Ford threatens Land Rover

[Adam in NYC USA]

Originally Posted by beezel

dont worry about that. They killed the Freelander because it was so dismal a vehicle. They are looking too Volvo to help them out in 2007.

The last "Car & Driver" had spy photos of the new 2007 Freelander. Transverse engine, only four door, and slight larger with systems from the LR3 and RRS. The model should be out by end of 2006.

Photos follow as soon as I finish agruing with the photopaint program.

Adam in NYC

[Adam in NYC USA]

Originally Posted by Adam in NYC USA

The last "Car & Driver" had spy photos of the new 2007 Freelander. Transverse engine, only four door, and slight larger with systems from the LR3 and RRS. The model should be out by end of 2006.

Photos follow as soon as I finish agruing with the photopaint program.

Adam in NYC

From "Car and Driver" on Spike-TV, no correction from using PowerDVD.

[Rovin4life]

we got word in the dealerships that they were borrowing a Volvo engine and tranny. at least we wont be doing anymore engines and trannies on a regular basis like we do now.

Hell the dealership actually has a Freelander motor just waiting to be installed.

and maybe the Volvo wont have the dreaded twelve hour timing belt replacement like the current freelander.

For the few souls that make it that far when we tell them how much the just turn the car in and buy something else. it then goes to the auction.

Only one guy has done a freelander timing belt and that was at school.

[keptin]

Originally Posted by Adam in NYC USA

From "Car and Driver" on Spike-TV, no correction from using PowerDVD.

hehe, were you just watching car and driver a couple hours ago when they showed it? I recorded it, but have no way to take a tape and put it on my comp.

[Adam in NYC USA]

Originally Posted by keptin

hehe, were you just watching car and driver a couple hours ago when they showed it? I recorded it, but have no way to take a tape and put it on my comp.

Well, I will tell you my secret. I have a ILO DVD burner (cheap at Walmart, was $99, now a bit more)and I recorded the PowerBlock to DVD+RW. I then played the PowerBlock on my laptop using PowerDVD when I got up after working an all-nighter.

PowerDVD on XP then lets you do screen capture,provided you turn off any hardware acceleration.

I then saved the bmp files and then converted them to JPG using the GIMP on SuSE Linux 10.

I think I do more off-roading on my laptop then in my D1. And yes, I watch the PowerBlock at work when things are slow. Did you notice Danica Patrick is also selling Peak antifreeze in a comercial? The comercial makers made it look like a makeup commercial with closeups to her eyes.

Adam in NYC

[TerryS]

Originally Posted by beezel

anyway the Defender is coming back. Especially to US specs. reason is they canned it in 1997 because of emmisions. Plus diesels dont sell well so they made another poor decision.

You keep mentioning Emmissions and Defenders in the same context. If you do a little homewrok and check the history PRE import, you would know that the NAS 110 was limited to 500 vehicles, not counting CN1-10, LRNA 1-25, BEFORE the first one evr arrived in the fall of 1992.
Engine management was the same as the '92 RR and '92 Discovery, UK vewrsion with 14CUX. NHTSA never gave Land Rover Homologation, hence the restricted number; No crash tests, No impact absorbing bumpers, no side impact beams, no passive restraint system, non conforming dashboard. EPA gave the defender a green light, as they had done on all previously submitted vehicles with 14CUX. 14 CUX was developed for the US, based on 14 CU, and 14CU was abandoned after that because emmission levels were not only acceptable, they were in the lowest quarter of the acceptable range.
Even with HC & CO levels having been tightened since then, a properly timed 14CUX will still deliver great emmissions test results ( my 4.2 powered 110 just got a 8ppm HC, even Bosch systems don't give that.
Defender 90s began arriving in the fall of 1993 and didn't sell of at the end of the year, nor did the 94s that arrived in the later half of '94. Same was true of the '95 model, they didn't sell off at year end.

You might find the figures posted on Ottowa Valleys site informative (http://www.lrfaq.org/)
NHTSA gave Land Rover approval for 2500 '97 model year imports, and they brought in 2501. one was submitted for crash testing (that one was recently purchased by Lenny, at Roversland and rebuilt) and it failed. THAT, in a nutshell is why Defenders were limited imports, and stopped coming in 1997. Not to mention the dealers were unable to sell off existing stock at year end,NOT for emmissions problems.
It's ironic that people are willing to spend as much as they do on 110s, when at the end of 1993, dealers were discounting the hell out of the $39,990 sticker, just to get rid of them.
You sound like you know your stuff on the currewnt range of product and I guess customers may take comfort in that, but you need to do a little boning up on historical information re the older trucks.

[Rovin4life]

your right about the defender. I was still in college when they ended the defender.

whats ironic about them is one in good shape fetches a good prices. Better then a disco or RR the same year.

we have a few customers bring their in. One or two have everything. And they dont take them off road. no rust on these vehicles at all.

whats funny is we had one guy leave his hard top off and pick up the truck in the middle of february.

it was cold. He had his gloves on and everything. That man was brave. If was five degrees below zero out when he left.

[TerryS]

They bring crazy prices simply based on the numbers available, but add to that the appeal to those that want them, of being a direct descendant of the original Land Rover ( well, at least in 'shape' if nothing more) A defender with no rust is even rarere still, as they have serious rust issues in areas such as body cappings no longer galvanized, footwells, Bulkhead posts and frame (still )

Back to the emmissions thingy a minute. The '97 Defender did not turn in the low levels previosly had on the 93,94 and 95 Defenders, but no worse than the '96 & 97 Disco (automatics) Disco 5 speeds did turn in better numbers, but there again they didn't, and still can't match the 3.5, 3.9 & 4.2 engines with 14 CUX. One of the reasons "may" be in the way the Gems mapping performs, but It's my belief that the biggest reason is the non-distributor ignition turns in a lower energy spark. Individual coil packs don't have the wallop a lucas or bosch coil have, and, (this is news to people who got into the game after the distributor dissappeared) The spark at the plug is stronger BECAUSE of the distributor 'accelerator' effect. The gap between the rotor arm and 8 individual contacts inside the cap is another spark. Anytime you add a 2nd gap the intensity of the two will be greater than had there only been one (the plug) gap. You can prove this out for yourself when you encounter a fouled plug, causing a miss. If you pull the plug wire off the the top of the plug, but keep it within 1/8" to 1/4", you will intensify the spark at the plug electrode, often enough to burn away the fouled debris.
I don't know if anyone still sells them but there used to be an accelerator you could plug into the center of your distributor and the coil wire into it. It was made to look like some fancy hightech thing, but all it did was brreak the wire with an internal gap, accelerating the final spark.
I'll be the first to admit, I know didlyshit about the newest generation products, but I cut my teeth on the more basic models MANY years ago.
Did you know Land Rover was hoping to bring the Range Rover to the US sooner, and the carburated 3.5 could not make the numbers, hence the beginings of the EFI engines.

[Rovin4life]

that I didnt know about. Our Dealership got started when they introduced the Range rover in the late eighties. We werent one of the first true LR dealers but we were one of the earlier ones.

[LRWheelman]

That the components of your beloved ford f-series, or explorers, were even made in America by Americans? Maybe the fender stampings were, but I would say from my experience that's about it. Yes, most all of the rest of the components have been made south of the border, way south (Brazil) since about 1980. I know that I may be a little off on the date, and I am sure that you will point that out to me. I used to be a "Ford Truck Man" with my F-350, but then I GREW UP, WISED UP, Whatever you may wish to call it. As far as cross-pollination between Land Rover & ferd goes, who do you think builds the V-6 in the 2006 Discovery? Duh! Why does the wheelbase now match the explorer? No, the LR3 was not put on the explorer chassis, the chassis was re-designed to fit them BOTH! Why are you even trying to compare my sister's grocery getter (explorer) to a real four wheel drive is totally beyond me. I have MUCH experience with the ferd econoline vans, probably one of the most unsafe vehicles to ever roll off an assembly line anywhere. It has NEVER passed the NHTSA test for roll over, even on computer simulations @ half speed (approx. 17 mph) yet is still built the same way 13 years later! Of course, they changed the truck suspensions a few years ago to make them drive more like, what Land Rovers? With outboard mounted shocks & so forth. ALL cars are only as good as you maintain them, and ALL cars break down. Thank you, LRWheelman

[Adam in NYC USA]

Originally Posted by LRWheelman

That the components of your beloved ford f-series, or explorers, were even made in America by Americans? Maybe the fender stampings were, but I would say from my experience that's about it.

The revised Ford plant in Michigan does all the doors and fenders all the same time on the largest hydraulic press on the plant.

Originally Posted by LRWheelman

Yes, most all of the rest of the components have been made south of the border, way south (Brazil) since about 1980. I know that I may be a little off on the date, and I am sure that you will point that out to me. I used to be a "Ford Truck Man" with my F-350, but then I GREW UP, WISED UP, Whatever you may wish to call it. As far as cross-pollination between Land Rover & ferd goes, who do you think builds the V-6 in the 2006 Discovery? Duh! Why does the wheelbase now match the explorer? No, the LR3 was not put on the explorer chassis, the chassis was re-designed to fit them BOTH! Why are you even trying to compare my sister's grocery getter (explorer) to a real four wheel drive is totally beyond me. I have MUCH experience with the ferd econoline vans, probably one of the most unsafe vehicles to ever roll off an assembly line anywhere. It has NEVER passed the NHTSA test for roll over, even on computer simulations @ half speed (approx. 17 mph) yet is still built the same way 13 years later! Of course, they changed the truck suspensions a few years ago to make them drive more like, what Land Rovers? With outboard mounted shocks & so forth. ALL cars are only as good as you maintain them, and ALL cars break down. Thank you, LRWheelman

Not for nothing, but is there a point to this Ford bashing?

The war is over. Ford bought out Jag and LandRover, period. Ford is the owner, they can do as they please. End of story. If there is a story we should be looking at, it is this.

Ford is trying to get the brownie points by building 250,000 hybrid vehicles by 2010. It is trying to turn the auto market around to effect change in response to the fine mess we have created.

Land Rover, in this epoch, is no longer the brand for cheap off-road transportation. It is regarded as a fringe brand for wanna-be geeks who got $60,000 to spend to say "I got a LandRover".

You can talk bad all you want, but unless you have the pockets to buy Land Rover, all the hot air in the world is not going to change things.

It is either gotta come from within or by the sellers.

[LRWheelman]

And the rest is made in mexico, brazil, & other places where the EPA isn't lookin' for contamination of the water supply. The point is; as I set one day, hood up, lookin' for the problem, a "Ford Truck Man" pulled up and said: "That's what happens when you drive them foreign ones", to which I responded: "I suppose you think yours is american?". He said "hell yeah, it's a ford". Completely clueless. At least I have an idea where my truck came from. Thank You, LRWheelman

[FrankS]

Originally Posted by Steve83

The WORLD automotive industry??? You wanna guess what percent of the WORLD automotive industry IS US-made vehicles? I don't have a number, but I'd be willing to bet my Gross National Product that it's more than 75%! And where do you think that industry came from? British technology, innovation, & creativity? WRONG!!! The automobile came from Germany (Karl Benz) and the only reason it could be produced at a reasonable cost was because Henry Ford invented chromolly steel and the production line (maybe you've heard of them). And ALL modern design (automotive & otherwise) is based on "Finite Element Analysis"; an analytical design technique created by...


Anyone?



Anyone?



Bueller?



...Ford Motor Company, USA.
Right - those bloody Yanks! Wanna guess where ABS brakes, EFI, GPS, and the microcomputers to control them ALL came from? Right again - the only country that could build a car that drove on the Moon. How far have Rovers gone?

So what exactly are you laughing at?

Just on a lighter note, In Australia we call English people (not Scots or Welsh) Pommie's. Near the conclusion of WWII in Europe, the Yanks (what we call Americans) and the Russians rushed into Berlin to capture the German Rocket scientists, the Pommies rushed in and Captured Herr Rootes, one of his contributions to world history is the Rootes type Blowers, but he also designed some of the worst diesel engines ever built. The Commer Knocker was one, 3 cylinder 2 stroke flat (like a VW or Subaru) engine with 6 pistons that ignited in the middle of the Cylinders, the pistons are attached to con rods that are connected to 3 enormous rocker arms each end of the cylinder block, which then connected by another set of con rods to a Crankshaft which sat under the centre line of the cylinder block. What a Nightmare, at least the Yanks hi-jacked some real smart dudes who built their rockets and got that buggy on the moon. If it weren't for the Yanks our Land & Range Rovers wouldn't have that sweet little Nail Head Buick V8 and conversley the Pom's built Land Rover which can claim that 70% of all their cars are still going. For all the Aussies out there where would we be today if Ford England and GM Europe had started building THEIR cars here instead of USA Ford and GM, Food for thought, Regards Frank.