This Locker or that Locker

[1hank1]

Yet again, you prove to be a dumbass, Ian.

Have a nice day.

....still waiting on your pics.

[jimfoo]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Show me more picture of broken Detroit lockers. Come on, you said they are "everywhere". I want to see more. I also want to hear how they broke.

There are lots of reports of broken Detroits on Pirate. I broke mine, when an axle broke. They will almost always break when an axle goes. Not having one, how does an ARB hold up to a broken axle?

[jimfoo]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Oh man, this is just awesome!

Oh shit! Are you serious??? Is this not was I said to you and JimFool back on page 2?? Remember, WHEN THERE IS POWER TO THE PINION, THE DT IS LOCKED. Period.

Doesn't prove a thing. Where does it say he was in a corner?

[p76rangie]

Hank, You are starting to confuse me. You knock ARB reliability, yet you changed from a Detroit to an ARB locker.

You show photos of you in a recent rock crawling competition to show how strong detroits are, yet you state that you have double ARB lockers. Who is lying now? Who is attempting to post photos and make out they are something that they are not.

You actually go onto say that you love your ARB lockers.

Everyone knows that Detroits unlock in a corner, unless there is poor traction. When going through a corner you will be either driving or decelerating. Yet you continue to claim that in such circumstances it will be locked. You are obviously out there by yourself on that one as not even the manufacturer backs you up on that. They go to great lengths to explain that it will unlock, as it needs to, to be driveable.

When I state that a DT shock loads the axles and causes them to break, you never seem to disagree with me. You only state that you should use HD axles in a DT. This is what I have stated from the start.

You state that DTs are 200% stronger, yet then admit that they destroy themselves when shock loaded. But you keep on blaming this on axles breaking. Yet you seem to provide no answer as to why axles seem to break in a DT, why a broken axle breaks the diff, or why ARB lockers do not destroy themselves when an axle breaks. If what you state is true, that is putting the drive through one axle breaks them, is this not the same for an ARB locker when an axle breaks. You also do not seem to be able to explain why it is not the drive flange to the remaining axle that breaks. Yet this would be the case if what you say is true.

What you have stated is that you also need HD axles in an ARB, yet you then agree with me when I state that a vehicle running open diffs will stress the axles more.

But my favourite post, well you have actually stated it twice, is that a Rover becomes a front wheel drive when driving through a corner and that there is no load on the rear axle. But you even shoot yourself in the foot over this one as you claim a DT will not unlock through a corner as it is under load and locked. So which is it Hank? Can you make up your mind?

This dual mind thing appears to be very common with you. In one post you state that you will never know that you had a DT installed. But in another post you state “
Yes, the DT will cause most vehicles to act funny on the street. Mainly in turns”

Another example of this dual mind stuff. You quote that the DT will be locked under engine braking. But you then state that the thing will unlock when you reverse out of a parking spot. Do you want to explain how reversing unlocks it, but by applying reverse force (engine braking) doesn’t unlock it?

There is help available for people like yourself that have two minds.

Then we come to your supposed other proof, like the vehicle doing donuts in a carpark. Gee Wiz, that really proves a lot. To do a donut you have to spin a wheel. No one is debating that a DT will lock up when a wheel spins.

You act like an idiot when you think you know the answer to something, but you just shoot yourself in the foot. Now how many “O” rings are there again?

You complain that “O” rings do last long, yet you use an oil that does not promote life in them.

Do you have any feet left, but go ahead and shoot yourself again.

[1hank1]

I'll prove you wrong yet again, Ian. You have a very selective memory. Maybe it's ADHD, I don't know. Either way, it makes you out to be a dumbaass.

Hank, You are starting to confuse me.

That's not hard to do, Ian.

You knock ARB reliability, yet you changed from a Detroit to an ARB locker.

That is correct. You cannot use line-locks with a DT. In a sharp turn, under power, if the line-lock is engaged to the left-rear-tire, the DT will not unlock to turn the corner. The ARB will. When you're in a Comp, your turning radius is everything. It's the different in winning and losing. As a hobby/fun, you can just back up.....

As I said several times, I love my ARBs. But if I'm going to recommend something to someone else, it would be the DT/ARB combo. There is just far less to go wrong when you've taken the time to go wheeling - sometimes 1000's of miles away from home.

You show photos of you in a recent rock crawling competition to show how strong Detroit's are, yet you state that you have double ARB lockers.

See, you cannot even understand what you're reading.

I posted that picture to prove you wrong on you statement. You claimed, directed at Justin (5-speed), that you should not need a locker if both wheels are getting traction. That's just utter bullshit. I posted a picture of a vehicle (mine) getting very good traction to both rear tires, yet a locker was necessary to get over the obstacle.

Go back, re-read, and come back to tell me that I'm right. Again.

Who is lying now? Who is attempting to post photos and make out they are something that they are not.

Show me, Ian, where I said in regards to that picture I had a Detroit locker. Please.

Again, I'm right, you're wrong. You're only making shit up. It's really making you look bad, Ian.

You actually go onto say that you love your ARB lockers.

And I'll say it again. I love my ARB's.

Everyone knows that Detroit's unlock in a corner, unless there is poor traction. When going through a corner you will be either driving or decelerating. Yet you continue to claim that in such circumstances it will be locked.

See, again, selective reading here, Ian. How many fucking times do I need to state this? WHEN THERE IS POWER TO THE PINION, THE DT IS LOCKED.

You are obviously out there by yourself on that one as not even the manufacturer backs you up on that. They go to great lengths to explain that it will unlock, as it needs to, to be drivable.

See, you get your information off a damn manufacture web site. You have no real-world experience here, Ian. Unlike you, I've ran the DT. I ran the DT for a number of years. I know what I'm talking about.

In addition, I started a thread on Pirate just for the amusement. I posted a link to that thread here in this thread. Did you choose not to read it? Here, again, Ian, read it. This is real world stuff here. Not lala land shit that you post. Detroit Locker - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

When I state that a DT shock loads the axles and causes them to break, you never seem to disagree with me.

Yes, and I'll disagree yet again. The DT does not "shock load" an axle. How the fuck can it??? What energy is stored in the DT to create "shock overload"??? The DT is only turning as fast as the ring gear. Are you saying to say that a clutch pack engaging causes enough shock load to snap an axle?? Haha, ok Ian. You have no understand ing at all, do you?

You only state that you should use HD axles in a DT. This is what I have stated from the start.

Yes, you should use HD axles with a DT. You should also use HD axles with an ARB. It's a locker. Being a locker, it places extra stress on your axles. Period. It's that fucking easy.

You state that DTs are 200% stronger, yet then admit that they destroy themselves when shock loaded.

More selective reading here. I stated that the DT is 200% stronger that a stock carrier. Are you really going to dispute this? lol

But you keep on blaming this on axles breaking.

Show me a broken DT that did not break an axle first! Come on, just do it!

Yet you seem to provide no answer as to why axles seem to break in a DT,

I've said it over and over again, Ian. A locker places more stress on a the axles. That is why the axles break. It does not matter if it's a DT or ARB. Lockers break the stock axles. Simple.

why a broken axle breaks the diff,

Shock Overload. You said it yourself, Ian. But, you have it backward - it's not the diff that causes this, it's the axle. The stock axle will twist before it breaks - sometimes up to 180-degrees. When that axles breaks, it re-coils. Re-coil equals what, Ian????? Could it be energy? As that energy reaches the diff, it causes shock overload. Shock overload is what breaks the springs in the Diff. That picture you posted is not a normal break - the author even says so in his write up. You can still drive the truck even after a spring breaks.

or why ARB lockers do not destroy themselves when an axle breaks.

That is one benefit to having an ARB. Still, broke is broke. Upgrade your axles and you will not have this problem anyway.....

If what you state is true, that is putting the drive through one axle breaks them, is this not the same for an ARB locker when an axle breaks. You also do not seem to be able to explain why it is not the drive flange to the remaining axle that breaks. Yet this would be the case if what you say is true.

I have no clue what you're saying or asking here.

What you have stated is that you also need HD axles in an ARB, yet you then agree with me when I state that a vehicle running open diffs will stress the axles more.

Yes, you need HD axles with an ARB. I also said it's not uncommon to break stock axles in an open, stock, diff. It's also not uncommon to break the stock diff.

But my favorite post, well you have actually stated it twice, is that a Rover becomes a front wheel drive when driving through a corner and that there is no load on the rear axle.

This is true. Maybe not 100% of the time, but I bet 90% of the time the a Rover with the LT-230 drive through a corner in FWD.

But you even shoot yourself in the foot over this one as you claim a DT will not unlock through a corner as it is under load and locked. So which is it Hank? Can you make up your mind?

More selective reading by you, Ian. This is getting really sad. Maybe you should see a Doctor?

I said that the DT is locked when there is a load on it. This would be true in such vehicles as a Jeep, Toyota, Series, or any other vehicle with a part-time T-case.

I stated several times, even in my very first post, Ian, that you would never know there is a DT in the rear of a Rover on the street.

Go back, re-read, and tell me again I'm right.

This dual mind thing appears to be very common with you. In one post you state that you will never know that you had a DT installed. But in another post you state “
Yes, the DT will cause most vehicles to act funny on the street. Mainly in turns”

See, you did see my comment! LOL. Yet, you failed to understand it.

Just as I explained, Ian. A Rover has a full-time t-case. MOST VEHICLES do not as that are rear-wheel-drive. If you have a rear-wheel-drive vehicle, you have power to the pinion 24-7. Now, what happens with a DT if you have POWER TO THE PINION?

Another example of this dual mind stuff. You quote that the DT will be locked under engine braking. But you then state that the thing will unlock when you reverse out of a parking spot. Do you want to explain how reversing unlocks it, but by applying reverse force (engine braking) doesn’t unlock it?

First, I never said that "engine breaking" will lock the locker. You claimed that going down a hill, under engine breaking, the DT will be unlocked. Fact is, the DT will not be unlocked. The DT only unlocks in turn when there is no power to the pinion.

How hard is it, Ian?

There is help available for people like yourself that have two minds.

AS I've proved to you over and over and over and over again, Ian. I'm right, and you are wrong. You have no clue as to what the hell you're talking about.

Then we come to your supposed other proof, like the vehicle doing donuts in a carpark. Gee Wiz, that really proves a lot. To do a donut you have to spin a wheel. No one is debating that a DT will lock up when a wheel spins.

So, what you're saying is, that when there is power to the pinion, the DT locks? huh.....

You act like an idiot when you think you know the answer to something, but you just shoot yourself in the foot.

LOL, look in the mirror, Ian.

Now how many “O” rings are there again?

Wait, isn't this the question I asked you several time over and over a page or two back that you never answered? Aren't you the one who claimed several times, in several different posts, that there was only 1 O-ring in the ARB?

Unbelievable.

You complain that “O” rings do last long, yet you use an oil that does not promote life in them.

Haha, Ok, Ian. I even posted a string of other people who have the same problems. It's not just me. If you have not had an O-ring go out, you will.

Your ring and pinion wear. Your bearings also wear inside the diff. As these parts wear, that product metal shavings. Pull out your magnet drain-plug and you'll see lots and lots of them. These metal shaving eat the o-rings. Period. I don't case what oil you run or how often you change it. Metal eats rubber. End of story.

But, humor me, what oil should I be using?

Do you have any feet left, but go ahead and shoot yourself again.

LMAO.

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by jimfoo

There are lots of reports of broken Detroits on Pirate. I broke mine, when an axle broke. They will almost always break when an axle goes. Not having one, how does an ARB hold up to a broken axle?

That is correct. If you loose an axles, chances are you will loose the DT. That is why you need HD axles.

The ARB typically does not break when and axles breaks. They have, but it's not as common as they are in DT's.

In either case, you need HD axles.

[sideview]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

I was posting the reply to Hank. But of course you never see each other, do you. He can't possibly use your logon.


Tell me why the DT broke then. Climbing a watefall is just background, how many others have previously made it up where he was attempting to drive. Now we can get down to which came first, the chicken or the egg. Did the diff cause the axle to break or did the axle cause the diff to break. If it broke on the drive side to the axle that didn't break, then I will agree with you. But you know that it broke on the other side, where there was no stress from only driving one axle.

You have just attempted to make something up about some motive I had for posting the photo other than DTs break. If you are accussing me of lying, are you saying the diff did not break. My post with the Photo was "Shock loaded detroit". Can you seriously look at that photo and say it was not shock loaded. You are lying about me lying.

Dahh, it's all there in black and white already. I'm not going to hold your hand to walk you through it...again.

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

If you ever went tp driving school, you should know that you should always drive through a corner. That is, don't brake while going through a corner, don't coast through it, but drive through it.

Oh yeah, forgot about this.

Here you go, Ian. Again, you're trying to act like you know me. You don't. You have no idea what I've done in life. You have no idea what I do in life. You want to talk about Driving Schools? Have you even been to driving school? I have.

[jimfoo]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

The biggest myth about the Detroit and TT is the statement jupiter made; bad driving habits. You will never ever know the Detroit in in the back of a Rover. Period.

Contradicted by your pirate reference as is the "if there is power to the pinion, it's locked" statement.

Originally Posted by Pirate 4x4

"it supposed to unlock the outside tire in the turn, but it really only does as long as you are off the gas, or just barely on the gas. to much throttle will cause the inside tire to slip and lock the detroit. this is where 99.9% of the handling quirks come from and it's especially pronounced in short wheel base vehicles."

Never even know it's in the back, period? Why does it have handling quirks then? "Barely" is still on the gas, and is an objective statement, and is still power to the pinion. "to much throttle will cause the inside tire to slip and lock the detroit" sounds like quite a bit of gas to me, and yes it should lock if the outside tire slips from too much throttle. To be fare though, you both have contradicted yourselves in places, you Hank and you Ian. The point is a Detroit is going to make the vehicle pull towards one side versus an open diff or an ARB in a corner. All the testimonials in the world aren't going to prove whether this is from the inside wheel only getting power(what the maker claims) or because it is locked. The only way to actually prove that it's because it is locked is to have wheel speed sensors on each wheel, showing that both are turning at the same speed. If you can't come up with that published data, why should anyone believe you over the manufacturer and engineers? Anyone on Pirate can spout whatever they want, but that doesn't make it true. Pirate is not the gospel as I have read a lot of BS on there about a lot of things, just like any other forum.
If I had the money, I'd rather have the ARB myself though. I do break the HD upgraded 24 spline axles in my Series on rare occasions, and I'd rather replace just an axle than have to fix the diff.

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by jimfoo

Contradicted by your pirate reference as is the "if there is power to the pinion, it's locked" statement.
Never even know it's in the back, period? Why does it have handling quirks then? "Barely" is still on the gas, and is an objective statement, and is still power to the pinion. "to much throttle will cause the inside tire to slip and lock the detroit" sounds like quite a bit of gas to me, and yes it should lock if the outside tire slips from too much throttle. To be fare though, you both have contradicted yourselves in places, you Hank and you Ian. The point is a Detroit is going to make the vehicle pull towards one side versus an open diff or an ARB in a corner. All the testimonials in the world aren't going to prove whether this is from the inside wheel only getting power(what the maker claims) or because it is locked. The only way to actually prove that it's because it is locked is to have wheel speed sensors on each wheel, showing that both are turning at the same speed. If you can't come up with that published data, why should anyone believe you over the manufacturer and engineers? Anyone on Pirate can spout whatever they want, but that doesn't make it true. Pirate is not the gospel as I have read a lot of BS on there about a lot of things, just like any other forum.
If I had the money, I'd rather have the ARB myself though. I do break the HD upgraded 24 spline axles in my Series on rare occasions, and I'd rather replace just an axle than have to fix the diff.

JimFool,

Do you have a reading disability, too?

Go back, re-read, and come back to this page and tell me what I really said.

Never even know it's in the back, period? Why does it have handling quirks then?

I think I made a pretty in depth dicription about a part-time and a full-time t-case. Re-read it.

Do you have a Rover with a LT-230, JimFool? Does it have a DT?

I do break the HD upgraded 24 spline axles in my Series on rare occasions,

Really? And it does not break you DT locker?

What kind of axles are these? What brand? Where did you get them?

[jimfoo]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

I think I made a pretty in depth dicription about a part-time and a full-time t-case. Re-read it.

Do you have a Rover with a LT-230, JimFoo? Does it have a DT?

Yes, no

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Really? And it does not break you DT locker?

What kind of axles are these? What brand? Where did you get them?
Do you have a reading disability, too?

Go back, re-read, and come back to this page and tell me what I really said.

Looks like you are the one with either the reading disability or Alzheimer's. Just a couple posts up I said the DT broke when the axle did. They are GBR 24 spline as he is about the only one who makes them for Series.

[1hank1]

road manners with detroit in the rear - DiscoWeb Message Boards

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by jimfoo

They are GBR 24 spline as he is about the only one who makes them for Series.

So, you're saying you broke a 24-spline HD axle that was sold to you by Bill at GBR?

.....paging Shawn Davis.

[jimfoo]

Guess I should also mention your Pirate reference has people with trail rigs answering your question, so they would never be on the pavement doing any normal driving anyway. BTW, guess you are getting re-banned on Pirate. Seems to be a pattern doesn't it?

[1hank1]

Guess I should also mention your Pirate reference has people with trail rigs answering your question, so they would never be on the pavement doing any normal driving anyway.

You're making a pretty generlized statment there, JimFool. Are you sure you want to stick by that?

BTW, guess you are getting re-banned on Pirate. Seems to be a pattern doesn't it?

Awwww, you think that bothers me that bad? Do you, really? Do you really think I will loose sleep over it? Do you really think I cannot clear my cookies and re-register is I ever feel the need? Just like I do here? You're an idiot, JimFool.