ABS and traction control light came on!

[nettechy]

And I thought I was the only one with this problem, boy did Land Rover screw up or what with the ABS Modulators? I've been given all of the excuses any land rover dealership can give you and they came to one conclusion the ABS Modulator has to be replaced, it's not your OEM Brake Pads and Roters, it's not your NON-OEM Brake Pads & Roters, it's not your braking hard or soft, it's not your brake fluid. This is what the Service Advisor told me verbatim. "Unfortunately you 4 wheel more than anyone I know that puts a pressure on the ABS Modulator" I've been having this problem for a few months now, and guess what I can't go offroading, I'm not a happy camper now.

[Disco Mike]

I disagree with your service writer.
Rovers have been known for years to throw ABD, T/C and or ABS lights because of:
Dirty fluid, aftermarket rotors and or pads, over heat the brakes, vibrations shaking the wheel sensors out of adjustment, dirt or mud and many more reasons.
The only way to tell for sure is to have some hook up a Text Book to your truck and read the brake codes.
Good luck,
Mike J.

[bruinlad]

I somehow don't get it. To wheel or not to wheel. OEM or Aftermarket. You can name all the reasons your service person gave you, but IMHO the whole system (at least on the Disco II) is inferior if it's been known to throw error codes like these. C'mon we all love our Rovers, but when LR gives us all this BS about this and that causes the sensor to send an error, what's next don't wheel during a full moon. No offense to anyone who believes what causes this issue because that's the information being disseminated by LR dealerships. But don't you think enough is enough. I've seen so many posts in different forums about the dreaded trio of lights and quite frankly, I don't think they know what the causes are but are quick to pass the blame on the consumer. I say this is ridiculuous.

Let me tell you what a non functioning TC does based on my recent experience. Mind you I have a stock '00 Disco w/o lockers or CDL and a good set of mudders (not that it mattered). Last weekend we went to Anza Borrego to campout but we had to ascend this three level rock garden at like an almost 45 deg angle. I believe the trail is rated somewhere between 4-6. Everyone makes it through, I made it through the first level, then the lights came on during the middle of the second level. What happens next is a nightmare. I tried to keep my momentum but somehow I get stuck when one wheel loses traction. All the power is transferred to that one wheel and the rest are stationary. Needless to say whenever this happens I had to be strapped or winched up to complete the trail. You might say that's the way traction control works. correct me if I'm wrong, but somehow I was under the impression that TC was suppose to transfer "most" of the power to the slipping wheel but somehow I don't recall that the other three will meanwhile remain stationary. Anyhow, enough about my experience.

Nettechy and I here belong to the same rover club and were thinking of starting a petition to stir things up at LRNA. So far my research takes me back to two recall campaigns related to this issue that you can find on the NHTSA site. Check it out you've got nothing to lose and everything to gain. The two recall campaign related to this issue are campaign numbers 02V022000 and 04V005000. Enter them one at a time and see the details for yourself. Had to put in my $0.02

NHTSA

[nettechy]

Mike J. you are entitled to your opinion. I have a 2003 Disco S, I have 54000 miles on my Rig and it's always been serviced at the dealership, I have OEM parts, I did everything Land Rover Service Department asked me. I've talked to a lot of Land Rover owners and Land Rover Mechanics they all tell me the same thing ABS Mod has to be replaced, it's a faulty system designed by WABCO, LRNA didn't count on so many people to go offroading with their Disco's they targeted their advertising to Soccer Moms and guess what more and more people are offroading and more and more people are experiencing the ABS christmass light. I'm fraustrated, I don't like to be taken for a fool, I've spent a lot of money on my Rover and I want it to perform like a Land Rover.

[Disco Mike]

Nettechy,
I also belong to SCLR and other then a bout of medical problems I have been having over the last year, I have gone on trails that most of the club members won't. Yes, I have all the toys, gears, lockers CDL, HD axles and all the other bells and whistles. I have thrown the lights 3 times in 3 years.
I have now set my truck up so I can shut off the ABS when not wanted, and the truck can't be stopped.
Unfortunately all the quote SUV's with a traction control, which included nealry all of them, works off the ABS, and like most they are too sensitive to hard, prolonged wheel slippage.
It's the nature of the beast and yes we would be better without it.
By the way, I have been a service writer and or manager for nealry 20 years and have alot of experienced this problem with most of the manufactures.
Mike J.

[bruinlad]

Glad to have bumped into you Mike. I understand it's the nature of the beast, but what are the remedies that you can recommend other than using OEM parts and regular replacement of brake fluids. I mean we can't just follow LR's recommendations only to return over and over to have it diagnosed or resetted or even replaced. Where does it end, meanwhile it's at the very least $99 to start with to have it diagnosed.

Also when you say you did a setup where you can disable the ABS when not wanted. Are you referring to disabling it in motion w/ CDL not engaged right? The reason I asked is coz I was under the impression that if you lock the differential with the engine off, then the TC/ABS is automatically disabled. Whereas if you lock it in motion, the TC/ABS will still be functional. Thanks.

[FlyWheel]

...I flushed my brake fluid threw in some expensive dot3/dot4 ABS German certified stuff. I checked all the ground wired as was instructed.....nada.
"christmas tree" still lit. The stealership said I was not welome prior to Dec 7th!
Hellofalongtime to wait for an appointment!!!!!!
These guys have too much work. I will try to find someone with a note book code reader in the mean time.

NOW: Will I damage anything if I run it with the lights on for a couple hundred miles?

Thanks
Collin

[FlyWheel]

Sorry...I was a little bit peeved and forgot my manners.
Thank you gentlemen for the assistance you provided. I will keep monitering the thread.
Cheers.

[Disco Mike]

You know it is hard to not get peeved over this.
By the way, I have been driving my truck for the last 6 months with the lights on, ABS,Hill Decent and T/C are working perfectly.My lights came on when I was playing too hard at Pismo. At some point when I have to take in the truck, I will probably get them reset.

Briunlad,
Yes you are correct. On my 99 when I set up the CDL I used a solonoid combination from Austrialia and all I have to do if flip a switch, either before or after starting the engine.
Mike J.

[TsiArt]

I have a Laptop , ANd what are you guys are talking about Notebox code reader . What softwere is that I need and where do i get info on how to make the cable or where to buy it ?

Thanks .



OH BTW . I had the same problem with those tree lights coming on etc.. well from looking at all this brake dust build up on my pasanger front wheel , i figured that it was that . Dealer confirmed it , and I got that $80 sencor and replaced it . Also for me was about 1 houer or more to get that wheel off . it was so coroded onto the hub . But Yeah I replaced mine and I have no more pedal kicking me or what ever the truck was doing .

[Rovin4life]

The info is really expensive unless you get someone from LR to get you the discs.

but you need a special wiring harness that fits the DLC connector. Usuallly only certain labtops are capable of doing it.


ABS is always different, you can get code readers for engine but not for ABS, its not cheap.

Any ABS adaptions for aftermarket readers run at least five hundred or more.

Flywheel sorry about the date of your appointment. The dealer is obviously overworked. We were balls to the wall busy last two days. We are a week out. They must short on techs as well.

If all you want is a diagnosis call them back and ask if you can get it looked at while you wait.

If its too big like say a module or something else then a sensor they can have you come back for later.

[TsiArt]

Originally Posted by beezel

The info is really expensive unless you get someone from LR to get you the discs.

but you need a special wiring harness that fits the DLC connector. Usuallly only certain labtops are capable of doing it.


ABS is always different, you can get code readers for engine but not for ABS, its not cheap.

Any ABS adaptions for aftermarket readers run at least five hundred or more.

.

Oh I see .

I figured that since People that Own LRs are better off then the guys that Own DSM's and LR people are more ejumuckated then DSM kid's . So The LR crew would have made something for them not to spend an arm and a leg for Diagnostil tools .

But DSM cumunity had Pocket Loger ( runs on Palm Pilot devices ( anything that has serial port and Palm OS ) ) . DSM loger ( runs on Laptops with serial port ) . And there is this product for tunning and it's called DSM link ( and that requeres you to Get ( if you don't have one ) E-Prom ECU and Order a DSM link E-prom with cable and softwere . And then you can tune your car with out having anything except that chip . It's cool , cause you can say that the car is stock , but no one knows that you have 350hps at the all four wheels .


SO I figured that there is something available for LR's , and when I read it here it being mentoined. So I had to ask .

[Rovin4life]

See the thing is the tuners are for one thing, Engine. Thats all. They wont help you out with ABS and airbags. They dont diagnose anything. They just change something and allow you to change back for emmisions standards.

And diagnosis machines are really best used by technicians and mechanics. reason being is the cost of the products and upgrades and the knowledge of the systems.

Your better off getting the codes from autozone and diaging yourself sometimes.

Its not worth the expensive of a part plus the five hundred dollars for the reader just to look at once maybe twice.

[TsiArt]

I forgot to mention that the Poket Loger is just a loging device . You can read all the sencros , Fuel trim , timing , knock etc... even if the AC relay is on or not . Basicly all the functions of the ECU . thrue the Diag port.

DSM Loger is the same thing as the Pocket Loger , but on actuall PC .

And I thrue in that DSM link for staing the fact that you can do that too if you want to .



Now about the $500 . That's why I asked if I can get information on how to make that cable , Cause posibly it's just TTL chip inthere that converts to RS-232 .
Also that softwere for DSM loger is avalible for download anywhere for free .

So for about $10 you can log your car , check the codes that are stored in the ecu and erace them .

Now I don't know mutch about LR electrinics , but from dealing with the key's I geting an idea that it's a PITA to make something to work with the truck . Oh and Mitsu uses their own Diag. PC tools , But DSM guys wrote the code them self from reverce enginering the serial comunication for the ECU .

I don't have time and experties to do it my self . Cause If I would have time I would love to learn how to do it , and do the PC Loger and make that tuner chip .

[Rovin4life]

TSiart I dont know what kind of cable you would need and to be honest I wouldnt trust one that is hand made. But for your information In order to diagnose LR electronics We have a T4 notebook as we call it. its a basic labtop with LR hardware installed. Then when we want to look at the various LR we need different info Cds and different cable ends.

For basic engine and ABS and other functions on Discos, Defenders, to 2004 we use a blue connector, earlier models before 1997 require a green connector for SRS lites.

For RR up to 2002 we need a regular blue connector for everything and a black connector with a push button for EAS.

For RR from 2002 to 2005 we need a red connector. its bmw motor and electronics.

On Freelanders from 2001 on to 2005 we use the same blue connector as RR and Discos but we use a grey connector for ABS.

And then theres the new stuff the LR3, RR and RRS. They all use WDS, its from Jaguar/Ford new connector and basically a new system that is completely separate from T4

We get updates for all our systems every month and have to upload them as well.


Its not cheap and its really complicated at times. if you really want to learn how LR does there electronics learn how OBD2 works and what the codes mean and you will be able glean more information on the system. Some of the info we tell you on code alot of times comes with experience. a lean codes with a fourth gear monitoring code tells you that the MAF is bad.