Thinking of switching to a RR from a 99 TJ (Jeep Wrangler)

[loudog3114]

I drove a 98 Range Rover the other day, looking for a car for my girlfriend. But I have to say I was actually really impressed at the rovers off road prowess. Locking diffs, full manual low range control, and the coolest thing I have to admit was being able to raise and lower the suspension with a button.

I am now seriously considering trading in the jeep for one. Just a few questions...

With stock suspension, what tire size can you go up to with minimal rubbing? The reason I ask is because I just got 31x10.5x15 bfg's for the jeep and id like to swap em over. Id like to have minimum 31's on it, if it cant be done stock what lift do I need?

Which brings up another question... what size rim is on the range rover? if its not 15", what bolt pattern is used so I could possibly swap my 15's now so I could use the bfg's.

When you get a lift, can you still use the button in the cockpit to raise the suspension further or does it get canceled out by the lift and mad eonly able to go lower?

How do the lockers on the diffs work, only in low gear? under 10mph?

Rock crawling and articulation, how does this thing stack up?

What type of suspension does it have, coils?

What is the best site for off road upgrades, like quadratec.com for landrovers?

The 4.0 that I drove seemed to have engine problems, I took it on the highway and top speed was about 65mph... Im not holding that against it because im assuming it has problems. But how does the 4.0 normally do on the highway, im a fast driver, usually around 80-90, and id like it to have power even at that speed. If its not enough, then how is the 4.6?

As far as realiability, the only ones in my price range have 100k+ miles on them, how long do these things last? Is there any specific model year I should avoid?

I think thats it, feel free to add anything that I should know about going from a wrangler.

[SCSL]

I don't know much about Rangies but I'm sure you'll get answers to all your questions from some Rangie drivers on the forum. I just wanted to say GO FOR IT -- it's always great to add a Jeep convert to Roverdom !

[lonestarrover]

Many of your questions can ansewered at this site:

http://www.rangerovers.net/

As for the 4.0 having enough power, I have a 97 4.0 that will reach over 100MPH. no problem. You must have of drove a dud.

Good luck.

[yieldsign2]

Originally Posted by loudog3114

I drove a 98 Range Rover the other day, looking for a car for my girlfriend. But I have to say I was actually really impressed at the rovers off road prowess. Locking diffs, full manual low range control, and the coolest thing I have to admit was being able to raise and lower the suspension with a button.

I am now seriously considering trading in the jeep for one. Just a few questions...

With stock suspension, what tire size can you go up to with minimal rubbing? The reason I ask is because I just got 31x10.5x15 bfg's for the jeep and id like to swap em over. Id like to have minimum 31's on it, if it cant be done stock what lift do I need?

Which brings up another question... what size rim is on the range rover? if its not 15", what bolt pattern is used so I could possibly swap my 15's now so I could use the bfg's.

When you get a lift, can you still use the button in the cockpit to raise the suspension further or does it get canceled out by the lift and mad eonly able to go lower?

How do the lockers on the diffs work, only in low gear? under 10mph?

Rock crawling and articulation, how does this thing stack up?

What type of suspension does it have, coils?

What is the best site for off road upgrades, like quadratec.com for landrovers?

The 4.0 that I drove seemed to have engine problems, I took it on the highway and top speed was about 65mph... Im not holding that against it because im assuming it has problems. But how does the 4.0 normally do on the highway, im a fast driver, usually around 80-90, and id like it to have power even at that speed. If its not enough, then how is the 4.6?

As far as realiability, the only ones in my price range have 100k+ miles on them, how long do these things last? Is there any specific model year I should avoid?

I think thats it, feel free to add anything that I should know about going from a wrangler.

First of all, 31's will likely rub when you lower the suspension, but you would have to try it.

Second of all, if you lift the truck by using body spacers, you can still raise and lwoer the suspension. If you get a lift which involves longer/stiffer springs, you will lose your air bags and have a coil suspension, no longer using the button.

Yes, all range rovers are coil sprung or air bag suspension (edited, it was late when typing this), at least all US (87+) rovers. (just another reason why they are better than alot of jeeps! - no leafs!) just playing!

I don't believe any rovers had 15" inch rims stock, and they wont have the same lug pattern, sorry.

Articulation? Hehe, that's the range's (and all landy's) thing!
Just for example...
Vehicle Articulation (front + rear)
2003 Range Rover Mk III (Independent, air) 24 inches + tire comp
1994 Range Rover County (air) 23 inches
1992 Range Rover County (coils) 22 inches
1995 Range Rover 4.0SE (air, swaybar disconnected) 24 inches
1995 Range Rover 4.0SE (air, stock) 22 inches
1993 Range Rover County LWB (air) 21 inches
1995 Land Rover Discovery 20 inches
Land Rover Defender (coils -- US spec) 19 inches
1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee 15 inches
Jeep Wrangler YJ 12 inches

(hint hint, notice the jeeps? )
That makes them excell at rock climbing, they also have a fairly low center of gravity, to help prevent rolls.


Oh, and of course, DO MAKE THE SWITCH! Parts will just be a lot more of a wallet buster.

[CoachDitka]

There are a few interesting and wrong points made in a few posts here.

First, NO 4.0 or 4.6 p38a is coil sprung in stock form. They are ALL use airbags for springs. That is how they raise and lower. If you wished to convert to coils, you would lose the ability to raise and lower the car at will. The 4.0 models usually come with 16" wheels, while the 4.6 comes with 18". If you wished to lift the car for more clearance, you CAN use a dealers computer to change the airspring values resulting in a higher ride at normal driving settings. There have been a variety of things done to alter the stock air suspension, with lots of good readings on www.rangerovers.net. If you used body spacers to lift the car without reprogramming the air suspension values, you could run into some serious problems such are the cones that the airspring mounts on clashing at lower settings.

While the 4.0 you drove was obviously a dud (the first 4.6 I drove also was a dud, and almost put me off buying one), you should definitely opt for the 4.6. It has more power, has been shown to be a bit more reliable, and comes with a heavier-duty transmission. You want to get a 99 or newer, as they use Bosch engine management instead of Lucas, a big improvement. I am also not sure of the other changes made in '99, but I believe my '97 uses a viscous coupling and not difflocks. Without checking, I believe that is the same throughout this model's years.

Just FYI, I replaced my Wagoneer with the Range Rover, and have been impressed in some areas, while not in others, such as highway manners that I have yet to correct, although I am working on it as I get time. Under 65mph it beats the Wagoneer handily, but it jumps around a LOT when I go a bit faster and the road is not perfectly smooth.

-Coach

[loudog3114]

I really like the air suspension and the idea of being able to raise/lower it at will... mainly because the truck will be my daily driver so being able to switch back and forth from the lift is awsome. Im curious, if I get the factory to reprogram the height in "lifted" mode, how much higher can I go from the standard position? And am I right in saying I can make the max higher while keeping the normal and highway heights the same?

[SCSL]

No the max is the max, but you can adjust 'normal' height to be higher than normal. One thing I did not hear mentioned is the reliability of the air suspension. RR air suspension is notorious,,,and many after-market kits are available for conversion to springs. I'm not dogging Rangies,,,just want you to get the whole scoop.

[cellulararrest]

Every Since the 1993 LWB model, the range rover has been equipped with the EAS sytem stock.

I've heard some horror stories about EAS, but also many stories that make it sound great. Personally, if I get a newer rangie (95 LWB), I'm keeping the air suspension. I've heard many times over, that if you take care of it, it'll last you as long as you'd like it to. Once, you fit a MARS system, you're set. The advantages far outweigh the disadvantages if you ask me.

[loudog3114]

Any reason I shouldnt get a Country?

[cellulararrest]

County? I assume you just mean the classic body style. If you're into the look I'd say absolutely go for it! Amazing vehicles. Far more capable off-road than any P38a (not that they're bad) and great on-road performance as well (for a land rover). I personally love them to death. Classic for life!

[CoachDitka]

My original target was a late-model Country LWB. They are very roomy, comfortable, and nice looking cars. I went and drove a couple, and was impressed. The third car I drove was a P38a, and 5 months later that is what I bought. Why did I buy a p38a instead of a Country LWB? Well, my first impression of the classic was that it was underpowered, especially the LWB model. I think the only thing I prefered in the classic models was the smoother ride. The p38a has a slightly harsher ride, but all the other improvements more than make up for it, and I am hoping to smooth the ride out when Arnott finishes their 3rd genereation airsprings.

Anywho, I suggest you drive at least 2 or 3 of each model and see what you think then.

-Coach

[loudog3114]

I think im leaning towards the p38... its a 4.0se that im looking at... but it has 100k on it, is that a bad thing or should I not worry? anyone know where I can find some cheap 15 inch rims, perhaps black steelies? I want to use my 31" bfg's.

Im just curious, the LWB is MORE capable then the normal one? I would have thought it would be the other way around.

[skippy3k]

I don't want to start a P38 vs Classic flamewar, since I love both vehicles. However, I would be interested in hearing as to why the cellulararrest believes a Classic is more off-road worthy than a P38. I will be the first to admit that the Classic has more aftermarket parts available, and if I remember correctly the approach and departure angles favor the Classic by an inch or so. But other than that, I wouldn't say one is more "capable" than the other. Classics are used more often as off-road, but I believe it's because they cost less than P38's because they are generally older vehicles.

In terms of off-road worthiness, both vehicles are made by Land Rover, so therefore both vehicles are superb off-road machines. P38's might cost a bit more to maintain, however, but those costs are dropping as time goes on.

As to steelies, there was a big thread on rangerovers.net (which I think you have posted there as well) concerning steelies for P38's. 15" might be possible, but I've never seen it. Rangies use 16" rims, with either 7" or 8" widths. (Before someone corrects me, some models of P38's came with 18" wheels....but I think that was the 4.6 HSE model.)

--Scott

[yieldsign2]

American racing for 15" rims, at least for classics I don't know, do p38's have larger rotor/caliper setup that wont fit in 15" rims?

[CoachDitka]

Originally Posted by loudog3114

I think im leaning towards the p38... its a 4.0se that im looking at... but it has 100k on it, is that a bad thing or should I not worry?

Things to take close looks at as they would normally be failing or have failed by that point:

-EAS system, mainly pump and airbags. Raise and lower the car a bunch to drain the air tank, see how long it takes the pump to refill it, and see how loud the pump is. Is it very audible from inside the car? Inspect the bags for cracking at the various lift points.

-ABS accumulator/pump. With the car off, press the brake pedal 25 times or so to discharge the accumulator. Turn ignition on, see how long it takes for the ABS pump to charge system and shut off. Once it is charged, how many times can you press the brake pedal before the pump turns on again? While doing this, do the ABS/Traction lights come on?

To me, these seem to be the most common things needs service around that mileage, and seem to be the things people have the most problems with.

I still think you should really opt for a 4.6!

-Coach