no e-lockers for Rover yet, but their wires could get "hooked" the same as an ARBs airline.
LR3's have a e locker. Also if your doing the toyota conversion you have a elocker option there as well
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"Only two defining forces ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American G.I. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom."
ARB is a full locker, detroits and trutac are kinda half lockers
TrueTrac's are not lockers, they are limited slip diffs.
Detroit lockers are full lockers, not half lockers (whatever that is). You just can't totally control when they lock like with a manually engaged locker.
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Tom Rowe
Atlanta, GA
Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck
in places even more inaccessible.
62 88 reg
67 NADA x2
74 Air Portable - The Antichrist (tag 6A666)
95 D1
95 D90
TrueTrac's are not lockers, they are limited slip diffs.
Detroit lockers are full lockers, not half lockers (whatever that is). You just can't totally control when they lock like with a manually engaged locker.
what i meant by half locker, is that T.T is like you said a limited slip. and detroit unlocks and locks on its on. where ARB when you lock it. it is 100% locked no matter what, that is all i meant..
and Eaton makes Detroit and T.T disco mike.
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2003. Discovery SE
the names Pete
Bottom line, whatever works for you is the important thing, we all have different driving habits and types of trails, so buy what works for you not work may work for me.
Mike
In case somebody is confused reading this thread. Eaton is the parent company who makes the brand, Detroit. Detroit has many products, two of which are the Detroit Locker and the Detroit Tru Trac. The Locker is fully locked until the amount of torque developed across the two half shafts is great enough to cause it to slip. This is good becasue you will spare your drivetrain parts of breaking. It also tends to disengage in high grip environments where both wheels are firmly planted on a grippy surface and the wheels experience different wheel speeds. ie while cornering hard on dry pavement or concrete.
Both the Locker and the Tru Trac have no air lines and are completely automatic. This is good becuaue they are always working and have no air lines which can rip off on the trail and render your truck less capable.
Full ARB air lockers or the E-Lockers are truly bad ass. When they are locked, they are locked, period. mis-using one of these types of lockers (like having no grip on a wheel and then suddenly getting grip all at once) is often fatal to drivetrain components. When used properly, there is almost nothing better!
I chose the Tru Trac front and rear. Cheap, easy to install, and I wasn't building a purpose built rock crawler. With them installed, my truck is worlds better off than the other rigs that have to "bump" their way over obstacles. Grip = fun!!!
The Detroit Tru Trac is very different than a Locker. Here is a clip of an article that I found which simply explains how it works.
"""""
The gear types use gear friction/interference alone to achieve the same effect. The gears in a gear type limited slip look completely different from a clutch type. They have a bunch of smaller helical gears instead of the four or six bevel type gears found in open diffs or clutch type limited slips. The friction comes from the meshing of the many small gears inside the unit as well as the axial thrust of those gears into pockets in the housing. More torque wedges the gears even tighter into their pockets and creates more friction.
How much limited slip action a particular diff will generate is built in. That effect can be measured and is expressed as the bias ratio. Bias ratio describes how much torque the limited slip can shuttle from the lower grip to the higher grip tire. The rear Truetrac used for our TJ has a bias ratio of around 3.5:1. That means for every 100 pounds-feet of grip the low traction tire can support, the Truetrac can deliver up to 350 lbs./ft. to the high traction tire. That low traction side figure will include the built-in braking force of the limited slip as well as whatever grip the tire can deliver (there's always a little grip, unless the tire is in the air). That 3.5:1 ratio remains constant.
Trutrac bias ratios run from about 2:1 to up to about 5:1, depending on application. Like all gear type units, the Trutrac is well known for being smooth and predictable on the street because of the smooth actions of its gears verses the more grabby action of clutch type units. A clutch type limited slip is somewhat variable according to the amount of engine torque that's being fed into it... meaning it can have a lower or higher bias ratio according to throttle position. Trutracs are less responsive in that way and more linear in their performance. This is why many road racers use gear type LS units because the cars are more predictable powering out of a turn.
On the trail, the Trutrac responds very well to brake pedal modulation by the driver, especially in cases where there is a wide variation in traction side to side, such as a lifted tire. A little brake pedal application (or partial application of parking brake for rear units) will augment torque transfer by applying a little extra braking action on the slipping tire. This is the key to finessing a Truetrac for maximum performance.
A Trutrac would be a good choice for people who want seamless, automatic operation. It would be a fine overall choice for terrain where traction is relatively even side to side. It would be less advantageous for a hardcore rockcrawler that frequently experiences lifted tires and lots of weight transfer. With a driver who is clued in to brake pedal modulation however, the trail capability of a Truetrac equipped Rockcrawler could be well into the extreme category. You might want to read the older Hummer and military HUMVEE driving manuals, because those rigs use similar type differentials.
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'99 Disco II
ACE / 2" OME lift
245 75 R16 Greatyear MT/R's
How well does the True trac work with the a Discovery ll traction Control?
My Montero has a Air locker in the rear, which works good in certin situations. Snow is not one of them, or slick side hilling.
Some times Lockers help you go in a straight line and sometime they through you off. I like the idea of the True trac. sounds like it fits my wheeling needs.
How well does the True trac work with the a Discovery ll traction Control?
My Montero has a Air locker in the rear, which works good in certin situations. Snow is not one of them, or slick side hilling.
Some times Lockers help you go in a straight line and sometime they through you off. I like the idea of the True trac. sounds like it fits my wheeling needs.
Having a TT in a DII, makes you believe the unit was specifically designed for use with TC. As the above article states, learning proper use of brake modulation will allow full use of its capabilities. But overall, the TC makes up for some of the TT's shortcomings; and the TT makes up for the TC's shortcomings. Truthfully a perfect match.
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"In certain places, at certain hours, gazing at the sea is dangerous. It is what looking at a woman sometimes is." - Victor Hugo
That's BS. Bill Davis at Great Basin Rovers, in SLC, keeps them in stock. Got mine 3 days after I ordered it. And that turnaround included him mounting it in a third member for me, shimming it, and setting it up. I just swapped out thirds, sent him mine back as a core. Simple, sweet, cheap. Works perfect.
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"In certain places, at certain hours, gazing at the sea is dangerous. It is what looking at a woman sometimes is." - Victor Hugo
That's BS. Bill Davis at Great Basin Rovers, in SLC, keeps them in stock. Got mine 3 days after I ordered it. And that turnaround included him mounting it in a third member for me, shimming it, and setting it up. I just swapped out thirds, sent him mine back as a core. Simple, sweet, cheap. Works perfect.
There's the link to the page with all relevant info. Don't ever trust their website. It's a damned joke. They should never had even made a webpage, considering it hasn't been updated, refreshed, or even maintained in years. But then again, if he spent the time or money to work on the website, we wouldn't be able to get all of the great advise from him when we need it, or the good prices. So it's definitely a trade off.
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"In certain places, at certain hours, gazing at the sea is dangerous. It is what looking at a woman sometimes is." - Victor Hugo
How are you guys ripping off the air lines on the arb units? I have not seen any issue with this if the installer routes the line correctly. If the air lines are coming off in the bush what is happening to all the other stuff hanging down from the frame? brake lines, axle breather hose, wires etc.
Also in the assessment of value/price point, a person should consider the ball ache of fitting any kind of traction aid to the differential.
Cheap and cheerful may work for some but I would rather save my money and fit the best unit for my needs and only do it once.
Anyway that's my 2c.
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"Your only supposed to blow the BLOODY DOORS OFF" The Italian job 1969.
I was never going to reply to this thread because the "locker debate" is a never ending flame thread waiting to happen. But, P76, you're so off base its funny as hell.
P76, listen and learn. WHEN THERE IS POWER TO THE PINION, A DETROIT LOCKER IS LOCKED. It's pretty simple, actually. "Bumps in the road" do not unlock the Detroit. The Detroit does not "lock and unlock causing shock as you drive down the road". That is about the most retarded crap I've ever heard.
Your "shock overload" claim is common. That what you get when you run stock axles with a Detroit. "Shock Overload" is not caused from daily driving. It happens when you loose an axle under power. As the axle recoils from the breakage, it causes shock overload. Normal ratcheting from a Detroit is not going to break your axles.
The whole "ripped airline" theory is about bogus, too. Sure, it could happen. You could rip a hole in your oil pan, too. Does that mean you need a 1/4" thick steel oil pan? Ripped air-lines are not very common. Poor installs ARE very common.
I'd be 100% more worried about blowing out an O-ring than ripping the air lines on the ARB locker.
TT's are fine, but far from great. I ran a TT for years, and can honestly say that I'll never run one again. As I've said many times before, the TT is 100% better than stock, but it's no ARB. The TT never really fully locks, but for a majority of the people, that's ok. But I still think the only reason people buy the TT is because they cannot afford the ARB. You never hear someone say "Damn, I really with I had the TT instead of this ARB"....
Don't think for a minute that you should not upgrade your axles if you plain to run the TT. The TT is hard on stock axles/CV's. I broke no less than 6 CV/axles with the TT in the front. 4 of the CV's I broke were the treated 2522's.
The biggest myth about the Detroit and TT is the statement jupiter made; bad driving habits. You will never ever know the Detroit in in the back of a Rover. Period. You will, however, know there is a TT in the front. But this is a good thing. The TT really improves the handling of the Rover - it stiffens everything up. Only draw-back is, with a TT installed, the truck will want to follow the hump in the road. Meaning, depending on the road, your truck may pull slightly left for a while, and then slightly right for a while. It's no big deal at all, but it is a side effect of the TT.
I've ran the DT/Stock, DT/TT, DT/ARB, and now ARB/ARB. The ARB/ARB is nice if you play a lot in the rocks - it helps the turning aspect of things. But I think the best overall combo was the DT/ARB.
The TT can be had everywhere. Here is one for $362.00. I think you'll be hard-pressed to beat that price. Install and set-up is easy if you have the tools. Hell, I did one wearing a white shirt at a dinner party once in 20-minutes. Easy.
The KAM diff is sexy, though. But talk about $$$! It's by far the best option, but for a lot of people, it's just overkill. The current carriers on the market are stronger than the current HD axles. No sense in going to a much stronger diff 'just because', IMO. If this was a comp truck, sure. For a hobby truck, don't waste the $.
EDIT:
Just saw that the link I posted was for the 10-spline. Still, I can't imagine that the 24-spline is too much more money.
ARBs are worth the money. Coin up and get SS braided lines and you wont have to worry about them either. Ive wheeled with both but I prefer the ARBs as the axles are only taking punishment when you need it, not all the time. Ive seen a TT break GBR front axles before. Id imagine they are the harder on axles than the Detriot. My ARBs are 10 spline and I pulled and axle I had scribbed 2 yrs ago and no twist whatsoever. I figure someday I will change the side gears out and upgrade to 24 but if it aint broke dont fix it. Nothing wrong with a TruTrac/Detriot set up but pony up for the rear axles as a minimum as if you grenade an axle theres a good chance the detriot will go bang too! Just my 2 cents.
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Gordo www.floridalandroverclub.com
94 D1 mall crawler
92 stocker RRC
73 hybrid wheeler
Thats not me airborne but I love the photo!
P76, listen and learn. WHEN THERE IS POWER TO THE PINION, A DETROIT LOCKER IS LOCKED. It's pretty simple, actually. "Bumps in the road" do not unlock the Detroit. The Detroit does not "lock and unlock causing shock as you drive down the road". That is about the most retarded crap I've ever heard.
Is this the old Hank back after all this time.
If you ever went tp driving school, you should know that you should always drive through a corner. That is, don't brake while going throu
