Winch

[ME=DISCO]

What do you all think the best winch is. ive heard warn winches are good but i would loike another opinion.....From you the owners/operators of these beasts

[Disco]

There is a vast sea of opinion on this subject usually depending on what unit/type is already installed, as well as pros and cons for each system. As for myself, I use a Tirfor hand winch and I'm quite happy with it. I did win a Warn 10000 electric winch a few years ago and promply sold it, and I don't regret doing so. However, if I was to fit a winch, I would fit a PTO (power take off) winch. Just my choice I guess.

[Hank]

A PTO winch does you NO GOOD when the engine is stalled, nor does a Hydro. The Warn Ti series winches are very nice, as are the Superwinch units. I would not stray from the Warn, Superwinch, or Ramsey lines.....

[TerryS]

Gotta agree with Disco, the topic of winches brings out many opinions, which brand is better, PTO or Electric, Mechanical or hydraulic, wire rope vs synthetic, etc.

I have an iopinion too, wanna hear it? Good.

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING is more potent than a hydraulic winch (pump off transfer case or engine, hydromotor on the winch. You have nearly the effective horsepower of the engine at the winch, and speed is variable by throttle. Drawback, Pretty expensive installation what with pumps, valves, hoses and the winch.

Mechanical PTO, driven off the transfer case, or front pulley in older cases is also very powerfull, but in many winching situations, you will also want to be driving, slipping the clutch as you do so, and everytime you put the clutch in, in the case of the PTO driven winch, the winch also stops. In fact, the transfercase on a series Land Rover should be in neutral anyway. Mechanical winches also don't brake when disengaged. They may have a seperate brake, but it requires you to operate it. I love antiques, but don't know anyone wanting to install a mechanical winch today.

Electric winches all have over running brakes these days. stop the motor, and the load back theough the drumshaft engages an over running disc. Pretty foolproof. The argument that you kill your battery holds water, about a teacup full. Full load on the winch is the highest current drain, but it's usually for a brief time. If you're pulling yourself up a 100 foot, 45 degree incline, your going to need to give the motor a break part way up, aside from the fact you're burning about 200 -250 amps. Keeping the engine revs at 1500 or so and your charging back at 100 amps. Most mud situations and you'll only need a short pull to get unstuck, though maybe many times.

I have two winches on my 110. Both electric. I wish I had a hydraulic up front, as that does more retrieving than getting me out of the bog. The rear one is used more than enough, getting myself unstuck. I;m not lucky enough to have company when I'm stuck, as it usually isn't playtime, but work.
My front winch is a planetary Warn 9000. It's OK enough, but the rear winch is a Ransey worm gear drive rated at 12K, but if Moses still wants that mountain moved, it sure would give it hell. I'll take worm drive over planetary anyday, except they are heavier, and not as compact as planetry. As to whose you buy, they all make planetary, and I guess they all are pretty much the same. Ramsey is the only one I know of still making worm gear drive.
Here endeth the opinion.

[Disco Mike]

I run a Warn9500HSI and after 2 years I have no complaints and it has been used hard. I do also run 2 Red Top batterys to give my winch all the juice it wants and under a hard pull it wants alot.
I would buy another one if this one failed.
Mike J.

[130CC]

I have a warn 10000 and have had no complaints apart from the speed of the thing. I purchased the 10000 opposed to a 8000 high mount only for the fact that with the 130 loaded I would rather be slow than have to unpack the truck to get myself out of the crap I had gotten myself in to. I am looking at putting on a second winch this I have yet to decide but am swaying towords a putting a hydraulic on the frount and moving the 10000 to the rear, my reasoning is the same as TerryS I seem to do more recovery on other people from the frount and other people seem to recover me more from the rear, and I am tired of using a turfor when I am by myself. It hurts if you have to use it more than once a day. The only problem with hydraulic is cost but the big advantage of landy's is there is a pto spot on the transfer case so unlike other vehicles that share the power steering pump (not to quick) to do the work you have a seperate pump for this task it just once again adds to the cost. But like all thing 4x4 all the realy good stuff comes at a cost.
Adam

[TerryS]

I've been thinking about what you said regarding using a hydraulic up front and moving your electric to the rear.

I, too, like your idea of having one of each, but see if you follow my thinking. I'm wondering if you wouldn't want to run the electric on the front end, and Hydraulic on the rear. Here's my thoughts. When you're pulling yourself forward, it often is to get through a short, iffy spot, and you may want to have wheels in motion while doing so. It isn't as likely that you would be "driving" in reverse. Since the pump is off the PTO spot on the back of the transfer case, each time you push in the clutch, your pump will be disengaging, so the winch will be stopping. It's not like on a tractor with a live PTO.
Have you found any suitable PTO adapter/pump setups? I think I can trade into a new(ish) hydraulic winch, but there isn't a pump with it. If I did get hold of it, I'd love to fit my Ramsey worm drive up front. It has more balls and fater retrieve than the XD9000 Warn I have on the front now.

Just thinking. Dangerous, huh?

[Hank]

I really don't understand whats so great about a hydro winch....There slowwwww, wear on your PS pump, PITA to install, do not work if the engine dies or has to be shut off, more parts to fail, and and cost as much as a really nice electric winch.

What happens if you drop into a mud/water hole deeper than you thought? Deep enough that water can suck into your intake. What good is a PTO, or Hydro winch?

Or, if your truck dies in a place jumper cables barley wont reach?

Granted, your batteries are not going to last too long on a dead truck running a winch, but it will work longer than a winch with a pump....

Warn Ti

[Disco]

And a hand winch still works when all others have failed!

[TerryS]

[b]

Originally Posted by Hank

I really don't understand whats so great about a hydro winch....There slowwwww, wear on your PS pump, PITA to install, do not work if the engine dies or has to be shut off, more parts to fail, and and cost as much as a really nice electric winch.

Hank, Your experience with a Hydraulic winch must be very limited. A proper installation would never use the power steering pump. Not because of wear, because running a winch of the PS pump will add NO additional wear to the pump, but because the PS pump is not intended for high pressure at high flow, such as a Barnes pump, typically used. Additionally, speed is proportional to engine speed, but even at idle (40-50 horsepower, delivered to the winch) the speed will be significantly higher than a planetary electric winch. Even a worm gear electric is twice as fast.
Oh, and a good Hydraulic will cost quite a bit more than an electric, and not usually a price the average weekend warrior will accept. Though the hydraulic will outlast many electric winches, how many times does the average person get stuck? Hydraulics are generally used by professionals. Try assembling a 550' steel antenna tower with ANY electric winch.

What happens if you drop into a mud/water hole deeper than you thought? Deep enough that water can suck into your intake. What good is a PTO, or Hydro winch?
This is the most commonly used argument by the electric winch proponants, and the hydraulic winch won't help here, however, how long do you think the electric will work with the whole electrics underwater? and how long do you think the electric connections will last, after you're out of the hole, because they were energized while submerged? Basically, kiss the control box goodbye, you should have had someone else pull you out of a hole that deep.

Or, if your truck dies in a place jumper cables barley wont reach?
Does the electric work here?Granted, your batteries are not going to last too long on a dead truck running a winch, but it will work longer than a winch with a pump....

I have a Warn 9000 Ti on the front of my Defender 110, I never thought of it as 'cool', but it's ok for the limited use it sees. It's not half the winch the Ramsey 12K worm drive on the back of the 110 is, but, as Adam says, I'd ideally like one of each.Warn Ti

Hey Disco, I agree, the ComeAlong, or Tirfor, won't quit when the motor or battery does (even though I can count on one hand the number of times this has happened to me in more than 35 years off road) and they have their place. They do have a nasty habit of binding up at the worst possible moment, but should be part of the permanant recovery kit of anyone spending significant time offroad (one to a group of several vehicles is enough) I have seen several occassions where electric winchers have also bound the hell out of their drum, when all the cable ends up on one end. One guy managed to cram so much cable off to one side that he cracked the winch case. That said, would you and a bunch of you mates knowingly go into a situation where the likelyhood of getting stuck is great, with only a hand winch? Pulling youself up out of 30' gulley is pretty exhausting, and your arms will remind you for days afterward. How willing is the average guy to do that for somone else. It's basically everyman for himself when it gets down to the grunt work

[Disco]

Well said TerryS!

[Hank]

You make a good point, but I still don't think a Hydro winch on a daily driver/wheelin truck is a very good choice. If this is a "work horse" a hydro is the way to go. I don't think thats the case here....

And yes, I own a Hydro winch. I have it mounted to a reciver hitch mount, with hydro lines at the front and rear of my truck. 99% of the time, the winch sits in the garage at home. It's just a PITA.

[TerryS]

Aha!, I wonder what size lines and quick couplings you are using (or, more to the point, not using).If they are similar in size to that used on a snow plow, like a Fisher, they aren't big enough to permit sufficient flow, regardless of what pump you're using. You're the first I have heard of using a hydraulic winch as a detachable. The best installation should have a front pulley driven, live pump, reservoir, filter, and steel lines with good chassis supports, maybe a short section of hose (for flex) on the hydamotor end, and the lines need to be sized to support the motors GPM needs. Winches don't usually have highflow motors, but 8-10 GPM would be my guess for minimum. Quick disconnects for that kind of flow are going to be 1/2" FPT at the least, though I'm pretty sure they're 3/4" on my John Deere.
For receiver winches, I can't argue, that an electric, with a 200A Anderson connector is the way to go. They don't leak electricity everytime you disconnect them either. I have a set of jumper cables made up with welding cable, nice and flexible, 12' long, with an Anderson connector on one end, just plug it into the winch socket on the rear crossmember. Nobody asks to borrow them either.
Wanna sell that winch?

[Hank]

Not real sure on the line size, but I would guess 5/8's. It's the "install kit" avaliable from MileMarker....

The pump is a stock HUMMER power steering pump (or a 1984 Chevy pick-up PS pump..) I don't know the GPM.

[TerryS]

5/8" ? Is that ID? That's not a standard hose size but it's pretty big.

So it IS a PS pump. That would account for the slow retrieve rate. PS pumps aren't much more than 1.5-2 GPM and not anywhere near the pressure the hydramotor was meant to see. Do you get the Northern catalog? They have several in the 8-10 GPM, 1000psi range. If you're belt driving it, not the best way to transmit that much power, try using 2 A belts. A PS pump only uses one but thats mainly because it is only transmiting a power demand of a few HP