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Old 01-01-2013, 06:46 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 94svt50 View Post
Seriously it has nothing to do with getting a white ribbon for participation but if you dont like something then thats fine, dont put a tube bumper on your rover. This guy likes the look so, the point of the forums would be to offer advice on ways to improve form or function, not trash the looks.
Ok, here'e the advice and I would say the same to his face...It looks like shit, the welds are poor, the recovery points are going to deform when pulled on...sell the welder, grinder and torch and buy a bumper that won't kill who's ever on the other end of the attempted recovery.
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Old 01-01-2013, 07:17 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Ok, here'e the advice and I would say the same to his face...It looks like shit, the welds are poor, the recovery points are going to deform when pulled on...sell the welder, grinder and torch and buy a bumper that won't kill who's ever on the other end of the attempted recovery.
And your advice is worthless. If you would take the time to read the posts instead of reposting what you already said, then you would realize that I stated that selling my equipment is not a solution to purchase a bumper. And beauty was not a factor for me. It was built on budget, project for me, and for rigidness. The recovery points have the same concept as ARB and look the same. I already stated and corrected that the welds are solid underneath the extra slag from the bigger stick I used. And it was pointless to say it would kill someone during a recovery. Any type of recovery can be dangerous if you do not read on how to use your equipment properly. And based on how you read this topic I wouldn't want you to be using your recovery gear on me because I doubt you read those instructions clearly as well



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Old 01-01-2013, 07:53 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Yes the recovery eye is a similar design but from the looks of it at least 5/8" thinner material. On top of that if what I'm seeing is correct it is attached to a 3/8" piece that is "welded" on both ends to 3/8". Add to that a whole that is drilled about a 1/2" from the edge and you have a huge fail point with the shock loading of a recovery operation. That will likely rip free and go through a rear window or windshield on the truck trying to get you out. Talk to your "structural engineer" about shock loads.

If your really unlucky that "ARB like mount" will kill the poor guy that tried to pull you out.

If you like the looks great, it's your Disco. Look at the design objectively and think about the loads involved.
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:57 PM   #34 (permalink)
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DIY Projects-imageuploadedbyag-free1357102094.855224.jpg
That is a good point. I thought about it and looked at my Reese hitch which has been used as my recovery point a few times. I looked at the metal size and the hole placement on its setup. It has about the same setup as mine. The holes are about a 1/2 inch away from the edge and the metal on the hitch is actually smaller than 3/8. These are welded on each side of the receiver as well.


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Old 01-01-2013, 09:35 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Whoa whoa, explain how you've used that hitch for recovery?

It sounds like you've used the safety chain holes (NOT recovery points) . Are you using one of these as well?

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Old 01-01-2013, 09:35 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Those are for safety chains they aren't meant for recovery points either that is why they make a shackle set up to go in the receiver. Looking at the picture you can see the steel is deformed as well.

Some people can't listen.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:44 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I know what their purpose is. They are used to keep your trailer attached incase the hitch mount breaks/fails. Therefore they are designed to hold a load weight. As for the metal being deformed I noticed that too when I first bought it. I can't speak for what happened to them before I bought the LR and neither can you.

I have used both tow straps and chains on different occasions to get pulled out. They hold up great.

Some people can't listen? I have listened to everything being said and have approached each post with an open mind (non biased) and I have just given facts about where I got my ideas and/or research from. Therefore if you do not want to listen to another opinion or only want to talk about how you are right then you shouldnt have commented in the first place because it is pointless to argue with someone that "knows all".

This is what yall have come up with so far:
1. Looks like crap
A. I said I didnt build for a beauty pageant in my first post on my bumper.
2. Sell your equipment (torch/grinder/welder)
A. That was about the dumbest solution to this whole post.
3. Welds look bad
A. I stated that the welds underneath are solid and the bigger stick is the cause of the extra slag you see on top.
4. Recovery points are horrible/structure of the recovery is not good
A. ARB has the same design and concept and a structural engineer which went to school to learn about these types of structures said it was solid.
5. Wrong purpose for the Reese hitch safety holes
A. I know that is not its primary function but my point was that the design and the metal both kept the weight of the LR just fine with no problem and it is thinner than what I have on the front bumper.

If you want to talk about people not listening then you can direct that to them. I have only given reasons and answers to yalls complaints/concerns.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:13 AM   #38 (permalink)
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The bumper and recovery points are poorly constructed. All those pits in the welds are going to hold water and cause rust. Which will weaken the bumper in months, not years.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:35 AM   #39 (permalink)
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The recovery points on the arb are one piece of plate which pass through the bumper and bolt all the way into the frame. I think the point being made is yours weld onto the bumper which will not hold up when pulled. Take two pieces of plate and bolt them to the frame, let them hang out further than the bumper, then put holes in that. Most recovery points are something like that. Most people cut holes in the bumper pipe or plate, and slide it onto these recovery frame mounts, then weld it up. Your way will break. A winch will destroy that bumper. Just re-work some of it. Use the criticism to build on your fab skills. It looks all stuck together and relatively square...just dont be happy with half ass. It can hurt people in the woods.

I planned on building one too just havent got around to it. I think anythings better than 1k$ price for 100$ worth of steel.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:58 AM   #40 (permalink)
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And as for the rigidness of the bumper I had a structural engineer helping me with the bumper and he even confirmed that it is sturdy so I will take his credible degree as enough proof.
You may want to have your "structural engineer" familiarize himself with your state laws before offering any more advice

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Old 01-02-2013, 11:30 AM   #41 (permalink)
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I'll try not to be aggressive, so please don't get defensive. My following comments are all constructive criticism.

1. The look is a matter of personal taste. If you like it, I like it. No argument from me.

2. Those welds are NOT good welds. I am a civil engineer who graduated UFlorida in 2011 and I currently work as an engineering consultant in the petrochemical industry (so I kinda know what I'm talking about). If one of our fabrication facilities released equipment with welds like that, I would refuse the shipment and strike them from our vendor list. And rightly so - they're unsafe. Those welds are probably only slightly stronger than standard tack welds and they certainly haven't fused the pieces together. If we had a chance to xray the welds I guarantee my theory would be confirmed. Likely what has happened is that you either used the wrong electrodes or your welder doesn't have enough juice to properly heat up the material - your technique also needs work. I appreciate that welding is difficult and that you are a beginner, but you probably would be better off practicing on some scrap first or at least reading a book about welding techniques before making finished pieces.

3. As a result of the weak welds, the structural rigidity is compromised. I would personally not count on either the frame mounts or the recovery points to not fail under winching load. The locations are good but the metal is too thin and the welds too weak. The best case scenario you could hope for is that the mounts deform somewhat under load, but I'm certain that by the second or third recovery the mounts will break loose and send a winch cable whipping through somebody's windshield. Not to mention there is absolutely no way to know how this bumper would respond in the event of an accident - you're airbags might not even deploy. Is saving a few hundred bucks really worth your well being?

I know you're proud of your work and you'll take anything we say very personally, but my advice really is in your best interest. Take the bumper off and put it up on the wall of your workshop as a "my first job" decoration, then research welding techniques and D2 bumpers until you find something that you can copy. After you've welded about 200 yards of bead on practice material you can take another crack at the bumper.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:31 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Ok, I'm going to try to be real nice here in hope that something will sink in.

I get that you're new to welding, great. Practice your welded on some scrap metal or something where structural integrity is less important. And definitely practice on something that won't become a lethal projectile when the weld fails.

Your recovery point is NOT like ARB's. The metal is thinner and the shackle hole isn't even round. Also, ARB recovery points are considered to be just about the worst on the market, so you're not exactly aiming high.

Please stop referring to your bumper as a "tube bumper". It's not. It's a giant stick of pipe you welded(poorly) to the frame. Yes, I think it looks like garbage and it gives real tube bumpers a bad name.

Hopefully you wheel with people smarter than you or someone is likely to wind up dead when your bumper fails.

Well, I tried to be nice. A for effort?
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:06 PM   #43 (permalink)
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And stop using things outside their intended use. A tow strap is used for towing not for recovery.

Get shackle receiver for your hitch and use that with a recovery strap. That $130 will be cheaper than a medivac bill when that shit fails and hits one of y'all out in the woods
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:26 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Disco Biscuit thanks for the insight. I will look into how to tap it into the bumper a better way. As for the recovery points I will probably bolt the factory recovery point on until I come up with a better solution to yalls point.

Bosnian also thanks for the detailed explanation. I can appreciate corrective critisicism coming from a credible source than just everyone repeating the same phrase over and over. I am going to keep practicing and we will see what we come up with in the future.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:55 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Disco Biscuit thanks for the insight. I will look into how to tap it into the bumper a better way. As for the recovery points I will probably bolt the factory recovery point on until I come up with a better solution to yalls point.

Bosnian also thanks for the detailed explanation. I can appreciate corrective critisicism coming from a credible source than just everyone repeating the same phrase over and over. I am going to keep practicing and we will see what we come up with in the future.
Still don't get it, huh? So we're not all structural engineers, so what? How many years of off road experience do the members here have do you think? Have many do you have? Ok, great. Now that we've established that.....
Would you be so reluctant to take good peoples advice if we were in person and just had a couple beers? Probably not I'm guessing.

The factory "recovery point" is NOT a recovery point. Its a tie down point and at best a tow point.
Ask MBS13 how nervous I was about using his factory tie down to get him unstuck from the mud in October? I actually connected my tree strap to each one of his tie down points, then used a shackle in the middle of the tree strap connected to my yanker. I figure it at least split the load between the two points.
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