This Locker or that Locker

[1hank1]

So what you saying is that a locker has benefits other than to stop a wheel from spinning? Come on, stop avoiding the answer. How will a diff lock help when the two wheels involved have perfect traction?

You're a dumbass, Ian. Even a retard understands what a locker is and what it does.

Then actually read the manufacturers manuals when fitting something. It also might help not to do it with your eyes closed.

Tell me, Ian. What have I done wrong? Humor me. Again! You're the one claiming I installed the worng gear oil per the manufacture spec listed in the manuel. So tell me, what have I done wrong!!

So you admit that the most common cause of a broken axle is shock loading. It is just your educated opinion that this never occurs with a DT.

Again, you read this to fix what ever fixation you have, lol.

Let me say it with big letter this time so I can revert back to it over and over and over for you.

A DETROIT LOCKER DOES NOT CAUSE SHOCK LOAD. YOU CAN HAVE SHOCK LOAD WITH A STOCK DIFF. SHOCK LOAD IS NOT CAUSE BY A DETROIT LOCKER. SHOCK LOAD IS CAUSED BY A BREAKING AXLE.

Get it yet, Ian?

M..a..y..b..e.. i..f.. I.. s..p..e..a..k.. m..o..r..e.. s..l..o..w..l..y
Your saying it is the shock load that breaks the DT.

YES!!!!

To have a impact from a shock load, the shock has to be apllied to something.

In this case the DT!!!!!

The most likely point for this shock to be applied to is the wheel(axle) that is in contact with the ground (not broken).

No, the shock load that breaks the DT is from the axle. The wheel has nothing to do with it.

Big tires break the axles.

Axles break the diff.

Therefore you would expect the impact to be felt by the drive flange connected to that axle.

Yes, it is. In some cases all 5 of the flange bolts have been known to sheer. Yes, all 5 at once.

But it is the other side of the DT that breaks. So the shock on that side must have had something to impact against. This would indicate that the broken axle was still in one piece and contacting the ground when the DT went bang!!!.

No, here you're worng. The axle has to be BROKEN BEFORE THE DT BREAKS.

Again, show me a broken Detroit that was NOT a result of a broken axle. I've asked you for this 10 times now. You still fail to do so.

Know why? You can't!

Very interesting interpretation of how the shock load can be spread over a well made axle.

It's not only interesting, it's Church.

But this is not what you were being asked, but again you avoid everything that goes against what you are trying to push.

Of course its not. It's not the answer you want to hear, lol....

The question is: You state that it is the shock load from the axle breaking that destroys the DT.

That is correct! Yeah, you do understand!!

That means that some type of engery has to be stored in something that is in contact with the DT.

Yes!!! It is the axle. Just like I've said what seems to be 100 times now.

The only part remaining in contact with the DT is approximately 1 inch of broken axle. How does this small piece of metal store enough energy to break the diff?

How can you say this? Have you only ever seen 1 broken axle in your life?

Tell you what. It's dark here in the USA right now, but tomorrow afternoon, I'll snap some pictures of broken axles for you. I have them as tomato stakes in my garden. You'll see that "1" of axle" is not the norm. 1" of shaft breaking off shows you how cheap the Rover axles really are.

Nevertheless, yes, 1" of re-coiled shaft can and will break a DT locker. Were talking some major re-coil here. But, I have a feeling you would not understand that, either

You keep on avoiding the questions. When you are reversing you have power to the pinion.

Sure you do, if you back up really fast! This is not how I, or most other people back up.

You state that the DT is ALWAYS locked when there is power to the pinion.

Correct.

Yet you also state that it is unlocked when reversing. So just tell us which one is true.

It depends on IF THERE IS POWER TO THE PINION.

If I'm backing up in a clear parking lot with any speed at all, yes, the DT will lock in a turn. It will remain locked in a straight line.

But if I'm back out of a parking spot, like you asked, then no, it will not lock. Very little, if any, power is to the pinion. The clutch is normanly pressed when backing in a 5-speed truck. In an automatic, there is not enough power going to the pinion to lock it.

Now, if you're backing up a hill, this is a different story.

We are not talking about truch engine brakes here. You are just attempting to avoid answering anything. With engine braking (in a 4wd terminology) the power is coming from the wheels through to the motor. That is the reverse direction to what it normally does.

As my defination #2 said.

When you reverse, the power through the DT is going in the opposite direct to what it normally does. So the forces operating on the DT are the same. Is this sooooo hard for you to understand.

Again, do you back up so fast that the engine slows you down?

As I already said - when I'm backing up out of a parking spot, my engine pushed me. It does not hold me back.

So make up your mind! is it locked in reverse, is it locked when power is to the pinion, is it locked when engine braking going down a hill

I've said it over and over and over and over and over again, Ian.

After the song and dance you did about there being only 1 "O" ring, and being proven wrong, you now try to convince us that you knew it all along.

LMAO!!! DO you really want me to quote you here?

But, please quote me!!! Where did I say there was only 1 O-ring?? Please, Ian, show me!!!

Fact is, you can't. I know how many and where each O-ring is located. Remember, I installed my diff myself. I understand how it's put together.

Most people here aren't that thick. And now you state that there are "O" rings on the air lines. On the diff end there is a copper ring,

Are you honestly trying to tell me there is no O-ring on the outside of the diff nipple? Hahahahahaha

on the solenoid end it simply slips into the solenoid. Where are these "O" rings you talk about.

There is a rubber O-ring on the brass connector. Again, I'll take a picture for you in the AM here in the USA.

So taking a corner correctly is coasting into it, through it, and then only drive out of it. I am glad I am not in that vehicle with you. And they let you do this with a basic driving course?

Yep. I can see you now holding the throttle to the floor when entering a turn. lol.... Moron.

Now tell us exactly what type of emergency vehicle you drive and where you drive it.

Mainly Ambulances. Everything from a F-450 to a 10,000lb International to a Dodge Charger responce vehicle with the police package.

Thanks for that, now I do not have to post the pictures to find out what you are getting at. Are you so desperate as to try and claim I do not have ARB lockers. Why not, you accuse everyone of lying when they say something that you disagree with.

Still no pics?

Post the times I have said this and the context. I honestly can't remember ever saying this.

I did in the post below. But, I have a feeling you'll have an answer to fit your story this time. Seems to be a thing for you; you just work your story around to fit how you want it to sound...

Your pulling out all stops now. You have actually been doing some research. Good on you. Now if you like to read any of my previous posts you will know that I ran standard axles for years with a locker. You will also note that I went to maxidrive axles in the rear only when I went to 4.11 diffs. You should also note that in this thread and others, I have always stated that you need Hd axles in the rear when you go to 4.11's

So, 4:11's break axles? I thought it was "shock load"? Which is it?

BANG BANG. shot yourself again.

Huh?

So you keep on proving that you know SFA about suspension or diff locks.

SFA?

[1hank1]

Yes you can fix an airline on the trail in 5 minutes. Seeing that you have a fixation with this, I will explain it to everyone. If you look at where your airlines connect to the solenoids you will notice a orange ring. By simply prssing this ring the airline will come out. You can then simply push it back in. Not very difficult is it. Now ARB sell these connectors in a double sided configeration for joing airline. They only cost a few dollars each. So if you put a hole in you airline, simply cut out the leak and put one of the joiners in. If the line is destroyed over a longer distance, you just carry a small length of the airline hose and two of the quick connects. So Hank, how long would it take to cut a piece of plastic pipe and push the two ends into a connector. It probably would take you a few hours, but most people could do it in 5 minutes.

Sure, these are all parts I carry in my "kit". Again, I'll show you tomorrow in the day light.

Tell you what. While you're taking pictures of you set-up for us, also take a few pics of these repair parts for us. I mean, if you're going to fix an air-line in "5-minutes", you've got the parts, right? So, lets see them!

Still, you;re avoiding telling us how you will fix the O-rings, the VERY MOST COMMON FAILURE IN THE ARB, in 5-minutes. These are the O-rings inside the diff.

In regard to the problems with the ARB locker that I had, please post the link to the thread. I can guarantee that it does not list any of the issues that you stated. That is, I have NEVER had any of the problems you stated except I was stupid enough to put a self tapping screw through the air line and not realise it. Hardly a fault with the locker.

You can't remember because it was a lie.

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

Hank, stop logging in under sideviews logon.
So far these are only allegations by you. Your statements have not showed up anything so far, but keep on digging, you may find something.

Are you still on this? lol

Tell you what. Have the Admin check the IP address. Maybe that will shut you up.

......but somehow, I bet not.

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

So thanks for the link. So over 12 months ago I stated:






And somehow you reckon I have changed stories?????

So this is the quote you were referring to:

I had a vibration in my drive train after fitting the rear locker. I took it to ARB. The real ARB, the actual factory where they make the stuff. They went over it and could not find anything. But offered to pull out the locker and replace it if I wanted. I told them to leave it. I took it back a second time for the same reason. They took it for a drive with sensors and cameras fitted to the vehicle. They tracked down the vibration to the prop shafts. Had nothing to do with their locker. Even though they spent several hours on the vehicle, I did not get charged a cent.

I have a good relationship with the ARB head office and factory. Been right through the plant several times, spoke to their design engineers, etc. I have had other warranty issues involving ARB equipment and have always been looked after.

You are not very consistent in your arguments. In one line you accuse me of not having a front locker and then in the next you bring up about me putting a self tapping screw through my front air line. You need to sit back for a while and get your thoughts together.


So what are you going to come up with next to try and avoid answering the basic questions you are asked

LOL. A "vibration" caused by a 3rd member? LOL......

I bet these "design enginners" were laughing their ass off at you.

[1hank1]

Oh man. This one got by me, lol

Originally Posted by p76rangie
bigger tyres mean less wheel spin, less shock loading = easier on axles.

That's some funny as shit right there!

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

You're a dumbass, Ian. Even a retard understands what a locker is and what it does.

I take it that you reckon your not a retard as you can't answer the question.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Tell me, Ian. What have I done wrong? Humor me. Again! You're the one claiming I installed the worng gear oil per the manufacture spec listed in the manuel. So tell me, what have I done wrong!!

Already did. You should use 85/140 oil and it should be limited slip.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Big tires break the axles.

So now everyone that has broken a DT was running big tyres. You keep on grasping at straws.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

How can you say this? Have you only ever seen 1 broken axle in your life?

I have seen many broken axles. They all break in the same spot. Now post you pictures of STOCK ROVER axles that have broken somewhere else.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Nevertheless, yes, 1" of re-coiled shaft can and will break a DT locker. Were talking some major re-coil here. But, I have a feeling you would not understand that, either

You are just proving how weak DTs are.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Sure you do, if you back up really fast! This is not how I, or most other people back up.

It depends on IF THERE IS POWER TO THE PINION.

If I'm backing up in a clear parking lot with any speed at all, yes, the DT will lock in a turn. It will remain locked in a straight line.

But if I'm back out of a parking spot, like you asked, then no, it will not lock. Very little, if any, power is to the pinion. The clutch is normanly pressed when backing in a 5-speed truck. In an automatic, there is not enough power going to the pinion to lock it.

You are a legend. You can back out of a parking spot without using any power from the motor. But what!!! ....There seems to be an admission at the end that it is not whether you have power to the pinion, but how much power you have to it. Which is it? How much power is needed to lock the diff?

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Are you honestly trying to tell me there is no O-ring on the outside of the diff nipple? Hahahahahaha

BANG BANG. You say that you installed the locker yourself. Your photos of your garage even show the connector to the diff. Explain where the "O" ring goes????

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Yep. I can see you now holding the throttle to the floor when entering a turn. lol.... Moron.

That's right, try and exaggerate things when you don't want to deal with them. Driving does not mean having the foot to the floor.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Mainly Ambulances. Everything from a F-450 to a 10,000lb International to a Dodge Charger responce vehicle with the police package.

To quote you, "Post the pictures". You did not answer as to WHERE you drive them.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Still no pics?

I was only going to post them to see you shoot yourself in the foot again, but you did that without me posting them. That is, in one breath claiming I had no front locker and the the next wanting me to explain why I did not fix my front locker air line. I don't have to argue with you, you argue with yourself.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

So, 4:11's break axles? I thought it was "shock load"? Which is it?

People with 4.11's is not that common. Are you stupid enough to try and argue that the most common cause of breaking axles are 4.11's?

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Sure, these are all parts I carry in my "kit". Again, I'll show you tomorrow in the day light.

Again you are proven wrong. Again you state that you already knew it. Now rush off and buy the bits, once I have explain the benefits of them, and take photos of them.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Still, you;re avoiding telling us how you will fix the O-rings, the VERY MOST COMMON FAILURE IN THE ARB, in 5-minutes. These are the O-rings inside the diff.

You obviously start to believe the stuff that you keep on repeating. You have found posts of mine that were over 12 months old, now find the post where I said you could fix the "O" rings in the diff in 5 minutes.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

LOL. A "vibration" caused by a 3rd member? LOL......

I bet these "design enginners" were laughing their ass off at you.

No they didn't. As stated, they were very helpful.
It was so obvious that it was not the diff that it took them two visits and several hours to identify it. After the first visit they even offered to replace the diff lock as they thought it could be causing it. But you are the genius aren't you. FIGJAM!

You just attempt to criticize anything you don't understand, which is a lot.

[p76rangie]

That's it now. This has dragged on too long. You keep on avoiding the questions, can't explain any logic behind your theories and anything that anyone posts is a lie.

So here are some my dick is bigger than yours stuff that you like.
I was Army trained in 4WD's 32 years ago. You know back when the Series 3 was just released. I have been driving/riding off-road for 40 years. I hold a certificate for an ADVANCED 4WD driving course, I am a qualified Marshal for OFF ROAD competitions. I use to drive emergency vehicles, but not your slow ambulances, high speed pursuit vehicles.

My Rangie is a 1984, with a 1990 interior, ZF4 transmission (not available in 84), it was originally a 5 speed manual, has a tapered bearing transfer case and then runs to 4.11 diffs. I have front and rear ARB lockers and Maxi-drive axles. I run 34 inch Simex JT2's on offset rims. Have a rear ARB step bar, Cut and Flared guards, offset rims, TJM front bull bar, Steering protection guard, Heavy duty Maxidrive track rod, Warn 9.5XP winch, On-board air with 22 litre tank, at idle it can run most air tools. The motor runs on LPG, I have a laptop connected to a GPS for navigation and external GPS antenna. I have a cold air intake, but no snorkel. I have a high energy ignition system. Engine fan has been replaced with twin thermos. I have a truck rated auto transmission cooler and twin engine oiler coolers. The thing has a 2 inch body lift and 2 inch spring lift. I also run a Landrover "County" rear load leveler. Of course I have a UHF CB, extra gauges, ARB compressor, front and rear recovery points. It has a high compression 4.6 with Holley carb, headers, and 2.5 inch exhaust system and high flow mufflers.

I am a member of the 4WD club that commenced off road competitions in Australia and has the highest proportion of competition drivers than any other in Australia.

That should give you enough to last you for years. Pity you won't get a response in this thread. Have fun with you accusations and name calling and of course, by you, I am lying about everything I just said. That is why I don't get into my dick is bigger than yours crap as you will just list it as all being lies and it has no relevance as to whether what I say is correct or not. But it seems to make you feel important.

For those that really want to know how the DT operates, just read the operation manual (link below) it will clearly explain how EVERYTHING that Hank has been saying about it being locked through corners, etc, is bullshit. Read the driving test at the end and all the other tests, if it doesn't unlock in a corner it is not installed properly. There is only one MORON in this thread
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/publ.../ct_128312.pdf

[CaptainRuss]

Ian, you have got to be one of the stupidest, yet most stubborn fools I have ever read in a forum. It started out kind of fun reading this thread. I thought that you might actually understand 1hank1's very simplified explanation of how a DT works eventually. But then, you just became sad and pathetic and I started to feel sorry for you. I thought it quite nice of hank to try and educate you. Unfortunately, you are ineducable. But here it is simply: you are wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

I don't know if this will help in your understanding but I think that the source of your confusion lies in that you are mistaking traction for power. They are not the same. Start with that and go back and re-read all of hanks helpful words and the light may actually start to flicker in that thick skull of yours.

Good day.

[sideview]

Ian's passion for 4WDs began at quite a young age.

[jimfoo]

I sure hope that thing has rear steer because it just doesn't look right.

[1hank1]

I take it that you reckon your not a retard as you can't answer the question.

Ian, if I have to explain the different between a locker and a stock diff to you, there is no hope for you....

Already did. You should use 85/140 oil and it should be limited slip.

Limited Slip???? You mean LSD??? Oh my God, Ian! Did you not read that e-mail from ARB about NOT using LSD fluids in the diff? Are you so retarded that you realy just said this???

Oh Man....

So now everyone that has broken a DT was running big tyres. You keep on grasping at straws.

No, I did not say that. You did.

I stated that bigger, heavier, more aggressive tires but additional stresses on the axles.

We already know that the stock axles are junk; you can break a stock axles with smaller tires such as 235'85/16's. But rarly do you hear of someone breaking a quality "HD" with 235/85/16's, with or without 4:11's. When these HD type axles break, it's almost always with a larger tire and lockers.

I have seen many broken axles. They all break in the same spot. Now post you pictures of STOCK ROVER axles that have broken somewhere else.

You asked for them:

As I stated eariler, I use my broken axles as garden stakes. They're great for that:






Here is one axle that did not break 1" from the tip:





Also not how clean the break is. That is a tale-tale sign of poor metal. A metal of quality, and with a good heat treated RW rating would be all jagged and sharp.

Here is another:



As you can clearly see, the axle broke at the drive-flange. Again, a very clean break.

The other axles I have are fronts. If you really want me to, I can pull them out of the ground and take pics of them, too.

You are just proving how weak DTs are.

Jeez......

You are a legend. You can back out of a parking spot without using any power from the motor. But what!!! ....There seems to be an admission at the end that it is not whether you have power to the pinion, but how much power you have to it. Which is it? How much power is needed to lock the diff?

Tell me, Ian. Do you want me to decrip this in detail with a 5-speed, part-time t-case, on in a Rover with a AWD t-case? All I have to do it copy and paste my other posts. Tell me, what do you want to hear.

BANG BANG. You say that you installed the locker yourself. Your photos of your garage even show the connector to the diff. Explain where the "O" ring goes????

At the diff, the O-ring is under the silver HD air-line adapter.

Here is the picture again to refreash your memory:



As we can all see, the top of the adapter is flared. With a flared fitting you do not need a rubber seal.

But, between the HD air-line adapter and the bass fitting, there is a O-ring. There has to be. Look at this picture. Here is my extra HD air-line fitting.



NOTICE! There is only a flared fitting at one end. The other end uses a O-ring.

Here the O-ring is being installed at the diff:



There is also a O-ring at the compresson side of the air line:



There is another O-ring where the standard air-line meets the HD air-line, if you use the HD air lines:



There are also two more O-rings inside the diff. They look like this. These are my spares:



Over time, the O-rings wear. They also turn a shade of red or orange. This is how you know they need to be replaced.

That's right, try and exaggerate things when you don't want to deal with them. Driving does not mean having the foot to the floor.

I've posted video. I've told you how to take a corner. And you still want to go by your own lodgic. Yet, you still have not showed us WTF you're talking about.

To quote you, "Post the pictures". You did not answer as to WHERE you drive them.

OK.

Go here www.rescue20.com

Look in the member list. See if you see my name listed! The vehicles are all posted there, too.

Sorry, I don't have any "action shots". I do have this, though.



I also drive other vehicles for other aganices. Sorry, no pics there either. But if you really want me to get some, it's not that hard.

I was only going to post them to see you shoot yourself in the foot again, but you did that without me posting them. That is, in one breath claiming I had no front locker and the the next wanting me to explain why I did not fix my front locker air line. I don't have to argue with you, you argue with yourself.

Still no pics...........

People with 4.11's is not that common. Are you stupid enough to try and argue that the most common cause of breaking axles are 4.11's?

I wonder what companies sell more of; axles or 4.11:1 gears..... Dumbass.

[1hank1]

Again you are proven wrong. Again you state that you already knew it. Now rush off and buy the bits, once I have explain the benefits of them, and take photos of them.

Go out an buy them?? lol
Here you go, Ian. Review this three post thread from 2006 DiscoWeb Message Boards

Compair that picture to this picture:

You obviously start to believe the stuff that you keep on repeating. You have found posts of mine that were over 12 months old, now find the post where I said you could fix the "O" rings in the diff in 5 minutes.

You said you could fix problem in a ARB diff in "5-minutes". The O-rings inside the diff are the most common breakage. Are you now saying that you cannot fix this in "5-minutes"? Which is it? Do I really need to go back through all these pages to quote you?

I also like how you posted this link:
http://www.arbusa.com/alac/alsp/6-01.pdf

Show me where is say's to use a LSD oil!

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

No they didn't. As stated, they were very helpful.
It was so obvious that it was not the diff that it took them two visits and several hours to identify it. After the first visit they even offered to replace the diff lock as they thought it could be causing it. But you are the genius aren't you. FIGJAM!

You just attempt to criticize anything you don't understand, which is a lot.

Yeah, when I have a vibration, the first place I look is the fucking diff......

Dayum.....