This Locker or that Locker

[1hank1]

That's it now. This has dragged on too long. You keep on avoiding the questions, can't explain any logic behind your theories and anything that anyone posts is a lie.

I've posted. Re-posted. And even backed my shit up. We're still waiting for you daughter to to stop taking nude pictures of here self and posted them on the Internet so you can get a camera to back your shit up. How many days has it been now?

So here are some my dick is bigger than yours stuff that you like.
I was Army trained in 4WD's 32 years ago. You know back when the Series 3 was just released. I have been driving/riding off-road for 40 years. I hold a certificate for an ADVANCED 4WD driving course, I am a qualified Marshal for OFF ROAD competitions. I use to drive emergency vehicles, but not your slow ambulances, high speed pursuit vehicles.

Lets see you Certs, Ian! Pictures, scan, web site, what ever.

Marshal? LOL. Wow, that's exciting. I was a Marshal at a event once in 2003. That sucked! Have not "been there, done that" since and never care to again.

My Rangie is a 1984, with a 1990 interior, ZF4 transmission (not available in 84), it was originally a 5 speed manual, has a tapered bearing transfer case and then runs to 4.11 diffs. I have front and rear ARB lockers and Maxi-drive axles. I run 34 inch Simex JT2's on offset rims. Have a rear ARB step bar, Cut and Flared guards, offset rims, TJM front bull bar, Steering protection guard, Heavy duty Maxidrive track rod, Warn 9.5XP winch, On-board air with 22 litre tank, at idle it can run most air tools. The motor runs on LPG, I have a laptop connected to a GPS for navigation and external GPS antenna. I have a cold air intake, but no snorkel. I have a high energy ignition system. Engine fan has been replaced with twin thermos. I have a truck rated auto transmission cooler and twin engine oiler coolers. The thing has a 2 inch body lift and 2 inch spring lift. I also run a Landrover "County" rear load leveler. Of course I have a UHF CB, extra gauges, ARB compressor, front and rear recovery points. It has a high compression 4.6 with Holley carb, headers, and 2.5 inch exhaust system and high flow mufflers.

Is this to flex you e-dick, as you put it? Do you think you have something up on me? Your junk is pretty common stuff here in the States. I'll post pictures of mine, unlike you.

4.6 being build. BY ME.


Going in the truck. BY ME.



Headers being installed. BY ME.


Does that look like your typical GEMs cam and timing set? Would you even know, Ian?


The motor as it sits today:


Electic cooling fans are uncommon?


Laptop in a vehicle? Is that uncommon, too? Granted, I took it out of my wheeling truck because it was getting beat. But, I do have one in my "more mild" truck:


High flow mufflers? lol
Short video of MY truck http://virginia4x4.org/Videos/D2%20006.avi

I am a member of the 4WD club that commenced off road competitions in Australia and has the highest proportion of competition drivers than any other in Australia.

So, where are you Comp pics?

That should give you enough to last you for years. Pity you won't get a response in this thread. Have fun with you accusations and name calling and of course, by you, I am lying about everything I just said. That is why I don't get into my dick is bigger than yours crap as you will just list it as all being lies and it has no relevance as to whether what I say is correct or not. But it seems to make you feel important.

Get that camera back from you whore daught, yet?

For those that really want to know how the DT operates, just read the operation manual (link below) it will clearly explain how EVERYTHING that Hank has been saying about it being locked through corners, etc, is bullshit. Read the driving test at the end and all the other tests, if it doesn't unlock in a corner it is not installed properly. There is only one MORON in this thread
http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/publ.../ct_128312.pdf

[/quote]

Blah blah blah. Back to this again?

[1hank1]

Damn, I should have proof read my posts for spelling and grammer. Haha.

Oh well....

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by CaptainRuss

Ian, you have got to be one of the stupidest, yet most stubborn fools I have ever read in a forum. It started out kind of fun reading this thread. I thought that you might actually understand 1hank1's very simplified explanation of how a DT works eventually. But then, you just became sad and pathetic and I started to feel sorry for you. I thought it quite nice of hank to try and educate you. Unfortunately, you are ineducable. But here it is simply: you are wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.

I don't know if this will help in your understanding but I think that the source of your confusion lies in that you are mistaking traction for power. They are not the same. Start with that and go back and re-read all of hanks helpful words and the light may actually start to flicker in that thick skull of yours.

Good day.

I am not going to indulge Hank anymore with his stupid attempts to divert things away from the simple facts of how a Detroit Locker works.

So for those that are either too stupid or lazy to read the Operators Manual that comes with a Detroit, Here are the sections that will explain how it unlocks through corners, how it unlocks when driving over obstacles, how it shock loads the drive train, and how engine braking (deceleration) is impacted.
I am not sure how many times they have to tell you in the manual that it unlocks during cornering before the intellectually challenged comprehend it. But here are some of the many statements in the manual. Note: they do NOT say that it will stay locked under power and they do not differentiate between rear wheel drive and AWD.

“The performance of a vehicle equipped with a NoSPIN/Detroit Locker differential is somewhat different from that of a vehicle equipped with a conventional differential. For example: When turning a corner, the sound of component disengagement and re-engagement may be audible, and the transfer of driving torque from both wheels to one wheel may be noticeable.”

“The NoSPIN differential powers both wheels. Yet freely permits wheel speed differentiation when required.”

They even define differentiation for you!
“DIFFERENTIATION - The different rate of speed between two wheels of an axle when making a turn or over uneven surfaces.”
Even listed as a “Prime function of the DT
“Prime functions
3. Compensates for differences in wheel travel when turning or operating on uneven surfaces.”
More statements:
“When the vehicle turns a corner, or when one wheel passes over an obstruction, the outside wheel, or the wheel passing over the obstruction, must travel a greater distance and therefore faster than the other wheel. When this occurs, the NoSPIN differential automatically allows for the necessary difference in wheel speed.”

“During a turn, the inside driven clutch remains completely engaged with the spider and continues to drive the vehicle. The outside driven clutch automatically disengages from the spider, allowing the outer wheel to turn freely in the turn. When the vehicle completes the turn, the outside driven clutch automatically reengages the spider, as both wheels again travel at the same speed.”

“When going from drive (acceleration) to coast (deceleration) in a turn, a "metallic" sound may be heard as torque flow is reversed (inside wheel engaged during acceleration; outside wheel engaged during deceleration).”
They even list as a problem if it doesn’t do it:
“PROBLEM
Steering difficulty; vehicle pulls on straight forward driving or tends to go straight when making turns. No differential action; binding in turns”
And of course you are suppose to check that it does unlock after you have installed it:
“INSTALLATION TEST
To check normal NoSPIN operation, drive the vehicle on a flat surface with good traction, in a right or left circle in forward and reverse to be sure that the outside wheel is free to overrun (i.e. that the outside tire does not scuff). A clicking or indexing sound may be heard. The sound of gear re-engagement may also be heard upon completion of the turn. This is normal.”
Now that should be enough statements from the manufacturer to state that it DOES unlock when turning.

Now, as far as the locker is concerned, it can’t tell whether you are going around a corner or whether one wheel is going over a rock or one has fallen in a hole. All it knows is that one wheel is travelling further than the other.

So all the quotes dealing with turning also apply to going over obstacles. Drive has to applied to the locker to drive over an obstacle, so having power to the pinion has no affect on its actions. But for those that are a bit thick, they even spell it out for you:

“When the vehicle turns a corner, or when one wheel passes over an obstruction, the outside wheel, or the wheel passing over the obstruction, must travel a greater distance and therefore faster than the other wheel. When this occurs, the NoSPIN differential automatically allows for the necessary difference in wheel speed.”

“The NoSPIN differential powers both wheels. Yet freely permits wheel speed differentiation when required.”

“DIFFERENTIATION - The different rate of speed between two wheels of an axle when making a turn or over uneven surfaces.”

“Prime functions
3. Compensates for differences in wheel travel when turning or operating on uneven surfaces.”

Now onto the shock loading it applies to the axle to break it. It states that there is a large amount of slack in the drive train with a DT fitted:

“We feel that the total driveline slack can amount to as much as 1/4th turn of the driveline without being abnormal.”

It also notes that when it disengages an axle, it can cause the other wheel to lose traction:

“When negotiating a turn (outside wheel disengaged), the inside wheel under conditions of poor traction may receive excessive torque, which could cause it to break traction momentarily until its speed is equal to the outside wheel. This will result in re-engagement of the outside wheel thus allowing both wheels to be driven.”

So you have one wheel going over a rock, due to the traction of the rock, that wheel will disengage as it is travelling the greater distance. By it disengaging, it causes the other wheel to lose traction. So you are under power and suddenly the wheel going over the rock tries to reengage. It will have up to ¼ turn of the wheel to reengage. If this is not shock loading, I do not know what is. This is when the things go bang and break the diff and axle with it. This is after the axle has already been weakened by all the times that the thing only drives through one axle.

Now we get onto engine braking. The manual states it outright that engine braking is reduced:

“Braking capacity is reduced when a NoSPIN differential equipped vehicle makes a turn while coasting downhill in that the inside wheel is then disconnected from the driveline. Operating in low gear will allow the engine to act as a retarder and will improve braking capacity.”

Now some of you will highlight that it states that it is when braking while making a turn. Just remember that it can’t differentiate between a turn and an uneven surface. I do not know many 4WD tracks with an even surface.

So you might then query as to when a DT actually engages. Well we all know that it will engage when we lose traction to one wheel, but when both wheels have some traction, the only time it is engaged is: “As long as the vehicle is operated in a straight forward or reverse direction over a smooth surface, the driven clutch assemblies remain locked to the spider assembly.”
So how many roads and tracks do you go along that meets this description, Not Many!. So a significant part of the time the DT is putting all its drive through ONE axle.

So if it doesn’t unlock when the manufacturer states that it should above, the diff is stuffed and not functioning properly. So people who claim that it operates differently need to look at their setup.

[ArmyRover]

jesus h. christ is it that time of the night again ......

[1hank1]

Hmmm,
Does a DT locker ever chirp or bark the tires when you make a turn in a vehicle with a part-time t-case? Just wondering.

Ian,

Got those pictures yet?

[p m]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

I am not going to indulge Hank anymore with his stupid attempts to divert things away from the simple facts of how a Detroit Locker works.

Will you ever stop it, Ian?
Of course Mr-not-anonymous-Hank-anymore knows how a Detroit works. You can keep your nit-picking forever, including quoting the Operator's Manual (something you accused him of doing).
It's pointless to brandish credentials; there's no shortage of people in the U.S. claiming nearly direct descendance from Bill Burke and yet displaying complete ignorance of physics of four-wheeling.
Hank isn't one of them, period.

[BuyRovers]

Originally Posted by p m

Will you ever stop it, Ian?
Of course Mr-not-anonymous-Hank-anymore knows how a Detroit works. You can keep your nit-picking forever, including quoting the Operator's Manual (something you accused him of doing).
It's pointless to brandish credentials; there's no shortage of people in the U.S. claiming nearly direct descendance from Bill Burke and yet displaying complete ignorance of physics of four-wheeling.
Hank isn't one of them, period.

X2! Dan is right and has been all along. You lose...

[p76rangie]

All these new users popping up and supporting Hank with first post. Obviously Hank's mates, as they can't read. That's right, Hank knows more than the people who make them. The manufacturer states that it is stuffed if it operates the way Hank states. He is just too stupid to know when something is knackered. Idiots!!!!!!!

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

All these new users popping up and supporting Hank with first post. Obviously Hank's mates, as they can't read. That is right, Hank knows more than the people who make them. Idiots!!!!!!!

Again, Ian. I'll ask you again.

Does your ARB air locker lock or unlock the second you flick the switch?

The ARB user manuel says it does. Is this really the case 100% of the time?

[1hank1]

What? Still no pictures from Ian?

[BuyRovers]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

All these new users popping up and supporting Hank with first post. Obviously Hank's mates, as they can't read. That's right, Hank knows more than the people who make them. The manufacturer states that it is stuffed if it operates the way Hank states. He is just too stupid to know when something is knackered. Idiots!!!!!!!

Joined in 2/07, not just now to post regarding your stupidity. And I am not one of "Hanks Mates" but I do know who is right and it is not you. And yes it is my first post, I joined and lurked on here for a while then realized there are better sites.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by BuyRovers

I do know who is right and it is not you.

Obviously your as stupid as Hank. Read the "Problem" section of the DT manual. OOOOPs forgot you can't read!!!
You and Hank do not have a clue as to how a DT operates! Now go away back to Dweb!!!!

[1hank1]

I guess the guys on Pirate are dumbasses, too.

You've been out-weighed more times than I can count, Ian.

Again, answer my question about the ARB.

Again, post them pictures.

We're waiting.

[Bwana]

Holy Fucking Shit!!

Here's my experiences with the Detroit: Around town, I never know it's there. But, that's mostly slow 90 degree turns. On the highway, in a curve, it will wiggle the rear as I change from acceleration to deceleration. Off road, it never unlocks. Well, not at Hot Springs, there's not enough traction, even on the parking lot, to make the locker disengage, the inside tire just spins more than needed. There's no special oil needed. A Detroit Locker will not allow any wheel to spin slower than the ring gear. Faster, but not slower. So the inside wheel on a turn is the driven wheel. I've never had my Range Rover bark a rear tire on asphalt, even when I do accelerate in a turn. My thinking is that there's enough slack in the Detroit to allow the tighter TruTrac in front to pull it around, and never really power the rear pinion, allowing the Detroit to unlock. I couldn't swear to that. I have driven home several times with a rear axle removed, and the swaying in the rear is worse. I love my Detroit Locker. Well I did until I broke it at Barnwell during SCARR. On the 7th 10 spline rear axle that I've broken the Detroit finally gave up. But, I took out the broken axle and wheeled 2 more days on 3 axles, and then drove it home. Now, I'm going to upgrade to 24 splines, and get another Detroit Locker. And, I think an ARB up front. Then, I'll follow hank through Twister and maybe not break.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Again, answer my question about the ARB.

Again, post them pictures.

We're waiting.

Alright, The only thing you reckon you have me on is that I said there is no "O" rings in the airline between the Compressor and the Diff, and you reckon there is.

You are so full of shit with your photos. First off the rover diff you photo does not have the standard fitting on it. It has a fitting required for the heavy duty hose. You say that because the end of it is curved it means that it must have a "O" attached to it. Again bullshit, it means that the pipe bolted to it is flared. Then you post a picture of a NON_ROVER diff with a pipe hanging out the top and a "O" ring sitting there. You are really full of it. At least post a photo of a Rover diff. Now the "O" ring sitting there proves nothing. You are also splitting hairs as to whether the "O" ring is part of the air line as you first quoted. It is actually part of the diff fittings.

But you can half a point for your bullshit. ARB do make one fitting that has an "O" ring where you state. But it is for diff locks with the narrower copper pipe inside the diff. But ONLY ONE connection type to the diff has an “O” ring, all the rest have a copper ferrule. That is 4 out of 5 are copper, not "O" rings. I have the copper type and so have all other ROVER diffs that I have seen. Here are all the fitting types.
http://www.arbusa.com/alac/alsp/4-01.pdf
This shows the other end of the line and you will note that there is no “O” ring listed as a part, except for the internals of the solenoid, That is, nothing on the air line. So why do they list all the other "O" rings and just miss out the one that you reckon is there? Simple, it is not!!
http://www.arbusa.com/alac/alsp/5-07.pdf
But you showed a heavy duty airline kit. This is NOT part of the standard diff lock setup, so now you want to bring in optional extras to support your argument, but all the parts are listed here:
http://www.arbusa.com/alac/alsp/4-02.pdf
But again no “O” listed as a part.

So that is the only thing that you reckon you have proved me wrong on.

The other bullshit photos also prove nothing. Just because you have 4.6 written on top of your motor does not make it one. Mine has 3.5 on the tappet covers. All you can tell from the photo is that it has 4 bolt mains. The only way by photo to prove it is a 4.6 is to show the stamp on the crank. So full it out and put it beside your "Junk", pull off the sump and take a photo of the 4.6 stamp.

In regard to your other bullshit about ARB stating that flicking the switch will "immediately" engage or disengage the locker, Take a photo of it and prove it or just put it with the rest of the crap you put out.

I do not know why I bother to post this as you will only come up with some crap like the manufacturer doesn't know their own product.

Eaton have said that you are wrong on EVERY point you have raised about the DT, but you have your head so far up your arse that you honestly think you know more than them. You are so thick that you must be from down south.

And why we are at it, I look up the course you did for your ambulance license. I reviewed the course timeframe, participant books, instructors books. It spends more time worrying about doing the proper paperwork than any driving technique and it goes for less time than the course I did to become a Marshal. At least mine was 4WD related and yours has nothing to do with it. So go back to your volunteer search and rescue ambulance, which they may let you sit behind the wheel occasionally.

Stop the bullshit and at least try and stick to the thing that you know nothing about. That is, a DT.

But this is definitely the last response to your attempts to sidetrack things and avoid answering any questions.

Why haven't you faked an email from Eaton saying that their diffs stayed locked when driving through a corner. Dickhead!!!