This Locker or that Locker

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

You have never actually wheeled, have you, Ian. Admit it..

I am pretty sure I admitted to this in one of your previous posts. But just in case, yes you have caught me out.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Here is a good pic, again, of a place where lockers are required to make the climb, yet both rear tires are getting excelent traction:..

Is this just another excuse to post another photo. How is this relevant to upgrading axles.
By the way, did he have an ARB or DT fitted.?

Originally Posted by 1hank1

I'm confused. Maybe a pictue will help.

Are you that desperate to see a phot of a console?
When I get home tonight I might make the effort and take it for you, if you are a good boy.

[1hank1]

I am pretty sure I admitted to this in one of your previous posts. But just in case, yes you have caught me out.

So, you admit you have no fucking clue as to what you're talking about...

Is this just another excuse to post another photo. How is this relevant to upgrading axles.

This it relevent to needing to lock a diff where there is enough traction on BOTH rear wheels.

By the way, did he have an ARB or DT fitted.?

He? Who is "he"? That's me you poser.

And yes, my ARB was locked

Are you that desperate to see a phot of a console?
When I get home tonight I might make the effort and take it for you, if you are a good boy.

Yes.

But in the mean time, tell me
1) Who's DT is this?
2) How did it break?
3) Where did it break (location of wheeling area.)

[sideview]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Show me a locker that broke just because!!! I know full well you cannot. You may say you can, but you better be able to back that shit up, because if you can't, you'll only be left looking like a dumbass yet again.

Originally Posted by p76rangie

In regard to who it is, or where it broke. You would not know the person or the area where it broke. How did it break, from shock loading when the axle disengaged and engaged.

Is that so?

Taken from Locker Debate That pic sure looks familiar. Where did he break it? Oh wow, climbing a waterfall? How'd it break?....

January 1, 2003

I thought some of you might enjoy this photo....you probably haven't seen too many of them (I know I have not). I was wheelin' in Johnson Valley during Thanksgiving, 2002, with some good friends from California. While climbing a waterfall, my buddy snapped an axle shaft on his TJ's Ford 9" rear axle. The resultant release of energy, when the shaft let go, took out the ring and pinion gears and the Detroit Locker. The only notable component that survived was the other axle shaft. Here is a picture of the Detroit. OUCH!

[1hank1]

LMAO! Pwned!!!

P76, you're a dip shit.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by sideview

Is that so?

Taken from Locker Debate That pic sure looks familiar. Where did he break it? Oh wow, climbing a waterfall? How'd it break?....

As I said, it doesn't matter how it broke, it broke. and it broke exactly how I explained it. Do a search on DTs breaking, you will find a good number. Then do a search on an ARB breaking.
The photo was only ever used as it shows the weak points of a detroit.
You will also note that when it broke it took out his whole diff. The worse that Hank came come up with an ARB locker is not being able to activate it due to an air supply problem.

Now Hank, what oil do you use for an ARB locker to protect the "O" ring? You can't even answer this simple question and you claim to be an expert. The answer is even in the instructions that come with the locker.

And I address this response to you Hank as you have been known to use Sideviews logon.

[sideview]

Liar liar pants on fire Ian

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

As I said, it doesn't matter how it broke, it broke. and it broke exactly how I explained it. Do a search on DTs breaking, you will find a good number. Then do a search on an ARB breaking.
The photo was only ever used as it shows the weak points of a detroit.
You will also note that when it broke it took out his whole diff. The worse that Hank came come up with an ARB locker is not being able to activate it due to an air supply problem.

Now Hank, what oil do you use for an ARB locker to protect the "O" ring? You can't even answer this simple question and you claim to be an expert. The answer is even in the instructions that come with the locker.

And I address this response to you Hank as you have been known to use Sideviews logon.

First, moron, I've never ever used Tami's log on. I have no idea what her password is and I've never types the first key on her PC.

Second, I use Valvoline 90w in my diff. Pretty standard.

Third, THE DIFF BROKE BECAUSE HE SNAPPED AN AXLE. The diff did not 'just break' as I called way back on page 4.

Funny how you attempted to allude that this was your pics and someone you knew......

Furthermore, that is not a common break. "Shock Overload" typically breaks the springs, not the clutch packs. But, you knew that, right?

Show me more picture of broken Detroit lockers. Come on, you said they are "everywhere". I want to see more. I also want to hear how they broke.

Hank came come up with an ARB locker is not being able to activate it due to an air supply problem.

Again, you choose to read what you want. Go back and re-read, Ian. I listed several potential breakages that will leave you sitting with an ARB.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by sideview

Liar liar pants on fire Ian

You can find the comments anywhere. Seeing you like jeeps, try this one:
"JeepReviews.com
Terrible!!! won't put one in my lawn tractor.
On-road it was almost dangerous, when it would locked up it would jerk the jeep sideways and bang, thought that the axle was coming through the floor. Off-road it worked slightly better until I had to back up and take a second run at an obsticle. It unlocked and then locked up suddenly under power. Blew the axle shaft and destroyed itself to a point it took 4 hours to get the center pin out and removed from the housing. Upgrade to ARB air lockers love them"
Same situation as what I posted. Do you really want me to line or the breakages up in a line for you.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Second, I use Valvoline 90w in my diff. Pretty standard.

Maybe that is why you have problems with the "O" ring. Next time RTFM.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Show me more picture of broken Detroit lockers. Come on, you said they are "everywhere". I want to see more. I also want to hear how they broke.

Show me a picture of a broken ARB locker. I am already one ahead.

As I stated, plenty of comments about DT failures, just not many photos.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Again, you choose to read what you want. Go back and re-read, Ian. I listed several potential breakages that will leave you sitting with an ARB.

You will have to remind me!
You have only listed problems with the air supply, that is, fuses, solenoids, air lines, switches, "O" rings. Tell what else you reckon will break. Also tell me how the lack of air supply will leave me any worse off than a stock car. You just keep on avoiding these questions. Go on, post another irrelevant photo.

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

You can find the comments anywhere. Seeing you like jeeps, try this one:
"JeepReviews.com
Terrible!!! won't put one in my lawn tractor.
On-road it was almost dangerous, when it would locked up it would jerk the jeep sideways and bang, thought that the axle was coming through the floor. Off-road it worked slightly better until I had to back up and take a second run at an obsticle. It unlocked and then locked up suddenly under power. Blew the axle shaft and destroyed itself to a point it took 4 hours to get the center pin out and removed from the housing. Upgrade to ARB air lockers love them"
Same situation as what I posted. Do you really want me to line or the breakages up in a line for you.

Oh man, this is just awesome!

On-road it was almost dangerous, when it would locked up it would jerk the jeep sideways and bang, thought that the axle was coming through the floor.

Check one of my very first post in this thread. Actually, I think it was directed to you, Ian. This only backs up what I stated eariler!

then locked up suddenly under power.

Oh shit! Are you serious??? Is this not was I said to you and JimFool back on page 2?? Remember, WHEN THERE IS POWER TO THE PINION, THE DT IS LOCKED. Period.

Blew the axle shaft and destroyed itself to a point it took 4 hours to get the center pin out and removed from the housing.

Hahaha. Let's hear more, Ian! was this a Dana35 with stock shafts? I bet it was.....

But come on, Ian. Post the other reviews directly under that review Detroit Locker Reviews

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Oh shit! Are you serious???

What point did you not understand in the post. It was the Detroit locking and unlocking that shock loaded everything and caused the breakages. As I have been stating all along.

Well some more, they are easy to find.
“Detroit's do break. I've seen a number of people break one.”

“You can't just say that someone WILL take out a Detroit when they break an axle shaft. Yes, shock loads tend to be the cause for Detroit locker breaks.”

“I've seen a few Detroits bite the bullet. I'm not just speaking internet. I've personally seen it and have to buy new Detroit.”

Now post the ARB breakages. Where now at 5 to zero. Surely you can find one breaking somewhere in the world.

[1hank1]

What point did you not understand in the post. It was the Detroit locking and unlocking that shock loaded everything and caused the breakages. As I have been stating all along.

Was this a 5-speed Jeep? Was he working the clutch while backing up and turning? Do you know these answers? Since you read this crap on the internet, is it considered Church?

Well some more, they are easy to find.
“Detroit's do break. I've seen a number of people break one.”

“You can't just say that someone WILL take out a Detroit when they break an axle shaft. Yes, shock loads tend to be the cause for Detroit locker breaks.”

“I've seen a few Detroits bite the bullet. I'm not just speaking internet. I've personally seen it and have to buy new Detroit.”

No one is contesting this, Ian. I've even told you straight up that I broke a DT. But the reason a DT breaks is because you break an axle. What is that so hard for you to understand???

Now post the ARB breakages. Where now at 5 to zero. Surely you can find one breaking somewhere in the world.

".... PROBLEMS WITH ARB COULD BE BAD O-RINGS . I HAVE HAD 5 LOCKERS LEAK DUE TO O-RINGS. ARE YOUR O-RINGS BROWN? IF NOT CONTACT ARB."

"....ARB's are great, but if your compressor goes out you're screwed (Cbassett's went out on the Rubicon trip this week) and he was left without a front locker. I've yet to hear about a Detroit failing."

".....I've had a leaky o-ring, a broken air-line, and a leaky solenoid so far. When it works, it is a great locker." (note: he was describing his ARB)

"....People make out full lockers to be some sort of evil handling demon that will throw your truck off a cliff at the first opportunity. I've had mine in for about 30,000 miles now, and other than an occasional "Ka-POW!" sound (usually while backing up) and increased axle wrap before I put on the torque bar (now slight wheelslip - mini burner - on polished concrete or slick asphalt at low speeds), the thing is transparent. I wouldn't even know it was there, except I almost never use 4 wheel now. It's been to Tahoe, Oregon, Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, etc., and no problems, nothing unusual. So full lockers are not the Devil's own street-handling device in my case."

"....I was going to get ARB's in front, but the hardcore guys in the club all took their ARB's out, tired of wiring and airline probs!"

"....If there is no air pressure applied, heavy duty springs unlock the arb. So if you are staying locked either there is still air pressure to it or something in the arb itself is busted and will need to open pumkin. Look for broken parts when you pop the cover. I have the ARB paperwork in front of me and it really doesn't address your problem."

"....This could be caused by a solenoid valve not opening and venting the air when turned off, or not closing and stopping the air from going to the locker."

".....I'm going to back off of my staunch defense of the convenient ARB locker. Many JUers mentioned ARB's unreliability, while I had no problems for a close to a year while visiting Moab seven times during that period and trying most of the nearby Denver trails. The rear had to be replaced and the compressor was rebuilt in May. The compressor then had to be replaced in July. Now the rear locker would not disengage because of a broken part. Although the ARB reps are terrific in their follow up, their warranty is worthless. I was e-told that the warranty would have covered the broken part and labor if the unit would have been shipped to them. Now tell me, who is going to take the time to crate the unit, send it to ARB for their inspection, be without the use of the Jeep while waiting for a reply."

"ok guys...I just got my stainless steel arb line from rocky road...
I have tried calling them, but no one is answering...
The problem is that I have the line, but none of its fittings will attach to the nipple that comes out of the top of the diff from the arb itself.
What do I do? Am I doing something wrong here?
I went to home depot and sears to try and find an adapter, but to no avail.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

You have to return them and get the correct ones. The fitting sticking out of the diff is metric and uses metric sized line. It gets worse, part of the valve sizes are British pipe on one end and American pipe on the other (NPT)."

"My front arb stopped working, compressor kept running, no lock up. Got in touch w/arb usa and they sent me some o-rings, opened up punkin found 6 bolts and their broken off heads (7mm or 9/32" by 11/2") washers and some type of T-washer attached, and 2 pins broken in half. The teeth on ring gear the ones I can see with out removing locker appear ok any ideas what broke, and is this a simple fix, was the locker installed wrong was locktite supose to be used and maybe wasn't. Guess I should check the back ,dreading that."

"I had ARBs in my stock Dana 30 and Dana 35 for about 4 years. And I now have ARBs in my Dana 60s front and rear. I have had a lot of trouble with ARBs! First, the compressor. I think a cigarette lighter plug-in compressor would be more reliable. It's crap. Plain and simple. Went thru 3 of them.

The Dana 35 locker grenaded on me twice. This was the RD59 model I had the trouble with. The cross-shaft was smaller than stock and I busted it twice. ARB paid the whole bill the first time for the new locker, ring & pinion and labor. The second time, they sent me the new RD69 model with the new larger cross shaft and I had to pay labor."

"Well I for one did not enjoying ripping on something I spent over $2,000 to get parts and install. I used to sound like many of you on the list, thinking ARB's were the greatest thing, other's complained because they were jealous, and people were just mad that they didn't get them the first time. Well, my ARB's turned on me, and I for one would never recommend anyone get these. I have talked to numerous people having problems w/ ARB's, and this list is the first place I have even heard of people having ARB's for several years w/o problems, usually it seemed that anyone I had spoked too that had run them for any amount of time had problems w/ them. Oh well, the bolts that hold the carrier together sheared off my ARB, *under street use*, after 3 months of owning them (hadn't even gotten a good chance to really use them), got caught in my ring and pinion, and there goes my rear end. Then, I got stuck w/ a 3 week turnaround to get this warranteed and repaired on what was my daily driver, so I basically sat home for this time. In the end ARB ruled that it was properly installed, and their fault, and yes it was a Dana 35 model, but this was a little over a year ago, and I have heard of 10 or more people now who have had this happen in Cherokee's. Oh, after this was fixed, I made it about 3 weeks before the solenoid on the compressor went out, not a big deal to replace, but sort of a joke."

"I guess if you don't have the Dana 30 front or 44 rear you may justify it, but ARB's are junk in my opinion. I have heard of Detroit's breaking far less often too. I can only imagine how fun it would have been if my ARB had gone out in the middle of a trail where you need lockers at both ends, and I being left w/o even rear wheels to turn. Not something I could fix, I know that for sure, so I won't mess with them again. I guess if you could set up a ring and pinion, and new locker on the trail though, go for it!!"

"OK, I know I'm not the first one that this has happened to. But I noticed that my Jeep was driving funny after a day of wheelin'. When I suspected that the rear ARB was frozen-up, I raised the rear axle & placed it on stands & attempted to spin the tires to see if they rotated in opposite directions as they are suppose to when unlocked. To my dismay, they spin in sequence all the time. I started my ARB compressor, & tried to see if air was bleeding according to design by turning the diff control buttons on & off several times. It seems to be bleeding normally. I also swapped the front & rear electrical solenoid switches that are mounted on the compressor. But had negative results. Does anyone have any suggestions of how to "free-up" the suspected ARB from it's frozen position?"

"They showed me that if they played with the switches (the dash & switches were all torn apart), that they could intermittently get the rear to lock & unlock. It was true. However, sometimes the front wouldn't lock even though the rear was locked. The Jeep was up on a hoist, so we could spin the wheels and watch what would happen as the lockers were being engaged & disengaged. They told me that they were pretty certain that it was electrical/solenoid/harness related problems at this point. But haven't narrowed it down yet to the cause. Well today I went there on my way home. They "narrowed" it down to six components that they say need to be replaced! Grand total for labor and parts w/tax $248.62. I was kind of relieved that the lockers themselves seem to be OK (still to be determined once all put back together)."

"I noticed a air leak coming from my ARB solenoids, only when they were activated. I figure out it was coming from the front solenoid in the center of the shaft. It is threaded so I found the correct screw, wrapped some teflon tape on it and then tightened it up. I am just wondering why it would be leaking from there? Am I going to mess anything up by plugging it? Is there suppose to be something in there to begin with? Because, the other one doesn't have anything in there and it's fine. Does this have to do with the compressor heating up, a few weeks ago (since it is screwed to a tee in the compressor)?"

"Does anybody know if an auto parts store carrys regular pressure cutoff switches? I can't wait for arb to send one out. POS switch wouldn't cut the air compressor off. I hope I didn't blow out my O-rings. 3 weeks old."
"Just a simple story of how the ARB can surprisingly go to shit. I had been out wheeling and got into a predicament where I had to back up rather aggressively. Well I managed to really dork up my exhaust. I had to cut it off behind the muffler as it was un-repairable...no biggie. Well the exhaust was then blowing straight back to where the hose entered the diff. It heated the line enough to allow it to burst when the locker was engaged. No more locker."

"It started with finding a suction pump at Pep-boys. With this pump I was able to suck the diff. oil out without removing the covers. The rear diff. was a breeze, but when I got to the front, the air line (copper tubing) was in the way of the suction pump hose. Now, like an idiot, I moved the tubing about 1/4 inch, moved real easy. Everything appeared normal and I went wheeling this past weekend. I noticed when I released the air, from the front ARB, the normal psssst sound of releasing air was muffled. When we got back to camp and looked, there was oil in the front air line and diff. oil had been squirting out the front solenoid. I realize now that moving that front copper line caused an air leak inside the diff. I am planning on replacing the tubing this weekend and would appreciate any advice from those of you that are more familiar with this system than me."

"ARBs were working just fine, now I can't get the air to discharge or maybe the compressor to come on. I am leaning toward the compressor not coming on due to that I am not currently locked. Anyone had this problem. Going wheelin this weekend, must have lockers.... help."

"back when i had arb's, the most common problem was the fuse. It went out a lot. they also have an interlock with the front locker and the rear locker. the front will not lock unless the back is already locked. You might want to check to see if this interlock is working. there is also a pressure switch. The unit shuts off once there is enough pressure in the line. If you have an electrical problem to the air solinoid, then the compressor will fill up the one time, then not do anything until the air is released. if the solinoid does not open to let the air out, the air compressor will not turn on, and it will seem like the compressor is not workingm but it is actually the solinoid. You can check this by just letting some air out at the compressor and see if it will start. Of course, check the fuse first. Mine went out a lot."

"When I fire my ARB air locker, the air goes through the housing and out the vent tube. What is the problem here. Any help would be appreciated, want to know what to tell the shop. ARB part numbers would be helpful. Also anyone else who has had this problem, what did it cost to fix. A forum user replies with, "What's it in??? My dana 30 did the same thing after one use. I thought it was the O-rings, but I pulled it and they were fine. It was leaking from somewhere internal to the collar. I pulled it out and sent it back to Drivetrain Direct and they sent me a new one. The new one has given me no problems what so ever."

[sideview]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

You can find the comments anywhere. Seeing you like jeeps, try this one:
"JeepReviews.com
Terrible!!! won't put one in my lawn tractor.
On-road it was almost dangerous, when it would locked up it would jerk the jeep sideways and bang, thought that the axle was coming through the floor. Off-road it worked slightly better until I had to back up and take a second run at an obsticle. It unlocked and then locked up suddenly under power. Blew the axle shaft and destroyed itself to a point it took 4 hours to get the center pin out and removed from the housing. Upgrade to ARB air lockers love them"
Same situation as what I posted. Do you really want me to line or the breakages up in a line for you.

Yup I used to be a Jeep owner...but you're the one who likes jeeps apparently, since you swiped the pic off that forum and all. Where have I said DT is superior or even where has Hank said it?

Fact remains Ian, you said the diff in that pic broke from shock loading when the axle disengaged and engaged which is a lie. You have no credibility. You will say anything, twist truths, smack talk, whatever bullshit you come up with, even lie in attempts not to admit you are wrong.

BTW Hank doesn't need to talk for me and I don't need to talk for him thank you very much. Females are quite capable of learning & retaining information believe it or not. If you (or anyone else ehem XM) thinks for one minute that I would do all I do with my LR3, with the love I have for it, Land Rovers, and the hobby, without extensive research & learning a thing or two along the way you are even more of a moron than Hank believes.

[p76rangie]

Hanks, usual response is to post stuff that is irrelevant.
Where have I stated that ARB compressors are the best on the market and never fail. A lot of your posts deal with the compressor failing. The compressor does not come with the diff lock. You can use ARBs compressor and any number of other brands. I run an ARB compressor and have no problems. Many people I know with ARB lockers do not run ARB compressors. It is personal choice.

Premature "O" ring leaking can be caused by by incorrect fitting. But it can be also through people not reading the instructions with the diff lock and using the incorrect oil (like Hank).

Now out of all those posts by Hank, there seems to be 5 with some issue with the locker.

Two of them have the locker not disengaging. They did not list why.

One had a problem with the diff when operating it as an open diff. That is he had problems with the cross shafts. Maybe he is only of these people that insist of tackling everything without lockers first. Spinning wheels is the usual way of stuffing the cross shafts. The cross shafts serve no purpose when the diff is locked. Therefore, the issue was not caused in a situation that the locker was used.

And two had the bolts holding the centre together break. This was a problem with the very early ARB lockers, but I am not aware of it being an issue this century.

Virtually all of them still drove the thing home as normal.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by sideview

Yup I used to be a Jeep owner...but you're the one who likes jeeps apparently

I was posting the reply to Hank. But of course you never see each other, do you. He can't possibly use your logon.

Originally Posted by sideview

Fact remains Ian, you said the diff in that pic broke from shock loading when the axle disengaged and engaged which is a lie. You have no credibility. You will say anything, twist truths, smack talk, whatever bullshit you come up with, even lie in attempts not to admit you are wrong.

Tell me why the DT broke then. Climbing a watefall is just background, how many others have previously made it up where he was attempting to drive. Now we can get down to which came first, the chicken or the egg. Did the diff cause the axle to break or did the axle cause the diff to break. If it broke on the drive side to the axle that didn't break, then I will agree with you. But you know that it broke on the other side, where there was no stress from only driving one axle.

You have just attempted to make something up about some motive I had for posting the photo other than DTs break. If you are accussing me of lying, are you saying the diff did not break. My post with the Photo was "Shock loaded detroit". Can you seriously look at that photo and say it was not shock loaded. You are lying about me lying.

Obviously you are similar to Hank (even maybe the same person on occassion), you just revert to name calling in a hope that this distracts the person from the fact that you have nothing to back up your claims.

Come on, get serious, I know you (hank) can do better.