Any body doing electric hybrid in a LandRover?

[Alvin]

From the way I understand it, it would take a small 4 cylinder engine, and high capacity batteries in the engine bay, high output electric motor in place of the transmission, some sort of gear reduction unit, and the output of that goes to the transfer case. The electronics (and there are many, at least on the Orion Hybrid Bus) would probably take up the space under the front seats, under the dash, and probably a compartment in the rear loadspace. I would imagine that something like this could theoretically be operated by a laptop, but I'm not sure if it would be reliable. The technology is out there, and little by little it is finding it's way into the vehicles we drive. My supervisor drives an Escape Hybrid and he says it drives about as good as a regular SUV. I will do some research and find out if it is 4x4, and if it is electric drive, or electric/gas drive. BTW, the Orion Hybrid bus is electric drive. The diesel engine is used to charge the batteries.

[Adam in NYC USA]

<a href="http://www.gizmag.com/go/4936/" target="blank" title="BMW unveils the turbosteamer concept"><img src="http://www.gizmag.com/images/links/gizmag_banner_anim.gif" width="468" height="60"></a>

http://www.gizmag.com/go/4936/

BMW makes a recovery steam engine that works with the exhaust. Wow. If only Land Rover or Ford had enough imagination.

As per the article, BMW can drop this in any existing vehicle now in production and you will see instant reduction.

Attaboy.

Adam in NYC

[DiscoPilot]

The Ultimate Driving Machine can't beat German Engineering

[pavel]

Thanks Alvin and Adam - the Orion Bus, of course, is fundamentally different from the current automotive hybrids in that the vehicle is moved only by an electric motor. Toyota, Ford and other manufacturers are stuck on the internal combustion engine as the primary source of motive power. This is a fundamental mistake in my opinion. The beauty of the electric-only-propulsion is that you can use the IC engine less and less as battery technology improves (note that fewer and fewer engineers are even mentioning the fuel cell for automotive application). I was making a list of times we drove one of our vehicles in the last month and was amazed to realize that the journeys were almost all less than 25 miles (40 kms) - many trips were 10 kms. It seems to me that many people would retrofit an older/larger vehicle with battery/electric power for short trips. It should be possible to fit in a small diesel generator unit (Kubota?) that would make range very good....perhaps up to 100 miles?
We have a 30 year old Ford F250 pickup (you could have a Polish wedding in the engine compartment) that would be my first attempt at retro fitting - a Disco I would be a great candidate also but would be far more complicated I'm sure!
As I said earlier in this thread, we need a brave engineering company like Advance Adaptors or Bombardier up here in Canada to start developing a kit. I'll contact Advance... and put the question to them.

[Adam in NYC USA]

Originally Posted by pavel

Thanks Alvin and Adam - the Orion Bus, of course, is fundamentally different from the current automotive hybrids in that the vehicle is moved only by an electric motor. Toyota, Ford and other manufacturers are stuck on the internal combustion engine as the primary source of motive power.

There is no difference. If you take a good look at the current generation of automotive hybrids, they are using electric motors directly driving the tyres to the pavement. There are two different methods to do this, the Prius method and then the more conventional method done by Honda.The combustion motor does not drive anything directly other than a power generator. It turns over whenever there is a needed charge or you need the additional power , like going uphill and passing at the same time.

The automotive industry does not want to reinvent the wheel of what kind of fuel to use, that is. Until there is a true choice between LPG or gas or diesel. There are two styles of fuel cells, one is exothermic in nature which uses a version of LPG. However, until there are a lot of innovators using different materials, the tech will not advance. The current designs use exotic materials and pose great difficulties in mass construction.

This is not new technology. Massive construction equipment, large marine propulsion systems, and heavy rail use hybrid tech. It is just labeled differently.

Adam in NYC

[pavel]

Adam - when you say "The combustion motor does not drive anything directly other than a power generator" you are mistaken. In the case of the Toyota Prius for example, you can run the vehicle exclusively on the IC engine if you choose - that is there is still a direct (conventional) mechanical link between the gas engine and the wheels. The electric motor is an alternate or an adjunct. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Adam in NYC USA]

You are correct and incorrect. A better explanation is available elsewhere.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car14.htm

The Prius can be made to run with the gasoline engine only but only if you desire it or if there was a "limp" mode available. Currently there is no limp mode should something happen with the electric side of the equation. Should you lose the electric motor, for example, you would not be able to start the car. The same electric motor is the starter for the gas engine.

BTW,FYI,The fatal error diagnostic that caused the safe shutdown of several Prius in the field were caused by beta safety software which has been replaced by software updates.

The engine was not designed to run from 0 to 6000 rpm but rather only at a narrow power band of 5000 rpm. When you accelerate up to 40, you are electric from 0-40. After 40, the engine assists until you reach the cruise speed you desire. It then operates as needed.

I am incorrect in thinking it is a true hybrid but rather it is what they call a parallel hybrid with a planetary gear drive. The PGD is basically a Continously Variable Transmission using a planetary gear drive.

I am always thinking for hybrid as true hybrid such as fuel engine to generator to electric motor, which is how the technology first started.

I stand corrected. The Prius is a automotive compromise between the automotive world and the true hybrid world of heavy industry and construction, using unique and rather innovative technologies.

These technologies however, don't look like they would work in a Land Rover environment unless it is a road-only hardware-software platform.

I have a mental picture in my head of that planetary drive going into a rock on a trail and the resultant damage imagined is considerable.

[Alvin]

Just an FYI, the Orion buses have crappy mileage when the IC engine dies. I ran out of Diesel fuel the other day and I was able to make it all of about 2 blocks on battery power.

[pavel]

Alvin, your Orion bus may not be the best in electric/battery mode but consider the typical person in a conventional 'car'. As in most big cities, it has become virtually impossible to drive across my little city on Canada's west coast during lunch time and rush 'hours'. I don't drive at those times because of the huge amount of idling - in fact, many people are turning their engines off and on multiple times to save fuel. I just paid $75 Cdn to fill our 96 Disco (we drive it the absolute minimum now). We simply must get hybrids onto the roads asap. Apparently, Ford has got itself into a pickle over its leased electric Ranger pickups in california. People love them but Ford is insisting on recovering & destroying them (Toyota has taken the high ground with its electric Rav4s).

I am convinced that we are caught up in an IC engine addiction at the moment which will be difficult but possible to break. I will get excited when an auto manufacturer releases an electric vehicle with or without a diesel generator on board. For most people I know range is not an issue at all - 80 km range is fine). Ford/Volvo/LR/Mazda are obvious candidates to release a real hybrid - now often refered to as a 'plug in hybrid', along with Toyota or Honda.

[moses]

Having driven a Prius, I'd say it was a little odd and took some getting used to, especially when it switches off at junctions. But that wouldn't put me off owning one.

Personally I'd love an electric Landy. One of the things I feel most guilty about is the poor fuel economy and high level of pollutants that my 2.25 engine puts out. I don't feel guilty enough to stop driving it, but if I could easily convert it I probably would.

Also the electric motors would give you plenty of low speed, high torque, controllable power which would make it ideal for off roading.

Cheers,

Neil.


Oh and one of the key points to getting the most out the regenerative braking, is you have to use the brakes! As a long distance commuter it's never going to work, but in town with a lot of stop start driving is where it really comes into it's element.