Land Rover is ahead of everyone

[Rovin4life]

after looking on Nissan, Toyota, and Jeep sites its quite sad to see a supposed off road company not even attempt to design for off road.

Ask yourself this. How much extra would it cost to get a Toyota land cruiser or a Jeep cherokee to do some serious offroading.

Sure people bitch about the price of Land Rover but to be honest how many companies design all of their vehicles to go off road. Hell they use all of their products in their competions.

If you look at the pictures of the G4 the only thing on the RR are a winch and a set of mud tires.

And many of you think that LR has strayed from its roots. In fact its more into its roots then anyone. Its sets the bar higher and farther then anyone.

How many supposed off road vehicles come with an automatic two inch lift with a simple push of a button. Or how about going to different terrains with nothing simple then a simple twist of a dial and flip of a switch.

Saddest thing of all is the designs that are used to make LR offroading powerhouse is really a simple. There really isnt nothing major in construction of these vehicles. The only real major reconstruction is the tranny and that is for six speed and flawless shifting when driving on the highway

[roverX]

Good points man.

[apbtpetey]

good points x2

I have to say that at 1st I didnt really like the LR3, but it has grown on me. I really like the current line up including the freelander. Actually to be honest the only thing I didnt like about the LR3 was the placement of the spare which can be changed.

Sure there are alot of electronics on the new ones, but hell that is the trend now. I have nothing against all the electronics, infact I think its kind of cool to mess around with those things. The new Rovers are now more on-road friendly, but can still flex their muscle when it counts.

[keptin]

I agree those are good points, but I would still prefer LR to have at least one short wheelbase D90-like vehicle (the freelander doesnt count).

They are meeting a certain niche in the market, a sort of luxury go-anywhere do-anything vehicle. If you guys have seen the latest LR commercial for the RRS; the guy is stuck in traffic and then decides to turn left, runs down a bunch of pedestrian stairs, then runs through some aquaduct and is up on the side of it at an angle, and some other stuff......the commercial ends with something like, "land rover, like no other." ....it was the first LR commercial in a long time that I was actually proud that they tried to emphasize its sport AND off-road ablilities, even though we know its not much....its still something.

[SCSL]

Well, my friends, I'm sorry to say I take the opposite position. Ironically I was just thinking about this earlier this morning.

So LR offers up the LR3, RR, & RRS.

Jeep, while offering up some mall crawlers to the perceived market, still continues to innovate & refine the Wrangler & Wrangler Rubicon. Why? Because they know they must differentiate themselves from the luxury SUV competition.

Toyota offers up a new "FJ", only mildly inspired by the original, but have you seen it? Spray-down interior built to get dirty. It's going to be the next X-Terra and you'll see the aftermarket respond.

Hummer continues the evolution of it's line-up with the H1 Alpha, the H2, and the nimbler H3.

Clearly each of these companies has seen that there is a market among those who want off-road capability (or at least the appearance thereof). Nobody is going to wheel a new Rangie. The LR3, while offering an enormity of technical prowess, does not lend itself easily to modification, or to real trail action (due to bodywork).

So if Jeep can sell Rubi's, can LR sell Defenders? You bet. They can be designed inexpensively enough to still sell in the US. Hell, you know what the market prices if for 10 year old NAS Defenders. But the conservative Ford culture won't take the risk as it can't see the reward. At least Toyota and Hummer have the vision to do something different. Jeep has stuck with the tried & true as they understand the impact of branch loyalty & branch mystique. Rover is losing it.

The latest LR adds in print & TV don't even make mention of the history or off-road roots of the marque.

My rig is still my DD. I drive past folks in stock DIIs and LR3s daily that don't even glance at my rig. I don't mean that as weird ego stuff. Not at all. My point is, there's not connection to the history or the brand. Whereas if you're driving a stock jeep around town and a monster passes you by, you are probably turning your head to check it out.

Just my .02

[Badger1]

Beezel I tend to agree with you on your comments, although I am with Keptin. Hopefully LR will still offer some sort of "working" vehicle in its lineup. I can appreciate SCSL comments about Toyota and Chevy, but come on man.....using Wrangler and the words innovate and refine!? Are we thinking about the same vehicle here? Essentially unchanged since the forties? It's the Miata of the offroad world! Great for a weekend drive and that's it. What can you tow with it? What can you carry in it.... maybe a cooler full of beer, then your out of room! I also use my D1 as a DD, and find it much more user friendly than all the Jeeps my friends drive.

As far as the LR3 not lending itself up for easy modification, or to "real" trail action due to the bodywork.........?

Step outside and take a look at what you have done to your truck to make it "offroadable"!

Don't get me wrong I am NOT tearing you up for the mods you have done, quite the opposite. Who's to say someone won't do that to an LR3 in the future or trim the fenders for larger tires or whatever. How many RR's, or Discos were modded out right after they were bought new? Not many, I am quite positive that the percentage is very, very low! It will take some time for the aftermarket to really respond to the current lineup, but respond they will. Only until then will the true abilities be known of these new trucks!

Just my .03 cents!

[garland823]

Originally Posted by Badger1

Beezel I tend to agree with you on your comments, although I am with Keptin. Hopefully LR will still offer some sort of "working" vehicle in its lineup. I can appreciate SCSL comments about Toyota and Chevy, but come on man.....using Wrangler and the words innovate and refine!? Are we thinking about the same vehicle here? Essentially unchanged since the forties? It's the Miata of the offroad world! Great for a weekend drive and that's it. What can you tow with it? What can you carry in it.... maybe a cooler full of beer, then your out of room! I also use my D1 as a DD, and find it much more user friendly than all the Jeeps my friends drive.

As far as the LR3 not lending itself up for easy modification, or to "real" trail action due to the bodywork.........?

Step outside and take a look at what you have done to your truck to make it "offroadable"!

Don't get me wrong I am NOT tearing you up for the mods you have done, quite the opposite. Who's to say someone won't do that to an LR3 in the future or trim the fenders for larger tires or whatever. How many RR's, or Discos were modded out right after they were bought new? Not many, I am quite positive that the percentage is very, very low! It will take some time for the aftermarket to really respond to the current lineup, but respond they will. Only until then will the true abilities be known of these new trucks!

Just my .03 cents!

The reason nobody modded a D1 when it first came out is who mod's a brand new truck? The reason nobody is modding an LR3 is how the hell do you do it? I'm on the same page as SCSL. 80% of the people that buy new Rovers now don't care about the brand, they care about being seen in something that costs alot of money.

[Badger1]

Originally Posted by garland823

The reason nobody modded a D1 when it first came out is who mod's a brand new truck? The reason nobody is modding an LR3 is how the hell do you do it? I'm on the same page as SCSL. 80% of the people that buy new Rovers now don't care about the brand, they care about being seen in something that costs alot of money.

That was my point, who mods a new truck(although there are some out there). You don't think that when the Disco first came out people thought, how the hell am I going to mod this?! Come on, it does take the aftermarket awhile to engineer/design parts for a vehicle, especially one that is on a brand new platform and as advanced as the new LRs! As far as buying a LR just to be seen in something that costs alot of money? I think that ever since the brand came back to the states in 87 that was the major reason people bought them........to be seen in it! An accessory. It isn't until enthusiasts like ourselves purchase these vehicles used or have one that has been sitting around depreciating enough to warrant some upgrading or taking offroad. Do you think that in 87 when all the celebs in Hollywood were driving around in their brand spanking new Range Rovers would have waved at someone driving around in a 73 Series 3? I highly doubt it! IMO I don't think anything has changed......except the models being offered by Land Rover.

another .01cent!

[roverX]

I agree. Not too many people mod a brand new vehicle. And you can't mod a vehicle if the aftermarket crowd hasn't made anything for it, unless you are a good designer and welder yourself. I think in about 5 years you will be able to get anything for the LR3 - and LR2 - that you can get for the Discos and Rangies we drive today.

[Bene]

im with badger. with the rising popularity of pre runners and and such, especialy in my neck of the woods, we're seeing a lot of after market technology developed for idependantly suspended trucks. its only a matter of time before we see some applications for the late model LRs.

i dont remember of anyone already said this, but how many peopel significantly mod brand new 4x4s of any brand, especially anything on a brand new platform?

[01001010]

Its guys that do this...



that the Brands fail to look at and Aftermarket companies look for. So I say just give it time.

[garland823]

Jeep has stuck to solid axles with the Wrangler, in response to the enthusiasts. Coil suspension and solid axles are much easier to mod. I'm not saying all LR's should be made with solid axles, I'm saying one should.

[Rovin4life]

Actually most companies did away with straight axles in the front.

In fact only the jeep has one.

Everyone else uses it for the on and offroad capibility.

I see many of you guys are stuck on the fact that you have to mod your truck to go off road.

Lets be honest, LR designs for offroad. They don't have to cater to aftermarket companies.

Modding a vehicle is a step back. Not a step forward.

The jeep wrangler is a step back in the wrong direction. Its the company bread and butter. Why bother changing something that makes you money. But its technology and response is outdated. It needs to be modded to compete with LR.

Yet LR design a vehicle so no modding is needed and jump ahead of everyone else. I can tell you many of our customers are diehard fans like yours. They love the brand because of its prowess. They love it because they can go offroad. LR gives freedom to everyone of its customer. Not just certain ones who spent a ton of money for additional add ons that change the vehicle original design and purpose.

[Hank]

I think this guy sumed it up pretty good!

"I think you miss the point Doug. The Land Rover "Legend", so beloved of the marketers (and, oh! your magazine...) was built on the exploits of those past vehicles that we all love so much. The ones that would get the intrepid explorers through any jungle. Would make it to Singapore on only three wheels and a timber splint. Could take on hostile forces in deserts far from home. The ones you could hunt lions from and would then survive a rhino charge before you got back to camp and used the grill for a quick braai ... you know the sort of thing. They were also used by everyone else too. Land Rovers were the tow trucks that rescued you in the winter, the ambulances that got you to hospital through floods, and the staple transport of farmers, forestry workers, builders... and royalty. Those vehicles, even the classic Range Rovers, were virtually classless. Anyone could drive one and therefore anyone had the potential to go anywhere, do anything. They also lasted forever. Hell, the Land Rover I learnt to drive in (a IIa) was bought from a student returning from Iraq, by my father, before I was born. That student had bought it new. It's still on the road.

So what now? Does the marketing still reflect reality? How many students are buying LR3s to go adventuring now? How many students could afford a new Defender for that matter?? Can I start a Freelander with a handle if my battery dies in deepest Borneo..? Yes, Land Rover still makes arguably the best off-road vehicles in the world (out of the box) but the focus has shifted from what I'd regard as truly adventurous and truly useful to 'leisure' and 'status'. Oh yes, and 'Lifestyle'. If that keeps the company afloat and preserves British jobs then I'm ecstatic. But for me the vehicle I'd get excited about would be a simple, effective utility vehicle that had all the go-anywhere, fix-anything, affordable virtues of the old cars but that used ultra-modern, bullet-proof technology to make it even more robust, capable and reliable. Something that would sell in thousands in the still-developing world. Something that people would rely on for their daily bread. Something that would generate inumerable exciting stories of deeds done, people saved, far-off places reached. Something that actually made a difference - that really mattered. A Series 1 for the 21st century.

There's the challenge as I see it. The sad thing for me as an enthusiast is that I'm not sure it's a challenge that Land Rover will take on again."

[roverX]

Originally Posted by Hank

the staple transport of farmers, forestry workers, builders... and royalty.

And don't forget the pope......