This Locker or that Locker

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by DaveC

This is just my understanding so correct me if I'm wrong. I don't have a detroit but have been learning about traction diffs.

The detroit behaves a lot differently in an AWD vehicle because both the front and rear axles are driving the truck. This halves the torque load going to the detroit making un-locking and locking less stressful compared to a part time/ rear wheel drive truck. The RWD truck goes from 50% on each rear shaft to 100% on one shaft when unlocking/ turning. I think this is the same reason that the detroit unlocks easier on an AWD truck; there is less power to the rear pinion because the front axle is receiving 50% of the torque (with CDL open). Torque or stress on the detroit will cause it to stay locked or re-lock, even on a smooth high traction surface while turning, but this is much more likely to happen in a rear wheel drive vehicle where the rear axle is seeing all of the torque. When the CDL is locked, torque can spike at the rear pinion if the front axle loses traction placing all the torque on the rear axle and keeping the detroit locked.

Is that basically how it works?
Dave

Your right about less stress to each axle in normal situations. But if you are say climbing a hill, a greater proportion of the stress to move the vehicle is going to the rear wheels (centre diff locked). If the centre diff is unlocked, the front wheels will spin easier and you will lose momentum.

With the risk of starting some of the debate again, the stress on the pinion has nothing to do with keeping the detroit locked. All that has to happen is for one wheel to be turned quicker (by its contact with the ground) and that wheel will unlock. Think of the drive side of the locker as a "C" shape and the axle side being a "T" shape laying on its side. The top of the "T" is small enough to fit through the mounth of the "C". When there is power to the pinion, and the wheels are turning at the same rate, the "T" locks into one end of the "C" to stop it forcing itself out. But as soon as that axle starts to move faster than the drive, the "T" will move back into the mouth of the "C" and unlock. So power to the pinion helps lock the axles in place to stop them being forced to disconnect under load, but does not prevent them unlocking when a wheel is forced to travel faster by turning or uneven terrain.

[1hank1]

Anyone ever met someone who was "book smart", but in real common sense shit you deal with every day they were dumb as a fucking rock?

[sideview]

Sorry, I got as far as CVC's avatar. What are we talking about again?

[apbtpetey]

Originally Posted by sideview

Sorry, I got as far as CVC's avatar. What are we talking about again?

Yeah I seem to stop when I am at one of his posts for some reason

[DaveC]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

Your right about less stress to each axle in normal situations. But if you are say climbing a hill, a greater proportion of the stress to move the vehicle is going to the rear wheels (centre diff locked). If the centre diff is unlocked, the front wheels will spin easier and you will lose momentum.

With the risk of starting some of the debate again, the stress on the pinion has nothing to do with keeping the detroit locked. All that has to happen is for one wheel to be turned quicker (by its contact with the ground) and that wheel will unlock. Think of the drive side of the locker as a "C" shape and the axle side being a "T" shape laying on its side. The top of the "T" is small enough to fit through the mounth of the "C". When there is power to the pinion, and the wheels are turning at the same rate, the "T" locks into one end of the "C" to stop it forcing itself out. But as soon as that axle starts to move faster than the drive, the "T" will move back into the mouth of the "C" and unlock. So power to the pinion helps lock the axles in place to stop them being forced to disconnect under load, but does not prevent them unlocking when a wheel is forced to travel faster by turning or uneven terrain.

Ian, I think if the force locking the axles in place (detroit is locked) overcomes the force/traction on the wheel traveling faster by turning, the detroit will stay locked. This should happen more easily on a rear wheel drive truck sending all the power to the rear. I think the stress on the pinion will determine whether that outside wheel will "free-wheel" or not. Even pavement has a traction limit.


Dave

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by DaveC

Ian, I think if the force locking the axles in place (detroit is locked) overcomes the force/traction on the wheel traveling faster by turning, the detroit will stay locked. This should happen more easily on a rear wheel drive truck sending all the power to the rear. I think the stress on the pinion will determine whether that outside wheel will "free-wheel" or not. Even pavement has a traction limit.
Dave

I could explain in detail about how all the parts in the DT work together and have the effect described. But it is a little difficult over the internet without a full set of diagrams.

So I will just refer you back to the operators manual.

You will not find anywhere in there that states it stays locked. This is just people talking without the engineering knowledge to know better. You will note that none of the people claiming it stays locked can explain how it does it.

But in the manual you will note that EVERY test to ensure that a wheel will unlock is done under load. People with DTs on this forum have also stated that their tyres do not skip or "bark" when going through a corner on a main road. If the locker stayed lock when under drive (power) you would here a tyre skipping all the time.

The clowns that argue it does stay locked during a turn, with nothing to back their theories up, cannot seem to tell you how much power is needed to lock it up.

I am not sure what more I can do to convince you, so I will leave it at that.

[CaptainRuss]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

Hank states that he is right because his tacho took longer to cook than what he states was on the packet.

Your only proof that I am wrong is that the person that relies on the cooking time of a tacho is right, so I must be wrong.

What's a tacho?

The only thing that makes sense are the last 4 words of the above statement.

Is this you by the way?-

[p76rangie]

I managed to find some photos that will give me a chance of explaining how a DT works. So for those that really want to know, I will give it an attempt. I will try and keep it simple for the intellectually challenged.


The first photo is an exploded view of a DT. I will give the parts some names so you can follow what I am talking about. These are not the technical names for the parts.

The first is the main disc in the middle. We will call this the Drive Plate. It fits into the main casing that you can see either side of the diagram. The crown wheel bolts to the casing and the drive plate turns with the casing. So in effect the crown wheel turns this plate.

The discs either side of the drive plate we will call the Drive Clutches, They connect via teeth to the drive plate to provide drive to the axles.

The smaller diameter tubes next to the two halves of the casing we will call the drive flanges. The axles fit inside these and the outer connects to the Drive Clutches to provide the power to the axles. I will not mention these again as any drive to the clutches is also applied to them.

Next you have the large springs. Their job is to force the clutches onto the drive plate.

The next photo shows the internals of an assembled DT.


Please note the bevel shape of the teeth. This where people are becoming confused as to the axles being locked and the diff being locked.

The only thing forcing the drive clutches to the drive plate is the pressure of the springs. You can see these in the photo. This pressure is not enough to keep them there when drive is applied. That is, the power from the drive train would force the clutches away from the plate if they were not beveled. So when the teeth on the clutches are are at either end of the teeth on the drive plate, they are “locked” to the drive plate. But they are locked there whether you are turning over the diff by hand or whether you have the throttle flat to the floor. It does not change with the amount of power provided.

You can now note that the gap between the teeth on the drive plate is larger than the size of the teeth on the clutches. So when a wheel starts to turn at a faster rate than the drive being applied, the drive clutch can move forward within the drive plate.

But you will also note that it can’t go far, so how does it unlock. We now come to the photo of the broken DT components, posted previously.

I am not interested in the breakages or the larger drive teeth. The part on the left is the drive clutch and the piece of the right is the drive plate. Now look towards the centre of these parts, you will see smaller teeth. You will note that these are shaped to allow something can slide over the top of them. Now look where the teeth are line up. The ones on the clutch are lined up with the teeth, the ones on the plate are just before the teeth. So as the clutch is turned forward by the wheel that is turning quicker through the turn, the small teeth on the clutch ride up on the ones on the plate and forces the main teeth to disengage. These teeth passing over each other is the clicking noise that you here in the diff. So as the faster wheel moves forward, the drive clutch just rides over each of the drive teeth. The spring forces the teeth to mesh again when the wheel stops turning faster.

Here is a photo of a DT with one side disengaged.

So I hope this helps explain how they work and how the axles being being locked to the drive plate does not mean that the diff is locked.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by CaptainRuss

What's a tacho?

The only thing that makes sense are the last 4 words of the above statement.

Is this you by the way?-
Attachment 17831

Alright smarty, I am just use to dealing with car parts, so drop the "h". That is, taco

[CaptainRuss]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

Alright smarty, I am just use to dealing with car parts, so drop the "h". That is, taco

Ah, the Australian way of spelling it.









(p.s. it is "used to", not "use to". Too many car parts must have fallen on your head. - Sincerely, your friend Smarty)

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by CaptainRuss

Ah, the Australian way of spelling it.









(p.s. it is "used to", not "use to". Too many car parts must have fallen on your head. - Sincerely, your friend Smarty)

Come on, knock what I put up about a DT working. If you have read it, your knowledge of a DT just increased by at least 1000%. But I don't expect you have the intelligence to. You will just come back with something like "Your Wrong", just like Hank does.

I have put my knowledge out there to be criticised, so if you know anything, start picking holes in it, rather than this sidetracking that you are Hank are experts at. Come to think of it, that is the only thing you are experts at.

Hank has attempted to prove me wrong with photos and all other crap on everything except the operation of the DT. I wonder why he has not put up anything about what I have said on the DT's operation. Surely he has photos of a DT. He stated that he had one, He has stated that he knows how it works, So he must have looked in side. He has recorded everything else he has done in his life, so why doesn't he have photos of the inside of a DT. The reason he hasn't is either that he does not know enough to prove me wrong, or I am right!. Either way he has proved himself, along with you, to be morons.

[1hank1]

Ian,
You can decribe the Detroit locker all day long. You can also qoute the user information as you see fit. In the end, the Detroit will lock under power. If you would have ever driven a truck with a DT locker, you would understand what a fuck-up you are.

Plain and simple

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Ian,
You can decribe the Detroit locker all day long. You can also qoute the user information as you see fit. In the end, the Detroit will lock under power. If you would have ever driven a truck with a DT locker, you would understand what a fuck-up you are.

Plain and simple

Didn't think you knew anything about how a DT worked. At least you have now shown it to everyone.

If you knew anything, and it worked differently to what I have stated, you would not have missed the opportunity to have a go at me!

And you will not find the explanation I just posted on the internet. It is from actually dealing with the things and trying to find out why they were twisting axles.

You don't even know how a normal diff works, so why would you know anything about lockers.

So who is the moron now!!!

[p76rangie]

Come on Hank, If you know as much as you keep on telling people, you shouldn't have to go and try and look it up.

Tell people NOW what I got wrong. Tell us how a DT works.








I am waiting!

[1hank1]

You've answered your own question, Ian.

The warning in the manual is saying that by the drive to one wheel disengaging, it will put all the drive through the other wheel. This extra stress on that wheel may cause it to lose traction. If this occurs the other wheel will re-engage.

Now, why one earth would the inside wheel loose traction?

Lets do this one question at a time.

Why would the inside wheel loose traction?