need help on diagnosis for disco 2

[landrovergeek]

99 disco 2, 4.0, 115k on the truck, 15k on the motor (new LR long block)

symptoms:
-no start every 3 or 4 days, fine all other days
-everything cranks over. sounds like it would start, just won't.
-come back to it an hour later....it starts
-on the days it starts, it stalls while driving without notice (later in the day after driving).
-after "letting it rest" for an hour, starts up again

action taken so far:
-took it to the dealer
-paid over $700 to install a new fuel pump
-next day, stalls while driving
-definitely going back to the dealer for some $$$


any advice on this?

[Disco Mike]

Originally Posted by landrovergeek

99 disco 2, 4.0, 115k on the truck, 15k on the motor (new LR long block)

symptoms:
-no start every 3 or 4 days, fine all other days
-everything cranks over. sounds like it would start, just won't.
-come back to it an hour later....it starts
-on the days it starts, it stalls while driving without notice (later in the day after driving).
-after "letting it rest" for an hour, starts up again

action taken so far:
-took it to the dealer
-paid over $700 to install a new fuel pump
-next day, stalls while driving
-definitely going back to the dealer for some $$$


any advice on this?

Oh, sounds like you are having way too much fun with the old truck.
I also have a 99 and luckily haven't been so blessed.
To start with, has your check engine light come on during any of thes problems, if so, what specific codes came up?
When you took it to the dealer, how did he determine, exactly, that your fuel pump was the cause? In other words, did he do a fuel pressure test and verify that you had no fuel pressure during these no start times? If he didn't, go twist the mechanics head off and request a full refund. The only way to verify this is to ask to see the mechanics notes on the back of the work order.
During these times of no start, did you verify fuel to the injectors and spark?
I am leaning towards a coil pack failure, which is common on our trucks.
Mike

[landrovergeek]

Originally Posted by Disco Mike

Oh, sounds like you are having way too much fun with the old truck.
I also have a 99 and luckily haven't been so blessed.
To start with, has your check engine light come on during any of thes problems, if so, what specific codes came up?
When you took it to the dealer, how did he determine, exactly, that your fuel pump was the cause? In other words, did he do a fuel pressure test and verify that you had no fuel pressure during these no start times? If he didn't, go twist the mechanics head off and request a full refund. The only way to verify this is to ask to see the mechanics notes on the back of the work order.
During these times of no start, did you verify fuel to the injectors and spark?
I am leaning towards a coil pack failure, which is common on our trucks.
Mike

thanks disco mike, appreciate it

[Disco Mike]

Originally Posted by landrovergeek

thanks disco mike, appreciate it

So, I am curious to hear the answers to the questions I asked you.
Sometime following thru will help you find the answer to the problems you are having, by the way, I have nealry 30 years in shop experience and am willing to try and help you.
Mike

[landrovergeek]

MIKE...PLEASE SEE ALL CAPS IN MESSAGE QUOTE BELOW....

I'LL LET YOU KNOW.....WHEN I GO BACK TO HAVE THEM CHECK IT.

THANKS

Originally Posted by Disco Mike

Oh, sounds like you are having way too much fun with the old truck.
I also have a 99 and luckily haven't been so blessed.
To start with, has your check engine light come on during any of thes problems, if so, what specific codes came up?

FOR THE TIMES IT DID A "COMPLETE STALL WHILE DRIVING", ALL OF THE DASH LIGHTS CAME ON, AND I REMEMBER THE "M" AND "S" BLINKING AFTER THE STALL.

FOR THE TIMES THAT IT "MOMENTARILY STUDDERED AND THEN KEPT RUNNING WHILE DRIVING", THE "SERVICE ENGINE SOON" LIGHT BLINKED THEN DISAPPEARED AS I CONTINUED TO DRIVE.

FOR THE MORNING "NO STARTS", ALL LIGHTS ON DASH CAME ON, JUST AS THEY WOULD WHEN INITIALLY TRYING TO START UNDER NORMAL CONDITIONS.

When you took it to the dealer, how did he determine, exactly, that your fuel pump was the cause? In other words, did he do a fuel pressure test and verify that you had no fuel pressure during these no start times?

I AM PLANNING TO ASK THE SERVICE GUYS THESE QUESTIONS. I DO HAVE A PRETTY GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM. I BOUGHT MY TRUCK THERE, I DO HAVE ALL MAJOR SERVICE INTERVALS PLUS THE STUFF THAT I CAN'T DO MYSELF THERE. IN ADDITION, I JUST PUT A 4.0 LONG BLOCK IN 15,000 MILES AGO. (YOU KNOW WHAT THAT COST ME.....)


If he didn't, go twist the mechanics head off and request a full refund. The only way to verify this is to ask to see the mechanics notes on the back of the work order.
During these times of no start, did you verify fuel to the injectors and spark?

AFTER THE LAST STALL WHILE DRIVING, I HAD THE DISCO FLATBEDDED TO THE DEALER. I WILL PLAN TO ASK THEM IF THEY CHECKED THIS TOO.

I am leaning towards a coil pack failure, which is common on our trucks.
Mike

[Disco Mike]

The only reason I thought you might want to continue what you started was so that when you go back to the shop, you might have a better grasp on where to go.
Thats the whole idea of any of these forums is to get feed back, check it out and slowly get the problem figured so you don't ,as an example, spend $700 on a pump you probably didn't need.
If not, that isn't a problem for me.
Mike

[landrovergeek]

i agree.

this dealer is in cincinnati. they have been pretty good so far. hopefully, they will be willing to work with me to solve the issue as well as work with me with the $$$$700.

i'll keep you updated.....
thanks

Originally Posted by Disco Mike

The only reason I thought you might want to continue what you started was so that when you go back to the shop, you might have a better grasp on where to go.
Thats the whole idea of any of these forums is to get feed back, check it out and slowly get the problem figured so you don't ,as an example, spend $700 on a pump you probably didn't need.
If not, that isn't a problem for me.
Mike

[6cuda6]

I'm sure the dealer will work things out with you but you'll have to perhaps leave the truck with them till they can see the failure and diag it at that moment. As a mecanic there is nothing harder or more frustrating that trying to fix a problem that cannot be duplicated at time of inspection.....[as VW says, if you can't duplicate it there's no problem]

And to further help your cause....write down exactly what is going on at the time this happens...ie; raining out,truck sitting for 3 days elevated, radio on and window down before turning the key to start position,drove 10 miles on hot day with A/C on etc....this will help them try to duplicate the things that were going on at the time.

later, Dean

[landrovergeek]

Originally Posted by 6cuda6

I'm sure the dealer will work things out with you but you'll have to perhaps leave the truck with them till they can see the failure and diag it at that moment. As a mecanic there is nothing harder or more frustrating that trying to fix a problem that cannot be duplicated at time of inspection.....[as VW says, if you can't duplicate it there's no problem]

And to further help your cause....write down exactly what is going on at the time this happens...ie; raining out,truck sitting for 3 days elevated, radio on and window down before turning the key to start position,drove 10 miles on hot day with A/C on etc....this will help them try to duplicate the things that were going on at the time.

later, Dean

good advice, thanks

[landrovergeek]

disco mike

i just ran by the advanced auto store nearby to check for any stored codes.

no codes were found.

after leaving and making one other stop, would not start again.


the LR service manager (PRIOR TO REPLACING MY FUEL PUMP), told me that in the event of a no start, i should do the following:

-turn key to position 2, wait for 15 seconds, turn key off
-repeat second time
-repeat third time
-try to start


so i did that, and guess what....it started!


thanks

Originally Posted by Disco Mike

The only reason I thought you might want to continue what you started was so that when you go back to the shop, you might have a better grasp on where to go.
Thats the whole idea of any of these forums is to get feed back, check it out and slowly get the problem figured so you don't ,as an example, spend $700 on a pump you probably didn't need.
If not, that isn't a problem for me.
Mike

[Disco Mike]

Originally Posted by landrovergeek

disco mike

i just ran by the advanced auto store nearby to check for any stored codes.

no codes were found.

after leaving and making one other stop, would not start again.


the LR service manager (PRIOR TO REPLACING MY FUEL PUMP), told me that in the event of a no start, i should do the following:

-turn key to position 2, wait for 15 seconds, turn key off
-repeat second time
-repeat third time
-try to start


so i did that, and guess what....it started!


thanks

Ok,
So what he recommended was basicily manually priming the fuel system to operating pressure so it would start, which makes since as far as starting problems go, but not stalling problems.
Have you tried driving with the fuel cap off to see if the tank is venting properly, if it doesn't stall with the cap off, then you need to look there.
I am still wondering about the fuel pump relay. If it is failing, which they do big time, the same problems will show up.
I think it would be worth your while to go by one at an auto parts store and replace it, they are a common size and cheap.
Let me know how it goes.
Mike

[6cuda6]

Do you know if they or anyone has changed the fuel filter??? I also support the relay issue [same symptoms you have happen to the 90-93 Honda Accords and the relay is the problem]...if it's cheap, why not.....Dean

[landrovergeek]

disco mike and 6cuda6

here's the update.

as mentioned, i had one no start and 2 stalls over the weekend after the fuel pump replacement.

went to the dealer this morning. the dealer was cooperative. they sold me a fuel pump relay for about $20.

we agreed that i would drive it for about a week and then provide them an update...

maybe that will be it. i'll provide an update at the end of the week

thanks

Originally Posted by Disco Mike

Ok,
So what he recommended was basicily manually priming the fuel system to operating pressure so it would start, which makes since as far as starting problems go, but not stalling problems.
Have you tried driving with the fuel cap off to see if the tank is venting properly, if it doesn't stall with the cap off, then you need to look there.
I am still wondering about the fuel pump relay. If it is failing, which they do big time, the same problems will show up.
I think it would be worth your while to go by one at an auto parts store and replace it, they are a common size and cheap.
Let me know how it goes.
Mike

[6cuda6]

Good luck...hope it fixes it...keep us posted!!! later, Dean

[Disco Mike]

Originally Posted by 6cuda6

Good luck...hope it fixes it...keep us posted!!! later, Dean

I go along with that, here's hoping.
As part of your driving using the new relay, if it still acts up, try driving with out the gas cap.
Mike