J.D. Power: Faint Praise for Land Rover - Land Rover Forums : Land Rover and Range Rover Forum
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-03-2017, 05:08 AM Thread Starter
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J.D. Power: Faint Praise for Land Rover

Consumer Reports is notoriously biased against Land Rover vehicles, even while they acknowledge their statistical sample size is too small to make solid conclusions. They, like many, cling to the cliche'd and anecdotal notion that Land Rover vehicles are unreliable and not recommended for purchase.

Well, JD Power has issued their 2017 Dependability survey, and in it, Land Rover is rated higher than Ford, Dodge, RAM, Jeep, Infinity, and Fiat. Vehicles rated must be 3 years old, so I believe that puts all current LR models within their latest generation, with the exception of the LR4/Defender.

Furthermore, JD Power calls out LR as one of the most improved brands, and have bracketed them in the "about average" category across the board.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...dability-study

http://www.jdpower.com/ratings/study...y-Make/1881ENG

http://www.jdpower.com/cars/study/20...emium-SUV/1133

This seems to be good news for people like me who are in the market for their first LR vehicle - personally, I'm between a RR Sport SE Td6 and a LR Discovery 5 HSE Td6, subsidized heavily by Volkswagen (thanks, Winterkorn, you jackass). I've lurked on several forums and focused on the L494 RRS sections, and it seems to me there are few reports of "big" problems like Jeep has - transmission failures, oil leaks, engine failures, suspension issues, and other things that keep the car in the shop for days. Those are very evident on the main Jeep forum. For the L494, mostly it seems like the usual buggy infotainment gripes or one-off problems that seem to get fixed and stay fixed.

In its category, the RRS scored higher than the Acura MDX (wow, Honda, how do you nail the Pilot and screw up its luxury stablemate??), Audi Q7, and the Infinity QX60. And that for a complete first-year redesign of the RRS in 2014, as compared to a mid-cycle car in the Q7 in particular.
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 07:08 AM
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Put the crack pipe down. Rover has earned every bit of their reputation for quality issues over the past decades. Do you really think JD Power is responsible for Rover's reliability reputation?

Rover has been an under-funded orphan from birth and have been passed from owner to owner with very little love rubbing off at each stop. None of them really knew what to do with the brand and only BMW put any sort of effort into modernization. Now Tata is finally doing something with them. It's going to take tons of cash and more than a few years to wash away Rover's prior sins.

Gutsy move on Tata's part, taking on the two worst reputations in the auto industry- Rover and Jag.
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 01:08 PM
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I agree
Land Rover earned their reputation.

But glad to see the improvements
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by CT090 View Post
Put the crack pipe down. Rover has earned every bit of their reputation for quality issues over the past decades. Do you really think JD Power is responsible for Rover's reliability reputation?

Rover has been an under-funded orphan from birth and have been passed from owner to owner with very little love rubbing off at each stop. None of them really knew what to do with the brand and only BMW put any sort of effort into modernization. Now Tata is finally doing something with them. It's going to take tons of cash and more than a few years to wash away Rover's prior sins.

Gutsy move on Tata's part, taking on the two worst reputations in the auto industry- Rover and Jag.
.
The reputation was largely spread by people who do not own one.
Most Land/Range Rover owners I know are on the second, third, fourth of fifth one. Hardly something people do when the vehicle is crap.
I do not understand why you continue to try and convince others the vehicles are garbage. You use to quote JD Power ratings are your justification even though they have not supported your view for many years. Now you are appear upset that they are now getting the rating correct.
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 07:31 PM
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Agree. Poor quality.
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by p76rangie View Post
.
The reputation was largely spread by people who do not own one.
Most Land/Range Rover owners I know are on the second, third, fourth of fifth one. Hardly something people do when the vehicle is crap.
I do not understand why you continue to try and convince others the vehicles are garbage. You use to quote JD Power ratings are your justification even though they have not supported your view for many years. Now you are appear upset that they are now getting the rating correct.
Your soooo full of cow excrete I cringe......I convinced your a former Yugo owner and waxed it weekly....
or......weakly......

I was warned, did it anyway......97 Disco STD7..

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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 02:43 PM
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Bought another dead Disco this weekend. Four inch thick stack of service records. Super-well maintained and looks like a new truck inside, outside and underneath. '04 with 105K. Blown head gasket. Got it for a grand.

Craigslist is full of 'em.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 04:23 PM
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Bought another dead Disco this weekend. Four inch thick stack of service records. Super-well maintained and looks like a new truck inside, outside and underneath. '04 with 105K. Blown head gasket. Got it for a grand.

Craigslist is full of 'em.
Name any other brand of car and you will find the same list of dead cars going cheap.
Just because they kept it clean does not mean that it was well maintained.
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-05-2017, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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Put the crack pipe down. Rover has earned every bit of their reputation for quality issues over the past decades. Do you really think JD Power is responsible for Rover's reliability reputation?
Not saying they didn't earn it in previous generations, but the current model generation of RRS is specifically what I'm talking about here, and what is described by JD Power. Also never said JD Power has anything to do with previous reputation problems. Not sure where you got that from.

I wouldn't touch anything earlier than a 2014 RRS because I like cars that work, especially when I'm 40 miles from a paved road. I've spent months on the various LR / RR forums looking at specifically the 2014+ L494 RRS, and they are relatively trouble-free, especially as compared to what the competition is for me. Specifically, Jeep Grand Cherokee (WK2 is a complete sh*tshow from a reliability standpoint), and apparently the Q7/Touareg. I currently own a 2010 Touareg TDI with over 100k miles on the clock, and I can say it's been an absolute dream to own and it's quite the Sherpa on high-altitude dirt and rock, but I can also say that I am in the minority and the planets must have aligned the day mine rolled through the assembly line. It's the only vehicle I've owned where I lost money on the extended warranty for lack of use - and that includes such bastions of long-lived reliability as Subaru and Volvo.

Just saying that it seems to me that the investments in the LR brand and their quality engineering seem to be paying dividends, as supported by my own anecdotal research and now by a reputable vehicle quality assessment, which is sourced from owner reports over a three-year period. And it's especially surprising since they beat essentially Honda in this category.
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 09:41 AM
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The BMW years were the worst motor years for the LR brand. plagued by porous V8 engine blocks that when they over heat the cylinders head liners slip. Ford possibly it's best years using the 4.4 jag engines, although the Diesel has been plagued by lots of failures.
Dave

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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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The BMW years where the worst motor years for the LR brand. plagued by porous V8 engine blocks that when they over heat the cylinders head liners slip. Ford possibly it's best years using the 4.4 jag engines, although the Diesel has been plagued by lots of failures.
Dave
Which Diesel? The Ford/Pugeot Lion 3.0 Td6? Haven't seen anything on any of the forums about that...in any case, perhaps they've worked those bugs out between introduction in Europe and introduction in the States....?

If the Lion has been plagued with failures, what kinds of failures?
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 02:13 PM
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Name any other brand of car and you will find the same list of dead cars going cheap.
Yeah, not really. You just don't see a ten-twelve year old Tahoe, 4Runner, F150 or anything else for sale at scrap-value prices with blown head gaskets as they're well worth fixing.
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 03:15 PM
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I've got to agree. In my area I see lots of discos and range rovers in the 2000 -2004 age range for cheap! $1000-1200.
Why? Because they need work, head gaskets, possibly an engine rebuild (sleeves) and most people are terrified to get involved in it!
On the other hand, I also see trucks of the same age range for sale for $5-7000 being sold as "good trucks"
The reality is the $7000 trucks are likely about the same as the $1000 trucks except the heads /sleeves have not let go yet. That's not to say they may not a month after buying it for way too much.
It seems no one wants a broken one and the uneducated are willing to spend a fair buck for one that has not yet failed!
Makes no sense to me but I will agree that the overall reputation must have some to do with it
Most people would not hesitate to put a engine in a super clean super cheap Tahoe, F150, 4Runner etc.
Really what is the difference?

I drive what I bought as a "super clean , rust free 2002 d2 that had been overheated. Built a solid reliable (so far) engine, did all the catchup maintenance (an extra $1000) and I love it. I was educated before I got into it and new what to expect
I figure I am way ahead of the guys that buy the $7000 trucks and have them bugger up.
I see the same thing starting to happen with LR3s.

Again it kind of hinges on knowledge.
Know what to expect,
know how to maintain,
know what to look for and know how to do a bunch of stuff yourself
or
know you are going to have to pay someone else a lot to fix it for you

Happy Happy Happy

2002 D2 se7 6 seater . complete engine rebuild with flanged liners , 2 inch lift, terrafirma shocks, LT 275/65r18 Cooper stt tires, d1 modified front bumper, safety devices rack, 30" l.e.d. Light bar
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2001 D2 se5 (parts truck)
2000 D2 se7 (retired)
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 03:22 PM
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I can actually point out a model or two, and they're going 'UP'
in value as we speak........really?? Had a customer just this evening
with 367,xxx on his 1995 daily driver.....zero issues, 100 miles one
way to work every day.....and he's still buying 'goody' add on parts
and running oversized tires, no drive train change.......Really rangie?

You can stick up for your Mom who's been screwing the Mailman
for only so many years. Eventually, you'll realize...something might
be wrong.....

I was warned, did it anyway......97 Disco STD7..

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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-06-2017, 03:29 PM
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as they're well worth fixing.
That is just it. It is the old horse and cart argument.
Because Land Rovers do not hold their value they are often seen as not worth fixing. Yet other vehicles with the same issues are considered worth fixing. This may be because parts and labour are cheaper for the other US made vehicles. But it does not change the fact as to whether they are as reliable as other models.
Yes, England use to have a highly unionised workforce with great protection from being sacked. As a consequence, they often did not have a high work ethic about building the car as designed. Once the unions lost a lot of their power, when Land Rover went broke decades ago, the build quality improved. The actual design has always been good and well ahead of the competition.
The same goes for US cars. Until the unions lost their power when the companies went broke in 2008, the US cars were certainly not up to world quality or design. It has only been since 2008 that you have actually been able to build a fast car that can actually go through a corner or stop properly.

Each new model of car these days are usually a evolution rather than a revolution. As with any brand, when they bring out a completely new model with a significantly different design, they often have issues. The D2 and P38 were revolution models with the new things they tried. So they had a few issues at the beginning. You will find that particular models that were revolutions in any brand car have the worst reputations.
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