The Truth About Motor Oil and Our Rovers

[Disco Mike]

About 2 months ago I started hearing bits and pieces about how our oil, here in the United states has been slowly and very quietly been reduced in it’s ability to lubricate engines like our Rovers and all the older V-8’s.

Turns out that somewhere back in the 40’s there was an additive, ZDDP, put in all engine oils that would help lubricate our cams and lifters since they really don’t have a direct oil flow to keep them well lubricated like all the newer over head cam engines. Then back in 1996 this additive was cut from 800 parts per million to 400 parts per million, which can be verified by the API emblem on each bottle of oil. There has been a recent change again where the oil has been dropped from 400 parts per million, with a SL rating on the bottle, to a new SM rating at 200 parts per million.

From what I have found so far is Castro’s full synthetic still has the SL rating and although made in Germany, it is stamped for resale in the United states only, Quote, “ Not for sale outside the United States”.

In talking with a friend who has spent some time researching this, there are only a couple oils still available in the United States and they are in the $10 to $13 range, Red Line racing oil, Royal Purple racing oil, Harley Davidson motor cycle oil and Mobil 1’s oil for Harley’s as well as Amsoil's 10W/40. These are only still because they are not required to follow the mandated API standards for stock type motor oils.

Turns out there is only one old additive, sold by General Motors called EOS, that actually contains ZDDP.

So for those of use that are always asking what is the best brand or best weight of oil, you now need to look at what is still left in the oil bottles that will maintain our engines, ZDDP. Rover engines are know for internal engine noises and wear on the cam and lifters, I am not saying this is the reason why, but I am saying this may be part of our wear problems.

So the next time you go to your favorite auto parts store check it out, find a bottle of oil that is not marked SM.

Just some food for thought.

Mike

[Rovin4life]

just increase your oil changes from to three thousand and you will be fine.

if rover engines didnt leak from head gaskets and the like then maybe just maybe it would be considerable but with all the leaks if you kept up on the leaks and reseald the engine chances are cam wear would be non sequiter.

most rover engines fail due to lack of maintenance. Not using the right oil with additives.


besides who cares if the rover goes after two hundred thousand miles. Chances are the cats and everything else will nickle and dime you to death before the cams wear out.

Its just internet speculation that fuels debates like these. Mechanics see the real world results of everything. Not the internet.

[Series 3 guy]

Show me a Land Rover "mechanic" at a dealership that actualy tears down an engine? They just order a new Engine as it it easier for the dealership and more profit. The only oil they see would be an oil change.

[Series 3 guy]

Originally Posted by Disco Mike

About 2 months ago I started hearing bits and pieces about how our oil, here in the United states has been slowly and very quietly been reduced in it’s ability to lubricate engines like our Rovers and all the older V-8’s.

Turns out that somewhere back in the 40’s there was an additive, ZDDP, put in all engine oils that would help lubricate our cams and lifters since they really don’t have a direct oil flow to keep them well lubricated like all the newer over head cam engines. Then back in 1996 this additive was cut from 800 parts per million to 400 parts per million, which can be verified by the API emblem on each bottle of oil. There has been a recent change again where the oil has been dropped from 400 parts per million, with a SL rating on the bottle, to a new SM rating at 200 parts per million.

From what I have found so far is Castro’s full synthetic still has the SL rating and although made in Germany, it is stamped for resale in the United states only, Quote, “ Not for sale outside the United States”.

In talking with a friend who has spent some time researching this, there are only a couple oils still available in the United States and they are in the $10 to $13 range, Red Line racing oil, Royal Purple racing oil, Harley Davidson motor cycle oil and Mobil 1’s oil for Harley’s as well as Amsoil's 10W/40. These are only still because they are not required to follow the mandated API standards for stock type motor oils.

Turns out there is only one old additive, sold by General Motors called EOS, that actually contains ZDDP.

So for those of use that are always asking what is the best brand or best weight of oil, you now need to look at what is still left in the oil bottles that will maintain our engines, ZDDP. Rover engines are know for internal engine noises and wear on the cam and lifters, I am not saying this is the reason why, but I am saying this may be part of our wear problems.

So the next time you go to your favorite auto parts store check it out, find a bottle of oil that is not marked SM.

Just some food for thought.

Mike

That is very interesting.Thank you for the advice.I will make sure I pay more attention next time when reading the bottle!! Cheers

[DevilDisco]

Originally Posted by Disco Mike

About 2 months ago I started hearing bits and pieces about how our oil, here in the United states has been slowly and very quietly been reduced in it’s ability to lubricate engines like our Rovers and all the older V-8’s.

Turns out that somewhere back in the 40’s there was an additive, ZDDP, put in all engine oils that would help lubricate our cams and lifters since they really don’t have a direct oil flow to keep them well lubricated like all the newer over head cam engines. Then back in 1996 this additive was cut from 800 parts per million to 400 parts per million, which can be verified by the API emblem on each bottle of oil. There has been a recent change again where the oil has been dropped from 400 parts per million, with a SL rating on the bottle, to a new SM rating at 200 parts per million.

From what I have found so far is Castro’s full synthetic still has the SL rating and although made in Germany, it is stamped for resale in the United states only, Quote, “ Not for sale outside the United States”.

In talking with a friend who has spent some time researching this, there are only a couple oils still available in the United States and they are in the $10 to $13 range, Red Line racing oil, Royal Purple racing oil, Harley Davidson motor cycle oil and Mobil 1’s oil for Harley’s as well as Amsoil's 10W/40. These are only still because they are not required to follow the mandated API standards for stock type motor oils.

Turns out there is only one old additive, sold by General Motors called EOS, that actually contains ZDDP.

So for those of use that are always asking what is the best brand or best weight of oil, you now need to look at what is still left in the oil bottles that will maintain our engines, ZDDP. Rover engines are know for internal engine noises and wear on the cam and lifters, I am not saying this is the reason why, but I am saying this may be part of our wear problems.

So the next time you go to your favorite auto parts store check it out, find a bottle of oil that is not marked SM.

Just some food for thought.

Mike

After spending some time at BITOG. The say the only true synthetic from Castrol is the one made in Germany. It will say it on the bottle, however the this oil only comes in 0W30, and for some reason can only be found at autozone.
They say that this oil is closer to a 40 weight oil, and is sheer stable meaning that most 40 weight oils sheer down to a 30 weight. The Syntec stays a 30 weight oil and does not sheer to a lower weight.
I went checking at Auto Zone and if you look at the different weights for Castrol Synted, they will all say made in the USA except the 0W30. It can be relatively cheap too. I got mine for $4.75 a quart, they were on sale. Usual price for Syntec any weight is like $6 a quart.
I'm not sure what zddp or EOS is but it sounds interesting. I wonder if Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5W/15W40 would fit the bill. I have heard that these area also good oils.

[Disco Mike]

I bought a couple of cases of Castrol's 5W/40 Syntec and over half of the bottle is written in German, and no where does it say made in the US.
Shell's oil is also now a SM rated oil.
You know, I am not sure how much of an impact this has on our engines, but I figure any little bit has to help.
Mike

[Rovin4life]

Originally Posted by Series 3 guy

Show me a Land Rover "mechanic" at a dealership that actualy tears down an engine? They just order a new Engine as it it easier for the dealership and more profit. The only oil they see would be an oil change.

we do it on occasion. only engine we order lock stock and barrel is the V6 rover engine cause parts aren't made for them anymore and its all remans. no new engines whatsoever.

by the way there is more profit in the extra labor of a rebuild of an engine then installing a new one.

[DevilDisco]

Originally Posted by Disco Mike

I bought a couple of cases of Castrol's 5W/40 Syntec and over half of the bottle is written in German, and no where does it say made in the US.
Shell's oil is also now a SM rated oil.
You know, I am not sure how much of an impact this has on our engines, but I figure any little bit has to help.
Mike

I'll check the bottles again. I somehow winded up with a bottle of castrol Syntec 5w50 and what's left of the "German Castrol". The Shell Rotella T does get Rave Review so that will probably be my next move.

I understand that Synthetic has some mild cleaning abilities but my can also dry out seals. Shell Rotella T is supposed to be a highly refined conventional oil so that should keep all the seals nicely conditioned.

No leaks yet except for the transfer case that has one bolt driping 1-2 drops a night.

[Richie_asg1]

Would it not be easier to use an aftermarket additive with moly, rather than the ptfe stuff?

There is a real problem with Biodegradable engine oils in development, in that they haven't found a solution to the EP component that is friendly enough. Plenty of hydraulic oils about, but it's the high pressure stuff that either contains heavy metals or toxic compounds. - stick with what works.

[DevilDisco]

Originally Posted by Richie_asg1

Would it not be easier to use an aftermarket additive with moly, rather than the ptfe stuff?

There is a real problem with Biodegradable engine oils in development, in that they haven't found a solution to the EP component that is friendly enough. Plenty of hydraulic oils about, but it's the high pressure stuff that either contains heavy metals or toxic compounds. - stick with what works.

So what additives have moly and what it is(for those of us that are still learning)?

[Searcaigh]

I am using Castrol Edge 5W-40 Synthetic, as for what it contains probably best checking online (as it is not on the bottle), could start with this website though http://www.castroledge.co.za/

For more stuff on oil read http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

And as for additives http://www.carbibles.com/snakeoil.html

and http://www.carbibles.com/additives.html

[antichrist]

The reduction of Zinc in motor oils was to prevent damage to catalytic converters.
There's a fair bit of info out there on it.
http://www.baileycar.com/oil_additives_html.htm
Here's one on catalyst poisoning
http://www.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesa...er_bunting.pdf
Also found this from Castrol

Castrol is aware of articles in enthusiast magazines and web- sites, as well as after-market parts manufacturer discussions concerning GF-4 engine oils
and cam-shaft durability issues in older performance vehicles. Some consumers suspect the lower level of ZDDP in GF-4 oils may be causing these failures. Castrol is currently investigating this issue.

If you wish not to use a GF-4 oil in your 1970 Cutlass, Castrol does offer the following products that contain Zinc at a level that is higher than the Zinc level found in oils (API SG) marketed during the "muscle car" era of time:
* Castrol GTX 20W-50 (SL,SM)
* Castrol GTX Diesel 15W-40 (CI4,CH4,CG4,CF4,CF,SL)
* Castrol GTX High Mileage 20W-50 (SL,SM)
* Castrol HD 30 (SL,SM)
* Castrol HD 40 (SL,SM)
* Castrol Syntec Blend Truck 15W-40 (CI4,CH4,CG4,CF4,CF,SL)(Semi-
synthetic)
* Castrol Tection Extra 15W-40 (CI4Plus, CI4,CH4,CG4,CF4,SL)
* Castrol Hypuron S 15W-40 (CI4Plus,CH4,CG4,SL)(Semi-synthetic)

If you google this you'll get more information (no quotes)
"zinc site:www.bobistheoilguy.com"

Personally I have more important things to worry about, since I don't consider any of my Land Rover engines to be "performance" engines.

Edited to make the Castrol quote easier to read.

[p76rangie]

I will use the latest oil (SM) anytime. They are getting more advanced all the time and I think that the benefits of the newer oils outweighs something that may or may not be happening in regard to the cams.

[Disco Mike]

The new oils are designed for over head cam engines and not for mid cam engines. Rovers have enough oil flow/pressure problems already, why not protect them?
Mike

[antichrist]

Well, most of the evidence I've seen is that the place the zinc comes in to play is when there is actual metal to metal contact, the thing that oil prevents, or at least is intended to. Where metal to metal contact occurs the most is in high reving engines like in the muscle cars mentioned, and in crotch rockets.