Long Brake Pedal Syndrome?

[PCrover]

My friendly LR Service Mngr has explained to me that the reason my brake pedal feels musshy on my 2001 DII is due to "Long Brake Pedal Syndrome". WTF? Is this guy crazy or is it me? He says there is nothing he can do and that bleeding the brakes won't make a difference. His explanation to why mine does this and another same year truck doesn't is "MFG tolerances" and "Rovers are no all the same". When I have had other vehicles with a soft pedal that becomes firm on the second pump, it is due to the brake system needing bleeding. Is this not true for Land Rovers? Can some one please exlplain "Long Brake Pedal Syndrome" to me?

[Adam in NYC USA]

Just came back from the brake shop. I had two incidents in creeping traffic when the brake pedal had no effect until I mashed the pedal to the firewall.

Since I had not had the brakes inspected recently, I took the 96 D1 to the Midas brake shop. Got a few pieces of news (called surprises).

ALL the rotors were under the mininium specification of thinness. Can't shave them because they were already shaved by the pads.

All the pads were worn down to the backing except one set. The technician let me in the work shop since I was able to talk the talk and I had the the front set of rotors. When he removed one set of pads in the front, the screwdriver punched thru the backing , not the braking material, and I saw cracking thru the old pads.

The two incidents were probably the pads beginning to crack up like cookies and beginning to fail and then the hydraudics compensated for the pads yielding under the pressure of the calipers.

In 24 hours hindsight, One thing I don't think I will be doing in a New York summer again is to work on changing the brake pads. It was 90 in an open shop with moderate humidity. Excellent weather for heatstroke or worse.

Thanks that I saw ahead and ordered the rotors for the front. Next time I will order front and back rotors and keep them in my parts corner for the D1.

Afterwards, the brake pedal was up in the air and is now up and firm like a mother. The bad thing, I am still waiting for another rear rotor. Seems that D1 rotors are kept in stock one at a time in a big town like NYC. Now thats stupid.

BTW, I bought a a pair stock rotors from JT Outfitters last October on eBay for about $80 dollars. Other than a beautiful UPS female delivering a box full of rotors weighing 33 lbs, they had just sat in the loadspace until yesterday.

Now I am real broke but got brakes!

On a whim, get those pads and rotor thicknesses checked.

I bet you will solve the mystery of the traveling brake pedal.

Adam in NYC : Traffic in NYC!

PS Tell your Dealer to check the brakes or go to someone who knows brakes and have them do the job. Then fire your muttenhead of a Dealer. Do a Trump (You're fired!)

[pavel]

PCrover-We had a similar situation with the wife's 96 Disco 5 spd when I bled the clutch system (sometimes I get overly enthusiastic) and then found the pedal worked only from half way down to the bottom. turned out to be air trapped in the clutch master because of the insane angle the master is attached! I simply took the vehicle to a nearby steep hill and pointed the nose down. At that angle, I pumped the peddle about 30 times and voila, the air escaped into the fluid reservoir and all was normal again. Interestingly, the Dealer couldn't offer any advice, they just gave the standard: "Leave it with us". Now if you look at the brake master cylinder, you'll see that it also sits at an angle (front up). Is it possible you have air in there? Was any brake work done just before the trouble began? Just my two-bits worth but it costs nothing to try the nose down method... Pavel.

[PCrover]

Thanks for the info. I am going to have to get into the brakes and see what is going on with them. It could be just worn pads and rotors, but it was the attitude and "explanation" from the dealer that got me all fired up.

[Beirut_Rover]

Having just purchased my D1 I was unsure of how far the brake pedal should travel... it seemed a little too far to me when I first drove it and now I am thinking I might have to have mine checked too.
How long should one expect a set of pads to last given moderate driving??

I was told my truck was serviced regularly but I am beginning to doubt the realiability of this information!

[Adam in NYC USA]

Originally Posted by Beirut_Rover

Having just purchased my D1 I was unsure of how far the brake pedal should travel... it seemed a little too far to me when I first drove it and now I am thinking I might have to have mine checked too.
How long should one expect a set of pads to last given moderate driving??

I was told my truck was serviced regularly but I am beginning to doubt the realiability of this information!

If you get braking action in the middle of the travel, you are doing fine. This is not a GMC van or truck where you have to put the brake all the way down to the firewall (which explains why my local U-Haul has a yard of crashed moving vans because of operators inexpierence).

Some of the old power brakes were REAL sensitive,like my dad's old Dodge Coronet , you touch it it stopped like you ran into a wall.

Try this first and them you see what I mean. Get into the vehicle do a quick drive and then pull over. Turn off the vehicle and drink something cool or smoke your favorite. Then continue.

I would suggest ,before starting the vehicle, to pump the brake pedal until it is firm.

Now drive again. Try out the braking action. How different is it and how is it responding to you?

Adam in NYC : Dang NYC traffic in the summer!

[Beirut_Rover]

Thanks a lot Adam!
I will give that a shot and let you know the results
If the braking feels better after being pumped a few times then it is time to get the brakes looked at yes?

[montaggio]

I've noticed that mine gets firmer on second pump. Its not bad on the first press, but definitely firmer on the second. Doesn't last though - next stop the whole thing repeats itself. Suggestions?

[Adam in NYC USA]

Originally Posted by Beirut_Rover

Thanks a lot Adam!
I will give that a shot and let you know the results
If the braking feels better after being pumped a few times then it is time to get the brakes looked at yes?

Drive cautiously and give yourself plenty of stopping distance if you are concerned. If you are not comfortable or do a lot of aggressive motoring, I would suggest taking it to a brake shop or expierenced mechanic you can trust.

The technique is one that is modified from that what to do if you start losing the brakes. Any air or cavity in the braking system will be compressed awhile the braking fluid is not compressable.

I just finished doing front and rear axles and now my LR is another beast entirely. Now comes the fun in the Baked Apple: We lost the spring and went straight into torrid summer.

Adam in NYC

[Beirut_Rover]

Originally Posted by Adam in NYC USA

Drive cautiously and give yourself plenty of stopping distance if you are concerned. If you are not comfortable or do a lot of aggressive motoring, I would suggest taking it to a brake shop or expierenced mechanic you can trust.

Adam in NYC

Driving cautiously here in Lebanon is unfortunately not an option! LOL
Picture any of those crazy scenes you have seen on TV of Asian countries except without the motorbikes (Lebaneese would not sink so low as to have only two wheels!)

The other day I was passed on the freeway, by about 3 inches, by a Ferrari 360 doing about 60mph in peak hour traffic... they have no fear here!

Thanks for the advice... I think I will leave the brakes alone and see if they get worse. I will have to sell the car in a couple of years when I leave here so I am trying not to spend too much money on it.

[Searcaigh]

My 2001 Disco has the same problem, press twice to brake harder, get used to it because it is an early DII syndrome.

My 2004 Disco on the other hand brakes very well with one press on the pedal.

[OrangeCountyLR714]

Originally Posted by montaggio

I've noticed that mine gets firmer on second pump. Its not bad on the first press, but definitely firmer on the second. Doesn't last though - next stop the whole thing repeats itself. Suggestions?

YES I thought this was just happening to me as well, sometimes i wonder if ppl are wondering what the heck i push my brake two times for but it seriously stops my Land Rover faster. Is something wrong with it? When I drive my dad's infiniti a touch of the brake will have you face on the windshield. haha i mean i know i have 4-wheel brakes too

[trevor]

Had the same problem on my 2000 TD5.

The brake pedal travels a long way. One or two pumps and it feels really solid.

I had a mechanic check all the pads, which were fine after only 20,000 Kms.

He suggested bleeding all the brakes, which he did.

No difference.

I had it all checked again, everything works fine, but the pedal is still soft.

We ran the braking test (Used for road testing in Australia) - the brakes passed the test.

So, do I just have to live with a pedal that gets softer? When does it end?

[PCrover]

I did a gravity bleed of the brakes today in my 2001 DII and it helped a whole bunch. I can now brake with only one push of the pedal, instead of having to pump it twice. It still is not as firm as I would want it, but it is acceptable now.

[JMan]

Gravity bleed? Please explain furthur.