This Locker or that Locker

[p76rangie]

I have driven a truck for some time with a Detroit. That is why I hate them with a passion.

This is an extract from the owners manual, which shows the calibre of your advice and is virtually word for word what I have been stating.

"When negotiating a turn (outside wheel disengaged), the inside wheel under conditions of poor traction, may receive excessive torque, which could cause it to break traction nomentarily until its speed is equal to the outside wheel. This will result in re-engagement of the outside wheel thus allowing both wheels to be driven."

I now wait for the next lot of name calling.

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

I have driven a truck for some time with a Detroit. That is why I hate them with a passion.

This is an extract from the owners manual, which shows the calibre of your advice and is virtually word for word what I have been stating.

"When negotiating a turn (outside wheel disengaged), the inside wheel under conditions of poor traction, may receive excessive torque, which could cause it to break traction nomentarily until its speed is equal to the outside wheel. This will result in re-engagement of the outside wheel thus allowing both wheels to be driven."

I now wait for the next lot of name calling.

See!!! You can read it, type it, copy and paste it, and still have no clue what you just read!!

THE INSIDE WHEEL MY BREAK TRACTION!
Traction is continuous contact with the pavement. If a wheel breaks traction, that means it's spinning! Why the hell is the wheel spinning? Could it be because the locker is locked?

RE-ENGAGEMENT
Does re-engagement not mean engaged? Or, in this case, LOCKED???

I have driven a truck for some time with a Detroit. That is why I hate them with a passion.

No you haven't. If you had, you would know the difference from your ass and a hole in the ground.

You're out of your element here, P76. Actually, you're out of you element in everything you post on the forums. But, what ever. You may have seen your sister's, uncles, brothers, mail mans, next-door-neighbor drive a truck with a DT once. But you obviously have never driven a truck with a DT.

[jimfoo]

Having had a Detroit for years, I have to agree with P76, especially since I installed it and see how it works. It is made so a wheel can turn faster than the other in a turn. I have felt mine unlock in a turn.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

WHEN THERE IS POWER TO THE PINION, THE DETROIT LOCKER IS LOCKED.

Want to talk about it unlocking in a turn????? Ok. Lock your t-case and go drive through a turn at speed. See if the Detroit unlocks! Better yet, so you do not get hurt, go into an empty parking lot and so some sharp turns with the t-case locked. WHEN THERE IS POWER TO THE PINION, THE DETROIT IS LOCKED.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

THE INSIDE WHEEL MY BREAK TRACTION!
Traction is continuous contact with the pavement. If a wheel breaks traction, that means it's spinning! Why the hell is the wheel spinning? Could it be because the locker is locked?

No.

Originally Posted by p76rangie
I have driven a truck for some time with a Detroit. That is why I hate them with a passion.

This is an extract from the owners manual, which shows the calibre of your advice and is virtually word for word what I have been stating.

"When negotiating a turn (outside wheel disengaged That means unlocked), the inside wheel under conditions of poor traction(snow, sand on the pavement), may receive excessive torque, which could cause it to break traction momentarily until its speed is equal to the outside wheel. This will result in re-engagement of the outside wheel thus allowing both wheels to be driven."

[p76rangie]

Hank, you just prove that you will continue along your path no matter whether you are proved wrong.

Because you can't read I will put it is plain english. On turning the corner, or any other time that one wheel turns quicker than the other, the wheel traveling the greater distance will disengage. The warning in the manual is saying that by the drive to one wheel disengaging, it will put all the drive through the other wheel. This extra stress on that wheel may cause it to lose traction. If this occurs the other wheel will re-engage. What I have been saying is that every time this occurs it puts a shock through the drive train. What I have also been saying is that unless both wheels are turning at EXACTLY the same rate (that is, in a straight line on a flat surface), in good traction conditions, the thing causes you to drive through one axle.

So I the only thing I can attempt to teach you now is basic comprehension of the written word.

You will have to come up with better insults though if you wish for them to have any affect.

Edit: Just noticed that I was posting at the same time as Jim. We have basically said the same thing.

[1hank1]

Dude, you're BOTH wrong. YES, a DT will unlock when turining. Everyone knows that. BUT, if you add power to the pinion the DT is LOCKED. Period.

Drive into a turn. The DT is LOCKED.

Drop one wheel into a hole off-road and give the truck gas. The DT is LOCKED.

Do a donut. The DT is LOCKED.

Coast around a turn. The DT is UN-LOCKED

Back out of a parking spot. The DT is UN-LOCKED

It's really THAT easy, guys. Lock the T-case. Go for a drive. Go around a turn and hit the gas. You will squeal BOTH rear tires.

Push one tire aganist a rock. Put the other tire in loose gravel. BOTH TIRES WILL SPIN WHEN YOU HIT THE GAS.

It's so simple it's retarded. WHEN THERE S POWER TO THE PINION, THE LOCKER IS LOCKED.

You guys are limiting your experence to the Rover, which is a poor example. The DT is GREAT in a Rover, don't get me wrong. But they still work the same way.........

It's easy guys. Go for a drive, since you have a DT in your truck and all.

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by jimfoo

I have felt mine unlock in a turn.

I bet it unlocked when you let off the gas, too.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

DYES, a DT will unlock when turining. Everyone knows that.
Drive into a turn. The DT is LOCKED.

Now find the section in the owners manual that states this.
Pretty simple request!!!
You are just back up to your old tricks of trying to sell something that you can make a profit out of.

It seems that most people agree that an ARB is better than a Detroit. The selling factor of the detroit is that it is cheaper. I thing that I have found time and time again is that you go for something based on price to will nearly always regret it later on. If you really need a locker, get a proper one rather than a cheap one.

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

Now find the section in the owners manual that states this.
Pretty simple request!!!
You are just back up to your old tricks of trying to sell something that you can make a profit out of.

It seems that most people agree that an ARB is better than a Detroit. The selling factor of the detroit is that it is cheaper. I thing that I have found time and time again is that you go for something based on price to will nearly always regret it later on. If you really need a locker, get a proper one rather than a cheap one.

As I stated before, I rather have a DT in the rear.

Fuck the manual. Go pull your front drive shaft and lock the t-case. Go make some turns. You'll soon see I'm right.

You're wrong. As always

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

As I stated before, I rather have a DT in the rear.

Fuck the manual. Go pull your front drive shaft and lock the t-case. Go make some turns. You'll soon see I'm right.

You're wrong. As always

Come on, can't you find anything to back up what you are stating. You have not changed at all

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

Come on, can't you find anything to back up what you are stating. You have not changed at all

Yes. Experience and a basic understand of how the DT works. You have neither.

If what you said were right, and if the locker un-locked every time it sensed drag on one tire, the thing would never be fully locked when climbing though obstacles. That is just not the case.

Want another test? I mean, since you have a DT installed in your own truck and all.......

Get you a big ratchet strap. Wrap the strap over one rear tire and snug it down tight. By stopping that tire , you are creating drag, right? Hit the gas. See if only one tire spins.

Want a lot easier test? Pull a rear axle. It will take you less than 3-minutes. Lock the t-case and see if the rear wheel with the axle installed drives. I 100% guarantee it will! Know why?

Pull your front drive shaft. Lock the t-case. Go for a ride and make a turn under acceleration. Better yet, start into the turn slow, so you can hear the DT ratchet, then stomp the gas. I 100% guarantee the DT locks up mid-turn. Know why?

It's a really simple design. It really is. It's not hard to understand at all. Well, unless you're a moron it's not hard to understand.....

For everyone else, think of the Detroit as an un-locker. The DT is locked 100% of the time when driving in a straight line. The DT is locked when the pinion is under power. By design, the DT will not let the axles turn slower than the ring gear. When the pinion is NOT under power, or when you coast into a turn, the DT will unlock.

In these Land Rovers with the Lt-230 t-case, when you make a turn, it's the front wheels driving - not the rear. Try it. With the t-case Un-locked, take a left turn and floor it. If any wheel is going to break traction, it will be the front left. So, with the DT installed in the rear of your Rover, you will not have these side effects commonly talked about with DT's.

[01001010]

I understand that some of the newer members to the board would like to share their knowledge about lockers, but the Search tool will take you to everything you need...

Air vs. Detroit Locking Diffs

ARB or Detroit? Which for performance

lockers

http://www.landroversonly.com/forums...-arb-locker-76

Yes, this subject has been beaten... by the same people too...lol

[jimfoo]

Here you go Einstein, straight from the owners manual.
When turning a corner, the sound of component disengagement and re-engagement may be audible, and the transfer of
driving torque from both wheels to one wheel may be noticeable.
When going from drive (acceleration) to coast (deceleration) in a turn, a "metallic" sound may be heard as torque flow is
reversed (inside wheel engaged during acceleration; outside wheel engaged during deceleration).
These characteristics are normal because of backlash designed into the NoSPIN differential, which is of a fixed amount (1 to
2 inches of rotation at the tire tread).
Backlash or slack between the driving and driven clutch teeth is an inherent part of the NoSPIN and necessary to permit
automatic operation when driving in forward and reverse. The total backlash in the driveline is increased by the amount of the
reduction between the ring gear and pinion. If the ring gear-pinion ratio is 5 to 1, the total backlash in the driveline with the
NoSPIN would be about 30°. This in turn is increased by clearances between planetary gear, sliding splines and the ring and
pinion gear. We feel that the total driveline slack can amount to as much as 1/4th turn of the driveline without being abnormal,
but if it exceeds 1/4 turn, other parts in the drivetrain could be checked. Further clarification of operational and performance
characteristics is available through Technical Bulletin No. 81 -1044. A copy is available by writing to our Marketing Dept.
Anything that improperly causes a difference in individual wheel speeds, such as mismatched tire diameters due to
differences in tire wear or tire pressure, or unbalanced loading of the vehicle (especially cargo vehicles, or vehicles operated
on a side slope) can cause the NoSPIN differential to deliver power to only one side of the vehicle and thus cause steering
problems.

When the vehicle turns a corner, or when one wheel
passes over an obstruction, the outside wheel, or the
wheel passing over the obstruction, must travel a
greater distance and therefore faster than the other
wheel. When this occurs, the NoSPIN differential
automatically allows for the necessary difference in
wheel speed.
During a turn (Fig. 1), the inside driven clutch remains
completely engaged with the spider and continues to
drive the vehicle. The outside driven clutch
automatically disengages(That means unlocked) from the spider, allowing
the outer wheel to turn freely in the turn. When the
vehicle completes the turn, the outside driven clutch
automatically reengages the spider, as both wheels
again travel at the same speed.

[1hank1]

Jim, you can cut and paste all day long. You will still not understand what you're looking at.

IF THERE IS POWER TO THE PINION, THE LOCKER IS LOCKED.

Go try it! It's that damn easy, lol. Trying to interpret the manual the way you see fit is not going to prove anything.

Hell, even you just posted "or when one wheel
passes over an obstruction, the outside wheel, or the
wheel passing over the obstruction, must travel a
greater distance and therefore faster than the other
wheel. When this occurs, the NoSPIN differential
automatically allows for the necessary difference in
wheel speed."
Hahaha, so that mean when you're rock crawling, or crossing a log, the DT un-locks????? Hahaha. ok.

Jim, you're a moron. You claim to have a DT. So, go test it. Report back.

......am I really going to have to get my camera out and shoot some video?

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Yes. Experience and a basic understand of how the DT works. You have neither.

You give yourself too much credit. You obviously don't even have a "Basic" understanding.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

If what you said were right, and if the locker un-locked every time it sensed drag on one tire, the thing would never be fully locked when climbing though obstacles. That is just not the case.

Like usual you have not listened. The wheel unlocks when has sufficient traction to drive faster than the other wheel. No one has said anything about drag on a wheel. And I completely agree with you. The way it is designed is that it will not lock if you are going over an obstacle if both wheels have traction. This is what makes them so hard on axles. That is, they keep on driving through one wheel unless there is poor traction resulting in one wheel spinning.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Want another test? I mean, since you have a DT installed in your own truck and all.......

Why would I have one in my vehicle. I want to be able to get home again when I go out. What I said is that I had one. It got put in the rubbish where it belongs.

You keep on talking about tests. Here is one for anyone that has one fitted. Pull out your axles and see how much they are twisted due to the Detroit only driving through one wheel. You are a lot better off looking at them now rather than have them break out on the trail.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Get you a big ratchet strap. Wrap the strap over one rear tire and snug it down tight. By stopping that tire , you are creating drag, right? Hit the gas. See if only one tire spins.

What is with this drag stuff again. Holding one wheel in position is going to lock the diff. The test to prove your point is to jack up one wheelwith the handbrake on. If you are right, you won't be able to spin the wheel in the air as it will be locked to the wheel on the ground. You know as well as I do that you will be able to spin the wheel in the air forward.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Want a lot easier test? Pull a rear axle. It will take you less than 3-minutes. Lock the t-case and see if the rear wheel with the axle installed drives. I 100% guarantee it will! Know why?

Of course it is going to drive. What are you attempting to say here? How does this prove your point.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

Pull your front drive shaft. Lock the t-case. Go for a ride and make a turn under acceleration. Better yet, start into the turn slow, so you can hear the DT ratchet, then stomp the gas. I 100% guarantee the DT locks up mid-turn. Know why?

Why do you have me disassembing my car. You are making statements that prove yourself wrong. You state that the thing won't unlock if your drive into a corner. You state that it will only unlock if you decelerate. Yet here you are saying to make a turn while driving and I will here the thing ratchet. Make up your mind!

Originally Posted by 1hank1

It's a really simple design. It really is. It's not hard to understand at all. Well, unless you're a moron it's not hard to understand.....

100% agree with this statement.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

In these Land Rovers with the Lt-230 t-case, when you make a turn, it's the front wheels driving - not the rear.

Now I know you are just attempting to have fun with me. Nobody could be that thick to actually believe that statement.

Originally Posted by 1hank1

So, with the DT installed in the rear of your Rover, you will not have these side effects commonly talked about with DT's.

Thanks for coming back to the forum, I have not had a good laugh like this for a long time. So what you are saying is that because the vehicle actually drives through the front wheels through a corner, that the Detroit will have no affect as it is in the rear and therefore not driving the car.::bawling :

[jimfoo]

I have tested it. As stated, I have had a Detroit for years in a Series Rover, no AWD. It UNLOCKS ON A TURN UNDER POWER, although not as much anymore since it broke when I snapped an axle and I welded and re-ground the teeth. It locks IF the wheel spin is OVER a certain amount, like doing a doughnut, one wheel spinning on ice, the other not, BUT is made to allow a difference in wheel speed in normal driving. If it wasn't, it would NEVER unlock. No matter how hard you try, you can't convince me you are smarter than the engineer who designed it. Maybe yours is broken if it doesn't unlock in a corner as they fail to being locked.
BTW, before the Detroit, I had a welded diff, so I know what a locked diff feels like on a corner.