This Locker or that Locker

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Okay

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH

So that was the rape you were promising. I didn't even feel it. I thought that yours was just small, it must have been very tiny. At least it is over, as I was freezing my butt off waiting. Now if I can just straighten up again.

You do need to go away and work out how a normal diff works (includes the centre diff). You will then figure out the answers to most of the points you raised.
"In an automobile and other wheeled vehicles, the differential allows each of the driving wheels to rotate at different speeds, while supplying equal torque to each of them."
OR
“The most common type of differential found on cars and trucks are known as Open Differentials. An open differential always applies the same amount of torque to each wheel. There are two factors that determine how much torque can be applied to the wheels: equipment and traction.”
OR
“The open differential applies equal torque or turning power to both wheels on the drive. This torque has to be commensurate with the traction or grip that the driven surface provides. The wheels will slip and the vehicle will not move if torque is more than traction.”


Just admit you have been wrong all along and stop trying to dig yourself out of the large hole you dug.

[1hank1]

So that was the rape you were promising. I didn't even feel it. I thought that yours was just small, it must have been very tiny. At least it is over, as I was freezing my butt off waiting. Now if I can just straighten up again.

There is nothing to debate, Ian. You asked me to show you where you were wrong. I only got to page 4 and I quoted you many times. There was still another 7 pages to go. I would be typing for hours.

You asked for it, you got it.

Then, you come up with some other bullshit about open diff's. You're avoiding the topic here. You ask for one thing, then change the subject when you've been proven wrong. You've doen this several times in this thread as well.

But I do like this quote though:

You do need to go away and work out how a normal diff works (includes the centre diff). You will then figure out the answers to most of the points you raised.
"In an automobile and other wheeled vehicles, the differential allows each of the driving wheels to rotate at different speeds, while supplying equal torque to each of them."
OR
“The most common type of differential found on cars and trucks are known as Open Differentials. An open differential always applies the same amount of torque to each wheel. There are two factors that determine how much torque can be applied to the wheels: equipment and traction.”
OR
“The open differential applies equal torque or turning power to both wheels on the drive. This torque has to be commensurate with the traction or grip that the driven surface provides. The wheels will slip and the vehicle will not move if torque is more than traction.”

By reading those definations, you make it sound as if both rear tires get equel torque and lock. We both know this is not the case. You're quotes that you copied and pasted have nothing to do, at all, with Detroit lockers. You quotes have nothing to do, at all, with locking diff's. You just wanted to change the subject to pull attention away from me proving you wrong. Again.

Sad, Ian. Man up. Admit you're wrong. Admit you have no knowledge of real life Detroit locker use.

Got your camera back you?


Just admit you have been wrong all along and stop trying to dig yourself out of the large hole you dug.[/quote]

[cellulararrest]

Christ, Ian. You're wrong, man. Give it up. Please.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by cellulararrest

Christ, Ian. You're wrong, man. Give it up. Please.

Some people are just thick. I been able to prove EVERYTHING I have said. Yet you still claim I am wrong. What exactly do I still have to prove.

[1hank1]

"Everything"?

Prove that I am using multiable usernames.

You're a moron, Ian.

Camera still missing?

[p76rangie]

As you are not going to go away, lets deal with a few of your points

Originally Posted by 1hank1

So, if both wheels are turning at “exactly” the same rate of speed, and the Detroit locks back together, this causes “shock load”? If two gears mesh perfectly together at a timed, in sequence motion, how can this cause “shock load”? If what you’re saying is true, each time the gear box shifts gears it causes “shock load” on the gear box, t-case, drive shafts, diffs, axles, and drive flanges.

Now, I could see that if one wheel is turning wildly and you try to engage the second wheel from a stopped or reduced speed into the works. Yes, that would cause some serious shock to the components.

You just answered your own question. What causes the DT to relock? The other wheel losing traction losing traction an starting to spin. The wheel taht was unlocked only did so because it had traction. So you have a wheel starting to spin, and the DT starting to spin and then it suddenly comes into contact with an axle going slower with good traction. That it hits with a bang.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

This is why the ARB locker explodes when locked at speed; you’re trying to jam two parts together at two different rates. It’s much like jamming 1st gear at 50mph – something has to give.

An ARB locker can be engaged at ANY speed without going bang. What you can't do is engaged it when one wheel is spinning madly.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Here you claim that the Detroit twists axles. This, again, is only half true. Yes, a Detroit places additional stress on axles shafts. This is not limited to just Detroit lockers, though. This is the case with ANY locking diff. It’s the same with an ARB, Lincoln locker, or a Detroit.

In addition, “driving through one wheel: is not what is causing the twists in the axles. It’s the additional stress.

An ARB or selectable diff lock is an open diff when not locked. That is it drives through both axles. A DT cannot drive through both axles unless it is locked. It is only locked when going in a straight line on an even surface. The only time an ARB will drive through one axle is when it is locked and a wheel is off the ground. So a DT drives through a single axle a far portion of its life on and off the road. Therefore it stresses and twists axles more.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Furthermore, this is not the case in all axle shafts. My axles shafts are made if 1541H; Maxi-Drive, I think, uses 4140. If it’s not 4140, it’s probably 300m, but I doubt it. Either way, 4140 or 300m both are designed to twist under pressure. This goes back to the waisted axle design I explained to you in this thread.

This is just a side track! A DT will stress an axle more. ANY axle more. There are many brands of axles out there made of many types of material. Some will handle the stress better than others.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Here, you fail to understand the basic principle of the LT-230. You attempt to let on that the LT-230 sends power to the rear axle 100% of the time while in normal driving conditions. This is just plain and simply not true.

If the transfer case is not locked, it is an open diff. This is why I posted how an open diff worked.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

The LT-230 takes the path of least resistance. You know full well that the inside rear tire of a Detroit equipped vehicle is under pressure while in a turn on the highway. Pressure = resistance. The front end will drive the Rover through the corner and send virtually no power at all to the rear pinion. This is the reason people never know the Rover has a Detroit locker installed on the highway. Here, the rear drive shaft is allowed to spin freely and wildly as the tire turns the axle that turns the diff that turns the pinion………..

Again look up how a open diff operates. I did not post the definitions for the sake of it. It was to answer this stupid points from a person that does not know how a diff works.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

This is a lot more common in a 5-speed vs. an auto gearbox.

Do you want to explain this theory further.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

What are you driving, your Rover? There is always power to your rear pinion when driving? Shit, why the hell do you need a diff lock on the t-case then? For looks?

Again, learn how a diff operates. I do not know about you, but I do not use the diff locks on the road.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Only if the t-case is locked, Ian. Normally this statement is incorrect.

…….path of least resistance.

Again, learn how a diff operates.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Why would this happen? Because there is power to the pinion when making a turn with the t-case locked? If one wheel were allowed to slip in every case, like the manual states, why would the DT push your front end?

It mainly attempts to push you in a straight line when there is not sufficient traction to unlock properly. That is, very wet roads, Snow, Ice, Dirt roads, etc.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

So now the Detroit unlocks fully? Which is it, Ian? You state that the DT only unlocks the faster moving tire, yet here you allude to the DT free-spooling. Free-spooling would only be a case if there were not power to the pinion – meaning the t-case is unlocked.

Are you serious? The DT is "Unlocked" when one axle is disengaged. It can't unlock both axles and I have never stated this.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

This would be normal in a part-time 4wd truck with a DT in the front and the hubs locked. The axles still turn. But, you can select 2wd (rear wheel drive) and turn the vehicle. There is no power to the front pinion, from “engine braking” or otherwise. The DT then free-spools. There is no power to the pinion.

Once 4wd is selected again, and power is restored to the pinion, the vehicle then becomes hard to turn. In other words, when there is power to the pinion, the DT is locked.

I am not sure what you are getting at here. If you read the manual you will see that it states that under deceleration, it is the slower moving wheel that "unlocks" So on a "Uneven Surface" going down a hill under engine braking, only the faster moving wheel is engaged. This will not supply as good a engine braking as having two wheels proving traction.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

This is a place you really contradict your self. Here you say “only on a dirt road”. You then confirm this here in this post:

….then you say here something different…..

….again, you can read the stuff but still not understand what you’re reading. The wheel may loose traction on pavement, in dirt, on-road, off-road, or on the moon. When the drive tire loses traction (spins faster), it will lock the diff.

You are really grasping at straws here. I say in two statements that the thing is more likely to stay locked on a dirt road due to the drive wheel losing traction when the faster moving axle attempts to disengage. Then I state that it may also happen on a sealed road if you apply enough power.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

If you enter a turn under power, the DT is not going to unlock. It may try to unlock, but you’ll end up getting under-steer and the rear end will try to slide out from under the vehicle. This causes the wheel to slip and the DT to re-lock.

Obviously most people don't drive like you. You would have to have a fair amount of power down and on a road with marginal traction. Even with the centre diff unlocked and one rear axle unlocked, the power is still going to 3 drive wheels in rover vehicles built in the last 30 years. Again, learn how a diff operates. If you are talking about part time 4WDs like Jeeps, it will all depend on what motor they have, what tyres they have, and what the road surface is like.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Wrong again, Ian. ARB’s do need HD axles to last.
Yes, the chances of busting a diff are slim if the axles break – unlike the Detroit – but it’s still a locker. It still needs HD shafts. This is just a no brainer.

So exactly how many years have you run standard axles with ARB lockers? Thats right, none. So don't talk to me about what an standard axles will handle. I ran 10 splines with lockers for many years. I had a 4.4 running through axles designed for a 3.5. I had an auto box running axles designed for a manual. An auto increases the torque applied to the axles by two fold. The final straw was when I increased the torque being applied to the axles by a further 17% by putting in 4.11's. So don't even start to suggest that you know what standard axles will handle. Even ARB states that 24 spline standard axles are fine with their lockers. They do not like the 10 spline axles as the bearings have a smaller inside diameter. This means that the diff centre is weaker and they have been know to crack. It is all covered in their website.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

If what you say is correct, you would be able to lock your t-case, jack up the rear end of your truck, and spin both rear tires forward at the same time the gear box is in reverse and under power. It’s not going to happen, Ian.

Neither tire can or will unlock in this case. Both tires are allowed to spin faster then the ring gear (pinion) at the same time. If that were so, you would have no engine breaking at all. Period. That would also mean that in a part-time t-case truck, while in 2wd, you would have zero engine braking. That would mean when you downshift a 5-speed, on the street or elsewhere, the vehicle would not slow down. That would mean if you take your foot off the accelerator, the truck would maintain speed.

In other words, you’re wrong, again.



Wrong again, Ian.

A locker, “normal” or not, is placing more strain on the components. Remember “engine braking”? Now, with a locker, are one or two axles being strained when engine braking? Is one or two axles locked together, going to place more, or less, stress on U-joints? Is one, or two axles locked together, easier to turn when in contact with the ground?

I do not have a clue what you are talking about here.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

There is nothing to debate, Ian. You asked me to show you where you were wrong. I only got to page 4 and I quoted you many times. There was still another 7 pages to go. I would be typing for hours.

You asked for it, you got it.

You have just demonstrated that you can't prove me wrong. The operation of the DT answers all your questions, yet you can't put up anything against how I have said it operates. So you want to drag up every little driving situation that can occur and debate it. You are just trying to drag this thing out until I give up.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Then, you come up with some other bullshit about open diff's. You're avoiding the topic here. You ask for one thing, then change the subject when you've been proven wrong. You've doen this several times in this thread as well.

By reading those definations, you make it sound as if both rear tires get equel torque and lock. We both know this is not the case. You're quotes that you copied and pasted have nothing to do, at all, with Detroit lockers. You quotes have nothing to do, at all, with locking diff's. You just wanted to change the subject to pull attention away from me proving you wrong. Again.

I did not bring up the open diffs to sidetrack things. Go back and look at my responses to your questions. Most of your questions would be answered if you just took the time to learn how a normal diff operates.

I am sure that you must be more intelligent than you sound. You are 100% correct, open diffs are not like locking diffs.

Are you going to bring up the same stupid points time and time again. Are you going to quote every word I have written and try and find something in it other than what I actually said. Or is this thread going to be the sequel for the Da Vinci code.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

"Everything"?

Prove that I am using multiable usernames.

You're a moron, Ian.

Camera still missing?

You have been accused by others also of using Sideviews logon. You have also tried other logons here and on Pirate4X4. So No I cannot prove you do, but this is where you continue to try to sidetrack things. When I said that I had been able to prove EVERYTHING, I meant EVERYTHING I have stated about how a DT operates.

You can't still be serious about wanting to sidetrack this discussion to whether I have twin lockers or not. Why would I have stated many times, prior to this thread even starting, that I had them when I don't. I am not even going down that path. Just like your crap that I do not even own a 4WD and in the next breath you want to see my blue paint in the picture of the locker switches. You are just full of shit.

You have proved that you know nothing about DTs. You had to go to Pirate4X4 to find out what they did before you posted a response here. They told you a very similar story to me and told you to piss off and stop wasting their time. So even with them telling you that you were wrong, you continued to dig a hole for yourself here.

Now to try are dig yourself out of the hole you dug in regard to DTs, you are digging a bigger hole for yourself by proving that you don't even know how a standard diff operates.

How long are you going to keep this up before you put your tail between your legs and go back to wherever you have been for the last 12 months.

I know that I am sick of responding to your shit, but you just keep on going.

I am sure that the other users are also sick of this shit. So do everyone a favour and stop it.

[1hank1]

Per open diff's:

"The open differential always applies the same amount of torque to each wheel. There are two factors that determine how much torque can be applied to the wheels: equipment and traction. In dry conditions, when there is plenty of traction, the amount of torque applied to the wheels is limited by the engine and gearing; in a low traction situation, such as when driving on ice, the amount of torque is limited to the greatest amount that will not cause a wheel to slip under those conditions. So, even though a car may be able to produce more torque, there needs to be enough traction to transmit that torque to the ground. If you give the car more gas after the wheels start to slip, the wheels will just spin faster."

In other words, Ian, you're a dumbass. You take common operating procedures and twist them into Church. You're not applying basic real world truths into the equation.

It's really easy, Ian. Go get in your fucking truck, with the t-case unlocked and make some turn under power. I don't give a shit if it's on the street or in the grass. The inside FRONT wheel will be the first to break traction. It's the path of least resistance. Surly your big bad 4.4L is powerful enough to do this, right?

This is why it does not mean shit in a Rover if it has a DT in the rear. people have told you over and over and over again, Ian, that they never know the DT is in the rear. This is real life experience. You do not know this because you only want to believe what's in the fucking manual. You're out of you element here. You talking about Detroit lockers would be like you talking about how your stomach hurts while PMSing. You don't know shit about it. Yes, you can read about it, but you don't know shit about it and it shows.

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

You have been accused by others also of using Sideviews logon. You have also tried other logons here and on Pirate4X4. So No I cannot prove you do, but this is where you continue to try to sidetrack things. When I said that I had been able to prove EVERYTHING, I meant EVERYTHING I have stated about how a DT operates.

You can't still be serious about wanting to sidetrack this discussion to whether I have twin lockers or not. Why would I have stated many times, prior to this thread even starting, that I had them when I don't. I am not even going down that path. Just like your crap that I do not even own a 4WD and in the next breath you want to see my blue paint in the picture of the locker switches. You are just full of shit.

You have proved that you know nothing about DTs. You had to go to Pirate4X4 to find out what they did before you posted a response here. They told you a very similar story to me and told you to piss off and stop wasting their time. So even with them telling you that you were wrong, you continued to dig a hole for yourself here.

Now to try are dig yourself out of the hole you dug in regard to DTs, you are digging a bigger hole for yourself by proving that you don't even know how a standard diff operates.

How long are you going to keep this up before you put your tail between your legs and go back to wherever you have been for the last 12 months.

I know that I am sick of responding to your shit, but you just keep on going.

I am sure that the other users are also sick of this shit. So do everyone a favour and stop it.

Where is those pictures, Ian? Still trying to figure out Photoshop?

[1hank1]

Maybe I should just admit that:
1) All axles will fail with Detroit lockers because they're "shock loaded", even though people have been running them for 12-years and never had issues. But, since Ian says it, it must be true.
2) ARB's do not place any stress on axles. You can run stock 10-spline axles in Moab daily and never have issues. I know this because Ian ran 10-splines for a long time in his imaginary Rover with ARB's.
3) Detroit lockers always unlock in turns when under power. Mine must have been broken.
4) The LT-230 is actually a full-time t-case and the CDL is only there for looks. Equal torque is to both drive-shafts 100% of the time, thus one drive-shaft is never without power. Even if I remove 1 axle from by totally stock truck, I will never have to lock the t-case to drive ever again.
5) I only wheel dirt roads
6) I am multiple people on this forum
7) My motor is not really a 4.6
8) ARB's only have 1 O-ring
9) HD axles are for wannabe's who can't drive
10) No matter how many people who doubt Ian, he is always right.

Thanks for clearing all that up for me, Ian. Get your camera back yet?

[cellulararrest]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Maybe I should just admit that:
1) All axles will fail with Detroit lockers because they're "shock loaded", even though people have been running them for 12-years and never had issues. But, since Ian says it, it must be true.
2) ARB's do not place any stress on axles. You can run stock 10-spline axles in Moab daily and never have issues. I know this because Ian ran 10-splines for a long time in his imaginary Rover with ARB's.
3) Detroit lockers always unlock in turns when under power. Mine must have been broken.
4) The LT-230 is actually a full-time t-case and the CDL is only there for looks. Equal torque is to both drive-shafts 100% of the time, thus one drive-shaft is never without power. Even if I remove 1 axle from by totally stock truck, I will never have to lock the t-case to drive ever again.
5) I only wheel dirt roads
6) I am multiple people on this forum
7) My motor is not really a 4.6
8) ARB's only have 1 O-ring
9) HD axles are for wannabe's who can't drive
10) No matter how many people who doubt Ian, he is always right.

Thanks for clearing all that up for me, Ian. Get your camera back yet?

Sounds about right, Dan. Thanks for clearing this all up. .

[jimfoo]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Where is those pictures, Ian? Still trying to figure out Photoshop?

Actually if you do a search, he has quite a few pics up on the forum, and even a recent video in "Old Vs New".

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by jimfoo

Actually if you do a search, he has quite a few pics up on the forum, and even a recent video in "Old Vs New".

You will have to link me.

[cellulararrest]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

You will have to link me.

Old Vs New