Quick tangent- "Wired" Magazine has run in last month issue inside front cover and now rear cover full page advertisements for the LR3. I find it unusual since they usually don't run anything other than RiceBurner imports and the Ford Hybrid electric advert which runs two pages.
(/:end_of_tangent)
Has anyone taken a good look at doing a electric hybrid with any of the LandRovers? I look inside my Discovery with the 4.0 and see all that space and say to myself "hmmmmmm......."
Wow. Need a real garage and a workshop. Tough luck on the island of Manhattan. Groan...........
With the weight in a discovery, you would have to stop and recharge every couple of miles. Who could be bothered.
Hello from all in Adam in NYC
Your reply is one uninformed of recent advances of battery and technological advances. A simple look at Toyota, Honda and Ford shows two different technologies of successfully applied hybrid electric.
Honda and Ford are using a direct gas-to-electric method. Honda and Toyota is selling their vehicles now, with Ford's Escape SUV coming out soon (albeit Front wheel drive only).
Toyota's execution of the tech uses a intelligent use of using new lightweight batterys to store energy and to supplement power with the gasoline engine generator whenever the operator needed it. They also have recoverative energy braking
As your weight point, you should take a good look at current land and seaborne locomotive technology. On landrail,They run on diesel but the active motors in the locomotive are electric. Most modern seaboard populsion is the same. Every new advance makes electric motors and storage battery technologies lighter and more powerful.
One area still ripe for research and development is retrofit tech of existing on-the-road automotive technology. A vehicle such a modern Land Rover makes an excellent transport vehcile not only for 1st world but those in 3rd world situations.
Last edited by Adam in NYC USA : 12-28-2004 at 07:01 AM.
Yes you are right. My reply was obviously misinformed as I haven't spent the time to research Hybrid/electric cars, as this, at the moment is of no interest to me. Irrespective of the advances made in technology in this field,as you put it, Toyota, Honda & Ford do not weigh as heavy as LR, and besides, who wants to go off-road in a S**tbox?
__________________ No hand signals, driver playing with his transfer Knob.
I guess you could somehow bolt a generator/motor to the PTO
I note the batteries in the "lectrorover" are standard Lead Acid but the Toyota Prius uses NIMH or something and fits under the back seat rather than taking up all that space/weight
It'd sure be a nice way to use a little turbo-diesel, I figure about 25hp would be enough to maintain the batteries at highway speed, probably make a 30mpg truck out of it.
The numbers generated by the EPA are not numbers meant to be reproduced in the real world. They are meant as a abstract yardstick number for comparison with different technologies, different drivers drive styles , different goals set and made by the automotive manufacturers.
In the case of the EPA, they take two different vehicles , put one pint of the exact same petro in their gas tanks, and run them through two scenarios, one town one highway. They usually put these vehicles on a dyno for the best controlled environment, insuring reproducability, within limits.
The hybrids are more efficient, provided the owner also changes his style of driving. If you are going to drive the same way you drive a conventional combustion vehicle, you will be disappointed. You can't use a leadfoot with any vehicle and get 50 mpg.
Nobody, individually nor a group, drive exactly the same route nor the same speed everyday. It is unrealistic.
When was the last time you had to reproduce the measure known as a meter? At one time, it was two marks on a bar of special metal stored in the Naval Observatory at Greenwich, UK. Now, it is the number of oscilllations of specific piece of matter at a specific temperature.
Never, right? Yet we use measures of length without question. It is a agreed upon STANDARD.
These numbers are for abstract comparison only and should be based versus your driving style.
This is what happens when "educated" individuals read a newspaper. The truth is usually penalized as the expense of the function of a newspaper, who first function is, not to give the truth, but to sell newspapers.
If you believe everything published in a daily rag, you deserve everything that happens to you. If newspapers were the bastions of truth that they say they are, why don't they publish their retractions with the same zeal and fontsize they publish their "truths" of the day?
The original reasonale for the source of this thread is of my belief that the Land Rover is one of those target technologies that would benefit the most with a hybrid transplant.
In the next few years, we will see more efficient, smaller and torquier electric motors, lighter energy storage technologies, and more efficient transmissions that would make the Land Rover the envy of any onroad or offroad application.
But it won't come for the private sector of auto manufacturers. It is going to come from us.
Despite what ever angle you want to put on it (I accept that newspapers sensationalise), the article must contain some truth. Forget the EPA tests or whatever, it's the owners of the vehicles that are complaining.
"Drivers upset as hybrids fall short on fuel economy
By James R. Healey, USA TODAY
So many people have complained about disappointing fuel economy of gas-electric hybrid cars that the federal government is telling automakers to consider putting more realistic mileage labels on their cars or do a better job warning buyers that they won't get the advertised mileage."
__________________ No hand signals, driver playing with his transfer Knob.
You would think you were right but USA Today has one lousy attribute- they would rather print a brief article than fill the page with proper sourcing.
Sure, some owners are complaining, but some people are always complaining. Now that the price of gasoline is rising again, I will bet the EPA receiving more and more complaints of the MPG ratings.
The current Bush adminstration has a very soft underside. Their standing orders is that there be no surprises in the press and to do damage control as soon as possible to mininize embarassment.
Not for nothing, the current generation of journalists are not doing the proper background regarding their stories and I would like to see the basis and motivation of their publishing that story.
To get back on track, I am now a avid Land Rover owner, albeit a third-hand owner, and my wish is that in the future my next car would be a Land Rover first, and it be one that use petro or diesel frugally, in line with the times.
On a different point, I just received a Customer Appreciation card from the local Land Rover dealer. They are willing to take a $1000 off the price of a LR3. But with a ticket price of $45,000, it is not going to happen anytime soon.
I will patiently wait until my finances and my income plays catup (or catchup) soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco
Despite what ever angle you want to put on it (I accept that newspapers sensationalise), the article must contain some truth. Forget the EPA tests or whatever, it's the owners of the vehicles that are complaining.
"Drivers upset as hybrids fall short on fuel economy
By James R. Healey, USA TODAY
So many people have complained about disappointing fuel economy of gas-electric hybrid cars that the federal government is telling automakers to consider putting more realistic mileage labels on their cars or do a better job warning buyers that they won't get the advertised mileage."
Irv Miller, Toyota vice president for corporate communication, says the mileage shortfall probably had to do with speed. "The government test that puts the Prius' highway mileage at 51 mpg is based on ideal driving conditions and going 55 mph," he says. I averaged 72 miles an hour on highways.
The company also says the computer is nearly 100% accurate. But how much gas its flexible bladder takes at the pump varies from less than 10 gallons to the full 11.9 gallons. Toyota said I probably began the trip with less gas than I thought. Toyota spokesman Mike Michels says the gas-tank variability is confusing to owners, and the company is working on a fix.
Possibly reflecting frustration with the problem, Prius owners' biggest complaint was "fuel gauge not working" in the J.D. Power and Associates 2004 Initial Quality Study, which measures problems the first 90 days of ownership.
I have a friend who purchased the Prius and is in love with it. He had a Jeep Grand Cherokee before his prius and has no gripes what so ever about his prius. He is getting almost 1000 km to a tank of gas....he's not a race car driver in the middle of the dessert so doesn't need to go 100m/h. He said it was the best investment he's ever made in a car and would buy another one in a heartbeat.
I would personally love to see Landy put out a hybrid of sorts. I love to do my 4x4'ing..i'll also admit that i spend 99% of my landy driving time around the city and would LOVE to see my disco put out less polution and offer me some better gas mileage.
I don't want this to sound like a bitch session...cuz it's not...i love my disco...in my eyes it's the most beautiful vehicle on the road. All i'm stating is that not all of us have the luxury of using our Landy's strictly for 4x4'ing....us lower income folks also use it for everyday use.
I was at the Manhattan Land Rover dealership getting it in the rear when I was checking the floor models. The dealership still has the D2 on the floor along with the Freelanders.
The Freelander would be the best choice for the Hybrid Escape treatment if they desire it so. It is the lightest body and seems it can be done (but the interior touchs of carbon fiber are not my choice).
I hope that Land Rover will never create a Electric Landy!! As far as a freelander becoming a Eletric that sounds ok as im not convinced its actualy even a car.Maybe that appears to be an un enlightened view of things,but I am a petrol head and and will probobly never be convinced that electric would ever be an option for Land Rover. Should stay with cars like honda.
__________________ Missing you Dime.You were taken from us too early my Brother.
82' series III 109 safari prepared 2.25 pet.WILL NEVER GET RID OF!!!!!!
91'Range Rover classic 3.9L V8! I LOVE IT!!
98' Land Rover Discovery with a MOD wolf 300 tdi(sold)
97' Defender 90 300 tdi (sold)
97' Range Rover 4.6L V8(sold)
Awhile you have and are entitled to that opinion, some of us like the Land Rover brand and want it not just to survive but to thrive in a complex automotive market. The Land Rover brand is the most agile brand on and off road use. Why not make it more in tune with the environment it was designed to trek in?
I make mention of the Freelander because it was the most modern of Land Rovers until the LR3 and the Storm came out.
Awhile you have and are entitled to that opinion, some of us like the Land Rover brand and want it not just to survive but to thrive in a complex automotive market. The Land Rover brand is the most agile brand on and off road use. Why not make it more in tune with the environment it was designed to trek in?
I make mention of the Freelander because it was the most modern of Land Rovers until the LR3 and the Storm came out.
Don't want electric? Fine.
Good point actualy about land rover being in tune with the enviroment in treks in.I believe that Land Rover is going in the opposite direction. The new lr3 with the td6 only gets 13 mpg in city. I dont know what they are thinking. I just think Land Rover wouldnt benifit from an elecric version.
__________________ Missing you Dime.You were taken from us too early my Brother.
82' series III 109 safari prepared 2.25 pet.WILL NEVER GET RID OF!!!!!!
91'Range Rover classic 3.9L V8! I LOVE IT!!
98' Land Rover Discovery with a MOD wolf 300 tdi(sold)
97' Defender 90 300 tdi (sold)
97' Range Rover 4.6L V8(sold)
In the most recent Roversnorth newsletter, there's an article about a guy who modified his diesel to run on vegetable oil. He would stop by fast food places & get their used french fry oil (I am not making this up). He got all the way from Berkeley (of course,,,) to last years Rally and 1/2 way back before he had to buy some fuel.
My only concern with an electric or hybrid Rover would be off-road performance. I'm not generally "for" or "against" hybrid/electric vehicles. I figure the market will decide if it makes sense, and award producers accordingly.
However, with the anti-SUV and anti-4-wheeling nuts out there, and Land Rover already moving away from 'specialty' vehicles into more mainstream luxury SUVs (note the lack of even a solid axle Rover available in US) I'm hesitant to see Ford take Rover any farther down this road. Let them experiment with Fords..... I fear Rover is losing it's heritage, it's mystique, and it's soul.
In the most recent Roversnorth newsletter, there's an article about a guy who modified his diesel to run on vegetable oil. He would stop by fast food places & get their used french fry oil (I am not making this up). He got all the way from Berkeley (of course,,,) to last years Rally and 1/2 way back before he had to buy some fuel.
My only concern with an electric or hybrid Rover would be off-road performance. I'm not generally "for" or "against" hybrid/electric vehicles. I figure the market will decide if it makes sense, and award producers accordingly.
However, with the anti-SUV and anti-4-wheeling nuts out there, and Land Rover already moving away from 'specialty' vehicles into more mainstream luxury SUVs (note the lack of even a solid axle Rover available in US) I'm hesitant to see Ford take Rover any farther down this road. Let them experiment with Fords..... I fear Rover is losing it's heritage, it's mystique, and it's soul.
Another good point. I couldnt have said it any better. Thats what i meant to say.I feel that Land Rover is beginning to steer away from it's core audience,the commercial sector.I can't bear the thought of the Defender manufacturing getting sent to spain!!!Great for the Spanish economy but BAD for us.I.E anyone own a mexican volkwagen????Enough said! Electric cars are fine and good,but not for a vehicle who runs the risk of loosing anymore of it's fantastic history and is in jepordy of being "Run out of town". The anti 4x4 brigade in the UK is growing stronger and stronger pretty soon it will be impossible to off road or greenlane anywhere. I think I'm rambling now....sorry. Good point anyway.
__________________ Missing you Dime.You were taken from us too early my Brother.
82' series III 109 safari prepared 2.25 pet.WILL NEVER GET RID OF!!!!!!
91'Range Rover classic 3.9L V8! I LOVE IT!!
98' Land Rover Discovery with a MOD wolf 300 tdi(sold)
97' Defender 90 300 tdi (sold)
97' Range Rover 4.6L V8(sold)
Any body doing electric hybrid in a LandRover?
Regarding your reply..............
& you would think that you're right but....
Most likely the Freelander would get it....
Missing you Dime.You were taken from us too early my Brother.
