Looking to Buy 98-02 Range Rover

[dantefr]

Hello, I am looking to buy a 98 to 2002 Range Rover 4.6 HSE or 4.6 HSK. First off, what are the differences between these two? Also, when I look, what problems are prone to this model? I've heard bad things about Land Rovers but I love the way they drive, look, and feel. Any information on what to look for, what years to stay away from, common problems, and cost of ownership would be greatly appreciated! I currently have 2 W140 S-class Mercedes-Benzs so I know a thing or two about problems.... Anyway, I would either be purchasing the Land Rover to replace my 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee, or to have as another car. I look forward to your response!
Thank You in advance!

[dantefr]

Oh, also, what do you think a fair price to pay would be? Or at least a ball park range... thanks!

[Choqiees]

oh sweet...first of all..let us see some of those Benzes...


you're right about problems with LR, but if you can feel the love...then you should be an owner of an LR. first you need to ask for service records, for LRs...it's important. next, shop around to get the best deal, and if you get one..have someone from an indie LR shop to check it out for problems and such...I don't know about which year is preferable but less mileage is always a good sign..and get an extended warranty while you're at it.

P38 is such a nice rig...the common problem with them is leaking airbags...an easy fix, check this company out www.arnottsindustries.com they have a lifetime warranty for their airbags...some will say to change the airbags to coils...my opinion is the comfort of P38 with airbags is too much of a sacrifice if you convert them with coils.

good luck

[dantefr]

Thanks! Here are some pictures of my Benz's. The ones I have on my computer are too big to post (I don't know how to resize) so I took them from the Benz forum I am a member of. A member there resized them for me a while back. Hope you like them! I've owned the 93 since August of 2003 and the 99 Grand Edition since November of 2005. They are GREAT cars, but require a lot of time in the shop to keep them running correctly. As for Range Rover, would you recomend I take it to the dealer for inspection or an Indy mechanic. I really don't know any good Land Rover Indy mechanics in my area, only Benz ones. I live in Pittsburgh, PA.

[Choqiees]

I'd take yours S-class over new ones any day! very nice..

I'd recommend you to take it to an indie shop...some areas have good dealership around...but most will go to indie shop instead the stealer...some people from PA will chime in soon.

whichever route you go...make sure you have someone to check it out before you buy the rover...

[TerryS]

Tighten your search years, because you will find the pre 1999 1/2 to be potentially bank breaking maintainance trucks. That was the point when they went to Bosch engine and body electric management and many of the (VERY COSTLY) problems went away. My personal favorite is the 2002, and I am always looking on ebay and other places for the Holland & Holland edition.

You will notice a much more than linear jump in selling prices for the post 1999 1/2 models. In fact many pre Bosch P38s are being given away for less than good Classics.

As an aside, I just bought a W124 Diesel (wagon) My 110, out of jealousy, hasn't run right for a week.

[dantefr]

I came close to buying a 2001 4.6 HSK last year but for some reason or another, decided against it. It had 58,000 miles and they were asking $21,500. Not a bad price, but more than I was willing to spend at the time. What exactly is the Holland & Holland Edition? I've narrowed my search to 2001-2002. What year is better?

And, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HSE and HSK?

[llesra]

read this. it will tell you the about the different models.

http://www.rangerovers.net/modelspecs/2000.html

[georgia_rover]

I have 2 Land Rover products. I bought both new: a 2003 Disco II SE7, and a 2006 RR HSE. I have not had any problems with either vehicle: other than the usual software upgrades on the RR HSE and the yearly A/C recharge on the Disco.

If at all posible, I would not consider any RR HSE prior to 2006. The 2006 has a number of fixes and redesigned elements that make it somewhat more reliable than previous years.

However, having said that, if you do purchase a non-2006 RR, try for a 2002 or later and definately have a LR mechanic, or independent check it out for you AND get an extended warranty (if possible from LR though there are other sellers).

I must say that though these truck are notorius for problems, there are some (like mine) that have the normal problems that any European car has or any modern (very) complex machine has. Do let let there reputation discourage your decision to buy one. Just keep in mind the caveats above and use caution.

On the plus side, I have owned MBs, BMWs, and Porsches, and none of those give me the sense of satisfaction and pride that my Disco II or RR provide.

So, look and ask

Also, there are other sites that you might want to read up on RRs: www.rangerovers.net is one and another is www.discoweb.org/...there are many more of these sites.

In fact this site is one of the best and I have noticed that alot of the members here post on other sites.

Good Luck no matter what your decision is...and I hope to see you Rovering soon!

[dantefr]

Thanks for all your help guys!! My purchase will depend on whether I can find one in my area with under 70,000 miles, in good condition with records. My search has just begun, and if it's anything like purchasing my benz's, it's going to take a while... I spent 3 years searching before I bought my 500SEL and 2 before the Grand Edition!! I do look on ebay, but I try to keep my car purchases local so I can inspect. I'd like to thank everyone again for your help! I will be back periodically to check in. If anyone has any 92-99 S-Class questions, I'd be happy to help, or check out benzworld.org. anyway, I found another picture of my W140s...

[Choqiees]

I'd vote for a black on black P38!

[Funrover]

First off...Nice Benz!!!!!! You have my family's twin............ We have a 94 S420.......It has been a great car, currently it has 202,000 miles on it!!! Same color and everything...VERY NICE!!!!!!! Now about the P38 style Rover..... We have a 97...........4.6. The truck has been great, but here are problems we have had in the 102,000 miles....... AIR SUSPENSION.("Had" this problem a lot)...... But from what I understand Arnott industries has that problem fixed......, We have also had problems with the AC/heat........ The blendor motors went out!, passenger door handle mechanism, oil cooler line, fuel pump, Basic maint (of course)!!!

The pic is bad..But here is my 92 rrc, parents 97 RR 4.6, parents 94 S420, and my 65 Dodge D-100

[ish]

Hey Funrover......I love the Dodge Bubba Truck......what year is that, 66?

The thing about Land Rovers is about managing expectations....lol
That tells you how happy you will be with it.

I owned 2 Discos a 2000 and 2003 both fully loaded ACE trucks that I loved, but both had numerous re-occuring problems that pissed me off to no end!!!
I can take any type of mechanical failure, but to have the same engine leaks and AC condensate leaking onto my carpets just friggen kills me.

Also you must make the selections for your preferences, I intentionally went out of my way to buy a new 2005 Range Rover because I wanted the BMW engine instead of the Jag engine.
I have 22,000 miles on the truck and it has been bullet-proof, and I don't baby the beyotch either, it has been great off road, thru streams, and sooo many hours on the beach the guys at the dealership can't believe the places they find sand....lol
On the highway nothing is sweeter, NJ to MO in 15 hours avg trip speed of 73mph @ 21 mpg !!!!!! My regurlar trips back and forth from NJ to NC are a little less because of the roads with avgs of 68mph and 21.

By the time I had 22,000 miles on my Discos they each had more than 8 unscheduled service repairs.

[hermanpj]

Beautiful W140s. We also have one - '97 S420 with 97K miles in Smokesilver over a Palamino interior. Reputation for expensive repairs aside (these cars were designed for embassy duty and for the decidedly deep-pocketed), it is an awesome car. Ours has only had problems with the air-actuated trunk and door closing assist, which I have finally fixed. Also I second the opinion that I'd rather have a W140 than any later S class. These were the last of the great Mercedes Benzes. On the highway it is a peerless grand-touring car, and the fit, finish and quality of materials is superior to the S class that was recently replaced.

As to Range Rovers... My own preference is always to let someone else pay for depreciation, so I steered clear of the most recent generation of Range Rover. The prices are still very high on these - $35K to $45K for a '03 and '04's. If you want the '95 - '02 body style, I'd go for '00 to '02. '02's are still selling for $22k-$24k with low mileage at used car lots. '00s and '01's are selling at up to $22 across the country. You can save significantly if you buy from a private party, as you know. I bought a '00 4.6 HSE with 68K miles for $16k from a private seller. It needed about $1k in repairs and would have needed $2k in labor. All of which was part of my offer. If you get a quality inspection by a good mechanic, buy a good vehicle, and keep up the maintenance, your Range Rover will give you many miles of service. My 1991 Range Rover Classic has 195,000 miles on it and is running strong and looking fine.

I've included specific points below about buying a second generation Range Rover. Kind of a lot, but figured you could use all the input.

-General strategy about private party buying of a Range Rover: identify local area prospects through ebay, cars.com, online newspaper adds, etc. Do Carfax checks for title history and loss, damage, major repairs on each VIN. Pay the higher amount to run an unlimited number of checks, and check out every VIN you intend to see personallly so you don't waste time.
-Do KBB and/or NADA value on each car, at fair, good, and excellent condition levels. Range Rover sellers are in my experience a great group of people, and they love their Range Rovers dearly. That doesn't mean all those cars are truly in excellent condition. I researched 22 cars and actually looked at 12 of them. What I saw was mostly in good condition, with a couple poor to fair, and 1 car in excellent condition.
-Definition of Excellent: the 1 car I saw was an '02 with 24K miles, and its age was not apparent from the car's presentation - the tires were like new, the paint was completely cosmetically perfect with no scratches or dents, the leather appeared never to have been sat upon, the carpets never to have had a shoe touch them. It had a pefect service history, new airsprings, no fluid leaks, and 100% of equipment functioned perfectly. Had navigation package, wood steering wheel, wood center console armrest, wood shift knob, and wood e-brake handle. It was listed at $27K. High price for a clearly excellent car.
-Definition of Good: Major mechanical and electrical components are in perfect working order, with only very minor cosmetic blemishes. If something significant that is mechanical or electrical on the car isn't working, then it technically doesnt qualify for "Good" condition. The average used car needs the seller to make some repairs before its really in good condition. Range Rovers are no different.
-A Range Rover should ideally have 2 flip keys ($350 ea to replace!) and a valet key.
-An owners manual book, radio security code cards, service history - ideally service stamps in the maintenance book.
-Valid insurance for the car helps establish that they owned the car for some time and drove it, not just bought at auction to make a quick buck.
-Check exterior for dents. While some panels are steel, many of the Range Rover's birmabright alluminum panels are notoriously prone to denting.
-Places to check for rust and corrosion: lower tail gate, hood, doors, door sills, frame, exhaust system. On a 2000 or later car, odds are against really bad rust, but you can't be too careful, particularly in a state with a real winter season.
-Ask to see the space where the car is parked and look for leaks. Power stearing (supply tubing, resevoir, and PS box are most likely leak locations), valve cover gaskets, crank seal, around the sump, around the oil filter. Transmission and transmission oil cooler line. Transfer case. There could be oil weeping out of the differentials front and rear. Any one of these may leak slightly. Weeping would be a wet spot or residue on the component, maybe even you can see a drip hanging there, that is OK and normal business for a Range Rover above 60,000 miles. Can be solved by checking fluids weekly, making sure you are not having to top off too frequently. A lot of drips readily apparent, or steady dripping would obviously be different story.
-Oil or transmission fluid dirty or low, PS or Brake fluid low, dirty air filter, dirty pollen filters all may point to a generally neglectful owner.
-Check to see if the RR is leaning to any corner -> air suspension trouble; when you start it, does it come up to proper height and even stance? quickly? (it should) without hissing sounds? (there shouldnt be any). Check it at all three levels available when the car is standing still: access, normal, and extended. Then when dirving on highway, check that it lowers from normal to highway, and raises from highway to normal when you get back to 35 MPH speeds.
-Start it, give it a minute, and listen for rattling or ticking from the valve train - could be nothing, or could be something you could live with, or could be a big prob. If you are serious about this car, get that checked out.
-You should see ABS, TC, and Brake lights illuminate when the Rangie starts. Release the parking brake. TC (Traction Control) and Brake will stay on until the braking system is pressurized. If this takes more than a 30 seconds, brake system leak may require work in the future. It's common for a Range Rover in this age bracket to need some time to charge up brake system pressure. You can hear it pressurizing. If you hear the pump run to repressurize after every time you apply the brakes, thats bad sign. ABS light will go out when you start moving forward. If it does not go out after 20 feet or so, some brake repairs might be needed or at least a faulty ABS sensor needs to be replaced. This is one area where entire Land Rover line seems to have trouble. I had a Discovery II that required a fix to at least one ABS sensor per year.
-When driving, slow to 5mph or stationary, shift to neutral and cross over the H-gate into low range, then Shift into a forward drive gear. Should be able to move forward, stop, shift into reverse, back up, etc without issues. Many Range Rovers' low-ratio gears are never exercised so make sure they work.
-Walk around the Rangie when its running. Burnt sweet smell means cooling system leak. Burning oil probably means a gasket is leaking. Fuel smell with heavy exhaust smell or rotten eggs smells are exhast problems... all are things to get inspected before you purchase.
-Shut off completely and turn key to pre-start position, you should get major warning lights to display, e.g. check engine light, etc. If some warning light, especially check engine, will not illuminate, this may be a bad sign. Its a very sneaky, nasty way to make check engine lights go away to simply remove the offending bulb from the instrument pack. Sometimes a repair technician, especially if not a Rover shop, may not have the bulbs, and so may remove a bulb from a less critical system to replace a burned out bulb for a more critical warning lamp.
-Ditto for the SRS airbag system. Light should come on when the key is turned to pre-start, and should go out. If it stays on, you will probably get a message center message 'SRS Fault.' The car I bought had this fault and it was cleared by unplugging the battery for 15 mins, reconnecting it, and unplugging it again for 15 mins. Water intrusion - have heard this story twice associated w getting engine power-washed - can sometimes cause a momentary voltage irregularity leading to faults. Once displayed these require a trip to the dealer or someone with an actual Rovacom computer to clear. SRS and Airspring faults are examples of Land Rover electronic control module (BeCM) faults, not OBDII faults so you can't get them cleared at just any shop. The unplug/replug technique forces some system diagnostic cycles which can clear some codes. Then if the code comes right back, well you know you have a persistent problem. As long as the current owner has the Radio code, there is no harm in advising them to try technique in order to clear the fault conditions.
-If all lights illuminate and they all go out when the car is started, yea! If one of them won't illuminate, it needs to be fixed so you will know whether the system it monitors has a fault.
-Fading /partial illumination of the message center in the instrument pack is a common problem and is usually just bulbs need replacing. Much simpler to do on a Range Rover than a Mercedes W140.
-Make sure they have the radio code. If you start the car and the message center gives you several warnings for windows and sunroof needing to be set, ignore. These just mean the battery cable was disconnected or the battery ran out. But DO make sure the radio code works to re-enable the radio, and the radio and CD changer work. Make sure you get good clear sound from those harmon kardon speakers. Roverville radio in Texarkanna AR can repair virtually any radio problem if your seller is willing to reduce price.
-If on the HVAC control system you see a little open book symbol, the most common problem this symbol identifies is malfunctioning HVAC blend servos. The motors usually work fine, but unfortunately the teeth of the little plastic gears break off, and this results in the gear turning but not actually moving the flap its intended to open and close. If you turn on the air and you hear a series "klak" noises, you are hearing these gears slipping. Repairing requires the removal of the entire dashboard. Like if the evaporator on your W140goes out. You may want to pass on this one. Lastly check the fan speed wheel on the HVAC system. I saw 3 cases where on older cars the rheostat was bad and there seemed to be dead areas - like you could turn the wheel past 4-5 clicks and no fan speed change would occur. This requires a repair to the HVAC module. I believe Roverville Radio can do this, but again, the Seller needs to lower the price. A new HVAC control unit is pricey at Altantic British.
-If you hear leaves inside the HVAC system, the pollen filters are probably filthy. Especially if a car is parked outside routinely, and under a tree. Leaves fall through the vent under the windshield and clog the filters. When the owner or a repair man goes to check why the HVAC system is not blowing as much air as it used to, the act of pulling out the filter lets a lot of leaves slip by into the HVAC system where they will make annoying, loud noises. The leaves will usually eventually blow out in tiny pieces. The filters are cheap to replace.
-Check seat heaters - these may not be working due to cracking of the heating element which is a wire that runs through the seat cushion. A simple and apparently quite effective repair is posted at rangeroverremendies so this should not be a deal killer factor. You might want a little price reduction though... particularly since you live in PA.
-Check tires. Uneven wear around the inside and outside edges of the tires ("feathering") indicates a problem. Could be alignment, steering damper, shock absorbers, air spring, other suspension components, swivel pre-load, combinations of some or all of these factors. Requires expert Rover-skilled analysis to pinpoint problem and estimate the cost. 4 new Michellin Synchrones: $1k. 4 new OEM shocks: $379 assuming you do the labor. So if you see feathered tires, this could be a major area to focus on.
-Generally check things work. Cruise control. Sunroof. All the lighting and markers inside and out.
-Particularly I found side marker bulbs, footwell lighting, license plate bulbs, glovebox bulb were commonly needing replacement across the Rovers I looked at.
-Cubby box lid flips over to the cup holder side and flips back to the armrest side without problems? Glove box latches and holds the glovebox door tightly closed so it wont rattle?
-Door locks work on all four doors? Windows work? Tailgate upper and lower work? Rear window heating element and front windscreen heating elements work?
-Windshield wash and wipe at all speeds and headlight washers and wipers work?
Rear seats fold down and back up, latching properly? Rear seat armrest cupholder works (broken 50% of the time)? Ashtrays and lighters are there?
-Floor mats - rubber or carpet - are there and in good shape? The parcel deck cover (a $350 trim piece) is there and in good shape?
-Navigation, if equipped, has CD and works?
-Broken interior trim, missing trim pieces, a missing or bad spare tire, worn leather seating or armrests, sagging headliner, moldy odors, missing wheel center caps, etc. are all things that either you may be fine with, you may have to pay to have fixed, you may fix yourself, or you may want to replace... so make notes.
-Research parts costs online - they will normally be half of what your mechanic estimates. Consider what you will do yourself when factoring how much to take off of the purchase price.
-Some of the trim pieces are going to be dealer only parts. For instance a center console facia panel is a $300+ dealer only part.
-This last one I did not check, but I would if I could do over again: You might get pushback from owner if they just washed the car, but you should definitely do this if you smell moldy/wet smell in driver or passenger footwells. Spray water from a hose on the windshield and roof for a minute. Check for water in the driver and passenger footwells. Water should properly drain from sunroof and exit through tubes in the A pillar and C pillar on each side. Water should not be dripping into the footwells or soaking the footwell carpeting from underneath. If it is, the sunroof drains may be clogged, the drain tubes may be missing, the windshield gasket may have a crack, or pollen filter covers may need to be sealed. I'm still trying to figure this out on my 2000 4.6 HSE.

Thats everything I can think about - everything I checked on the cars I was interested in buying, and 1 thing I wish I had checked. Let me know if you have any questions.

[TAZ]

Have nothing to add to Herman, one of the best "user check list" I had read for sometime...

P.S: Even though everything may seem more than perfect, when you own a Land Rover, always expect "anything can happen any minute", its not like those W140 s which may be expensive to maintain but they are more than reliable compared to what you are planning to purchase.

Besides P38 s, according to Forbes a research for the year 2006 showed that Land Rover is the "least reliable luxery vehicle" on the list.

http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/200...1reliable.html

Just so you know what you are getting into; "a new dimension, a new era of engineering mystery"

Take Care