Jaguar? How is Jaguar doing now? Ford buying Land Rover is by no way anything to carry a torch about. I just hope it's a growing pain and Land Rover gains rather that loses in this purchase.

very true. but look at the new e type or whatever it is. its an automatic . very much good could come out of ford ownership, but so far, from an enthusiast's perspective, it hasn't.

[Rovin4life]

ok, been on all three sides, ford, jag, and lr.

Heres the deal. when Jag got bought out, Ford said get better quality. They did and ten years later they surpassed Ford and Lincoln for better quality.

LR was behind the times still. BMW helped a bit. But the BMW engine still has its problems. Be careful of the extreme cold. Your RR will either blow up or misfire. Anyway LR got a little better and Ford allowed them to redevelop the Discovery into what it is today. Ford has been a vast improvement. For instance Ford diagnostics are far superior. Ok, not to BMW but still better. Even when BMW owned LR they didnt share the diag systems.

The coventry plant produces the motors for both Jag and LR and they are quite good. I work in a Jag and LR shop and those motors rarely come out.

LR will not die. It is apart of the Ford Premier group. A group that has its own way of doing things and is doing alot better. Its funny but the brits are the ones that can now say they are the better vehicle producers over the germans. Its a fact. Everyone mistakes price with reliability. And that is far from the truth. The british sucked it up and did something about their image and changed for the better. The Germans havent learned it yet.

[SCSL]

Originally Posted by beezel

Anyway LR got a little better and Ford allowed them to redevelop the Discovery into what it is today. Ford has been a vast improvement.

Sure, if you're looking for just another car/SUV,,, but what about the features, capabilities, and modification-friendliness that made LR famous ?

Currently, the brand does not offer a coil-sprung vehicle. It does not offer a solid-axle vehicle.

[Rovin4life]

So what about a solid axle vehicle. You get more articulation and better response with live axles. Every truck in the US uses a Live axles up front. Makes for better handling. you dont rock as much. Trust me I have driven all the models.

And the terrain response is really really user friendly. Just stop what your doing and put the vehicle in the terrain response mode and it will tell you to turn on low range or not. yes it takes the smarts of out offroading but trust me going down an 30 degree incline on wet leaves makes you glad the computer takes over. it makes faster decisions and smarter ones.

remember the air ride goes up and down. It allows you to go offroad higher. Its a cheaper decision then trying to serious modify your vehicle to go off road.


remember the LR3 was intelligently designed to go off road. Ok. I have seen the original test vehicle in DC. Basically they hooked up sensors all around the vehicle and used that info to guage what the vehicle is doing to accurately control it in a veriety of terrain.

remember you dont have to modify it to enjoy it off road. Ok maybe a bit of lite guards and mud tires for that thick stuff but trust me it will work.

[SCSL]

I'm not dogging LR3, believe me. I've always been a supporter of broadening LRs appeal and appreciate that LR3 is 1) a great vehicle and 2) keeps LR in business.

My gripe is more that there's no "heritage" vehicle in the LR line-up,,,no serious off-roader. Not even a limited edition retro rig. My fear is that LR, in broadening it's appeal, is straying so far from it's roots & heritage and that eventually, in a market crowded with high-end luxury SUVs, this will come back to haunt them.

LR3 seems like a great SUV,,,but is it distinct enough to keep the brand unique & alive? I'm not so sure. The LR brand, without a serious off-roader and/or bare-bones model is like the Jeep brand w/out a Wrangler,,, lost in the crowd.

[Rovin4life]

dont worry about that. They killed the Freelander because it was so dismal a vehicle. They are looking too Volvo to help them out in 2007.

anyway the Defender is coming back. Especially to US specs. reason is they canned it in 1997 because of emmisions. Plus diesels dont sell well so they made another poor decision.

but the defender needed an update anyway. Most likely you will see the american version based off a shortene LR3 platform and with the Mustang 4.0 thats but landrovered. And no it wont have terrain response.

[Rovin4life]

oh and LR3 is a serious off roader. It just doesnt look it. Trust me. My boss took a few up to Chatueau Montebello with a HD thats the HSE with the locking diffs. Anyway they did some serious off roading there at the school. Going up rocks and stuff.

and the Sport is also capable. It went to Moab Utah for some serious off roading in May before she was released to the public. Only a few priveliged owners got to go if they could afford it.

And also the LR3 and the Sport were both used in the G4 challenge.

http://www.landroverg4challenge.com/...ults.asp?mst=1

here you see both vehicles in action. The only thing they needed were various guards some off road tires and of course a winch. Nothing else really needed to make it a serious off roader. Its that dial that replaces all the rought iron you see on the old ones.

[garland823]

Originally Posted by beezel

oh and LR3 is a serious off roader. It just doesnt look it. Trust me. My boss took a few up to Chatueau Montebello with a HD thats the HSE with the locking diffs. Anyway they did some serious off roading there at the school. Going up rocks and stuff.

and the Sport is also capable. It went to Moab Utah for some serious off roading in May before she was released to the public. Only a few priveliged owners got to go if they could afford it.

And also the LR3 and the Sport were both used in the G4 challenge.

http://www.landroverg4challenge.com/...ults.asp?mst=1

here you see both vehicles in action. The only thing they needed were various guards some off road tires and of course a winch. Nothing else really needed to make it a serious off roader. Its that dial that replaces all the rought iron you see on the old ones.

go to the offroad section of this forum, and find the thread titled "SCSL at the mall". think an LR3 could do that? the LR3 is an amazing offroader stock, but that doesn't mean it can compete with the best fully modded trucks. and terrain response is like putting an automatic transmission into a ferrari...it takes all the fun outta driving.