Engine Flush

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by Elemental

Yeah, dont explain why... Just tell them what to use....

I have explained what to use and why. I have not recommended a brand of oil. You continue to explain nothing. You obviously know none of the specs for Rotella and yet you recommend it. You just keep on dodging putting up anything to back up your recommendation of Rotella, except that it is cheap and available. So is water.

Originally Posted by Elemental

I made a recomdation on what I would use. Rotella has good Shear Protection. It's cheap. Its avalible everywhere....What more do you want?

Come one, tell us what the shear rating is of this oil, if you know it. Is it higher than the Mobil 1 15W50 previously quoted. Generalised statements again with nothing to back it up.

Originally Posted by Elemental

And, there is no design flaw that wears out cams. Its a oil flaw!

You idiot. Do you reckon that the design flaw might be getting the oil to the cam.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by boca disco

Ok, well now im all confused. Whats the best suggestion for oil in an 04 in south fla where the temp is usually above 90 degrees.

As previously stated, I would go for a 15W60. I would not go below a xxW50.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre

I have read that the latest specs have actually reduced wear additives, so it stands to reason that one must be more careful than simply relying on what is in the owner's manual.

I love what you write. Are you saying that oils have got worse over the years. That the new hi tec engines have to put up with oils that do not protect as well as oils produced 10 or 20 years ago. The oils quoted in the manual would be even better now.

Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre

I see Rangie has managed to dodge the question why on the one hand he relies so heavily on what is in the owner's manual, but then ignores it anway.

What are you going on about. I answered your question. Can't you read or simply choose not to.

Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre

It specifically states which oil weight to use, and that it must be A3/B3 rates..

Where have I suggested an oil that does not meet A3/B3 requirements.

Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre

Then he goes and uses something heavier, which may lead to poor oil flow.

Where have I done this. Elemental is the only one suggesting to use oils outside manufacturers specs. That is, a 15W oil in temperatures below -10C and a 40 weight oil in temperatures above 35C. I have gone to great lengths to state that you should use the xxW rating specified in the owners manual for your climate conditions. The cold viscosity is the thickest that the oil will ever be. So a 15W60 will always be thinner at 100C (the upper end viscosity rating) than what it is at its cold rating. What I have said is, as the cold index is only applicable for a short period of time (first start up), and that the oil is rated at temperatures well below the manufacturers recommendations. Therefore I stated that I would be more concerned about making sure I complied with the hot viscosity manufacturers recommendations that the cold.

Your blind support of a friend is admirable, but think before you write.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by Elemental

Anything that has ANY of the following approvals will NOT meet the requirements you need to protect the 1960s Tech, flat tappet lifters engine that Land Rover Used:
ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, C1, C2 GM 6094M, 4718M ILSAC GF-4

Where do you come up with such statements. Talk about telling people about what to do rather than why. You just continue to make generalised statements.

All oils still have anti-wear additives like Zinc. . The zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine. Hopefully the oil will do its job and this will rarely occur, but if it does, the zinc compounds react with the metal to prevent scuffing and wear. A level of .11% is enough to protect an automobile engine for the extended oil drain interval, under normal use. Those of you with high revving, air cooled motorcycles or turbo charged cars or bikes might want to look at the oils with the higher zinc content. More doesn't give you better protection, it gives you longer protection if the rate of metal to metal contact is abnormally high. High zinc content can lead to deposit formation and plug fouling. Current levels in most oils are well above the minimum requirements. Recent reductions in the levels have not be proven to have ANY adverse impact on Rover V8s

[p76rangie]

WARNING ON USING ROTELLA FOR CAM PROTECTION
It would appear that some on this forum do not keep up to date in the fields that they are suppose to be experts in. One of the reasons given for using Rotella was the protection of Cams. It would appear that this is no longer the case. The Engine Rebuilders Association specfically list Rotella as an oil NOT to use due to its lack of protection for the cam.

AERA/AERSCO (Engine Builders Association)
AERA Technical Services Departmart
Diesel engine oils produced before January 2007 had a CI-4 oil designation and offer higher levels of Zinc and wear preventive additives than passenger car oils.
BUT, after January 2007, the CJ-4 oil designation for new truck engine manufacturers mandates oils with a reduction in Zinc.
Do not break-in a flat tappet camshaft and lifters using Rotella T CJ-4 15w-40.


A further point about how good a lubricant Rotella is. The less wear and friction, the better performance and fuel economy you will get. Of 3 oils tested below, Rotella provided the worst fuel economy by up to 5%. At fuel prices today, Rotella's cheap purchase price will be negated each time you fill up with fuel.

Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering Department
North Carolina State University for NC Department of Administration, Energy Office

At 1200 rpm, Royal Purple oil was about 4.5% more fuel efficient than Shell Rotella 15W/40, and about 2.5% more efficient than Amsoil. At 1600 rpthe Royal Purple oil required about 5% less fuel than Shell Rotella 15w/40, and about 3% less fuel than Amsoil


I am not setting out to destroy Rotella. I have just been attempting to find the shear point for it. It appears to be one of those oils that they do not want to provide this information. Obviously they are not too proud of it. But I found the stuff above looking for it.

[ArmyRover]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

WARNING ON USING ROTELLA FOR CAM PROTECTION
Do not break-in a flat tappet camshaft and lifters using Rotella T CJ-4 15w-40

at 156k should I still be concerned with breaking in the cam?











































Hell at my mileage I'm surprised my cam still has lobes.

sorry had to lighten this up a bit

[Elemental]

Did you see anything about using GM EOS to break in new cams? I bet you did.

And, cam break in is different then after the cam is broken in. 2 different things.

I would still use Rotella, but also add a can of Gm EOS, pouring it over the cam before installation.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by Elemental

Did you see anything about using GM EOS to break in new cams? I bet you did.

And, cam break in is different then after the cam is broken in. 2 different things.

I would still use Rotella, but also add a can of Gm EOS, pouring it over the cam before installation.

How you quickly change the subject. You have previously stated that the newer oils with lower zinc levels should not be used in motors like the Rover V8. Rotella for the last 2 years has had the same zinc levels as the oils you state should not be used. But now you appear to be saying that it doesn't matter and you should still use Rotella anyway.

I wish you would make up your mind. Why exactly do you think that people should use a diesel oil in a gasoline motor. The only other reason you have given is that you reckon that Rotella has a higher shear rating. Yet you can't quote what the rating is and I have not been able to find it on any specs related to Rotella.

You just continue to show how much you really know. Some expert!!

[Elemental]

You misunderstood. Zinc is good for Flat tappet engines, but you can have too much. Zinc ruins cat convertors.In the absence of Zinc, you need to have a high sheer rating to protect your cam.
Why would you not use Diesel oil, Because it says it on the bottle?

I'm paid for this knowledge. Are you?

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by Elemental

You misunderstood. Zinc is good for Flat tappet engines, but you can have too much. Zinc ruins cat convertors.In the absence of Zinc, you need to have a high sheer rating to protect your cam.
Why would you not use Diesel oil, Because it says it on the bottle?

I'm paid for this knowledge. Are you?

You change your story whenever you are shot down. You have continually quoted the reduction in Zinc levels as having a harmful effect on the cams.

You now say that you should use Rotella due to its shear rating, but you don't even know what it is. If you wanted a high sheer factor you would be wanting a higher viscosity oil. Give it up.

[Elemental]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

You change your story whenever you are shot down. You have continually quoted the reduction in Zinc levels as having a harmful effect on the cams.

Um, yeah.... Reduced Zinc is harmful to cams because zinc provides a protective "layer".

You now say that you should use Rotella due to its shear rating, but you don't even know what it is. Give it up.

You can make up for less zinc with a higher sheer rating.

Seriously, do you eat lead paint or something?

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by Elemental

You can make up for less zinc with a higher sheer rating.

Seriously, do you eat lead paint or something?

Do you actually know anything about oil. Read by previous post on the requirements of Zinc. You can also read the link you posted to Penrite. Zinc is there to protect the engine when there is no oil on that component. How can an oil with a increased sheer factor replace the function of Zinc.

It has not been me that has been telling people not to use a particular oil because of lower Zinc levels.

It is becoming more apparent with each of your posts that this debate is becoming pointless. I have been attempting to debate the finer points of oil with someone who clearly knows nothing about the subject and does not have the logic to think things through before he posts.

[Elemental]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

Do you actually know anything about oil. Read by previous post on the requirements of Zinc. You can also read the link you posted to Penrite. Zinc is there to protect the engine when there is no oil on that component. How can an oil with a increased sheer factor replace the function of Zinc.

It protects it from the lifter smacking into from the valve spring pressure also, with too low a sheer rating, it can and does push past that.

It has not been me that has been telling people not to use a particular oil because of lower Zinc levels.

If thats what you got from me, you misread.

It is becoming more apparent with each of your posts that this debate is becoming pointless. I have been attempting to debate the finer points of oil with someone who clearly knows nothing about the subject and does not have the logic to think things through before he posts.

Whatever. You mean how a oil thats "almost
spec is ok to use?

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by Elemental

It protects it from the lifter smacking into from the valve spring pressure also, with too low a sheer rating, it can and does push past that.

I will repeat myself again. How can an oil replace the function of zinc when the function of zinc is to protect the surface when THERE IS NO OIL THERE.

You also must have faulty tappets if your cam SMACKS them. Must make one hell of a racket.

The tappets slide along the cam. This results in it scrapping off the oil as its edge moves along the cam. It should not scrap off all the oil, but if it does, the zinc is there until a new lot of oil is deposited on the cam.

I don't know why I bother to explain this to you. I know that you cannot comprehend or take it in. I will just wait for your next stupid response.

[Elemental]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

I will repeat myself again. How can an oil replace the function of zinc when the function of zinc is to protect the surface when THERE IS NO OIL THERE.

It cant, no oil can...BUt, zine also protects when its running.

You also must have faulty tappets if your cam SMACKS them. Must make one hell of a racket.

Semantics. You knew what I meant!

The tappets slide along the cam. This results in it scrapping off the oil as its edge moves along the cam.

Sure does. This is where Zinc or High Sheer plays its role.

It should not scrap off all the oil, but if it does, the zinc is there until a new lot of oil is deposited on the cam.

Yep. That is correct. Now, buy into the fact that oil today isnt what it was before. Most oils today will scrap off easily, and the sheer rating have dropped. So, higher sheer ratings will prevent the sracping that Zinc made up for in the past.

I don't know why I bother to explain this to you. I know that you cannot comprehend or take it in. I will just wait for your next stupid response.

We are so close I can taste it.