New Head Gaskets, New battery, no crank

[klaine1]

I changed my head gaskets for the second time, and after completing the job, i installed a new battery. When the key is in position II, I'm getting the red battery light on the dash board (and SES, TC, and brake). No flashing M & S. I put the key in the driver's door and cycled the unlock and lock three times to reset the alarm. I cycled the handset unlock and lock as well. I connected a jumper cable from the positive terminal on the battery to the starter solenoid. The new battery has 12.5 volts, and 16 volts with the charger/starter hooked up the battery. The connection at the alternator is 12.5 and 16 volts as well. The fuses are good. I can't find my EKA code (unless it is the same as the four numbers on the original spare key). No crank, the system will not wake up. Am I missing something?

[Disco Mike]

So will the engine not turn over, have you reset the inerita switch on the fire wall near the heater hoses?

[dnice]

Maybe a issue with the wiring on the starter or a bad ignition switch.

[klaine1]

i've checked the inertia switch, and it was not triggered. the volts at the starter are the same as the battery and alternator, 12.4. However, the lucar wire (i'm assuming that's the ignition wire) has 0.0 volts, even when in position II and III. The lights do not dim when in position III. I pulled the relays from the engine compartment fusebox, 12.4 volts in each. I hear the starter relay "click" when in position III. I took off the plastic cover of the starter relay and it looked ok (the windings and transitor appeared to be intact), no soot. jumped starter solenoid to positive terminal on battery, no crank. reset the alarm with the key fob, many times -- took negative cable and positive cable off the battery and touched them together to reset the computer. left the key in the ignition in position II for 5 minutes to have the ECM and BCU communicate.

after changing the head gaskets, the battery was 43% (but would hold a charge) however, the battery light was on and the truck would not crank. I got a new battery - battery light still on and no crank (even with a schumacher speedcharger). I disconnected the negative cable, put the ignition in position II and reconnected the negative to the battery - no crank. Kept the ignition in position II and pulled the ECM fuse in the engine compartment fusebox and now i have the flashing "M & S" and "battery light" on. All other electronics work, windows, radio, etc.. I hear the IAVC (idle air contral valve) humming, but no crank.

How do you check a faulty ignition switch? I do recall a time when it seemed as if i could not get the key out of the ignition, as if it were stuck mid-position, but one day it began to come out smoothly.

[gurunutkins]

Originally Posted by klaine1

. jumped starter solenoid to positive terminal on battery, no crank.
.

If you disconnected all the wires at the starter and jumped the solenoid with the battery power direct and there was no crank then the starter is bad. Either the points in the solenoid are jammed or they are corroded over and not making contact.
No point in messing about with anything else unless you can get the starter to spin with direct battery juice
cheers
Barri

[klaine1]

the starter cranks with a remote ignition starter (i removed the lucar wire only, and put an alligator clip there and touched it to the positive cable on the alternator - it turned over good. the starter relay in the engine compartment fusebox "clicks" when the key is in position III. the starter and fuel pump relay do not seem to be energized. i've checked all the grounds, i think. A year ago i changed the engine harness because coolant burst under the hood and shorted out the wires next to the fuel rail and injectors -- another fun project, but the problem was fixed.

does the ignition coil have to be grounded to the manifold and bolted down? the engine strap is grounded to the firewall. I have not had the alternator checked by autozone, but it seems to be getting proper voltage. the fuel pump relay works when i remove the plastic and manually trigger the contact -- i hear the pump start. I looked at the key ignition, but i'm not sure what i'm looking for. I erased the codes with my scanner and the M and S no longer flash, and the gear shift "D" no longer flashes -- the brake and battery light remain lit. the R8 relay in the engine compartment fusebox has no voltage? i'm not sure what to try next?

[frederickg]

Are all of your grounds hooked up? When I did the head gaskets on my Disco I forgot to hook the ground by the alternator back up to the engine. The truck would do everything but crank. Maybe something to check.

[klaine1]

thanks frederickg i double checked the ground below the alternator, and thoroughly cleaned the surfaces. I pulled out my old engine harness to check the location of all the grounds, and checked the corresponding grounds. I'm pretty sure I've connected everything, but could be wrong. i took the plastic off the starter relay to watch it click. it clicked when the ignition switch was turned to position III, but got warm to touch (the windings). it would make contact very quickly, spring back and stay disconnected until the key ignition was put in the position 0 and turned to position III again. In other words, it would not stay connected while the key ignition was in position III.

[klaine1]

im not getting power to the ignition wire on the starter. the starter cranks fine with a remote starter. i jumped the wire at the multiplug in the engine compartment fuse box and starter will crank (thus no crimp or brake in wire from multi plug to starter. starter relay seems to work (R6 in engine compartment right?) seems to be a disconnect from starter relay to multiplug in fuse box. I think i will disassemble the fuse box to look for corrosion between the starter relay and multi plug.

i checked the key ignition switch with my multi-meter (the round switch with 4 wires soldered on it). it appears to have continuity in the right sequence, i.e. position I,II, and III (watched a youtube video on BMW ignition switch). I'm not sure if the "excitor" is working or its actual function. Called land rover service department again and they said the TestBook would not give me any answers either.

If the key ignition is signalling the ECM, and the ECM is signalling the starter relay, but the starter relay is not signalling the ignition wire on the multiplug -- thats got to be where the problem lies right (maybe fired circuit board in fuse box from all the coolant leaks and boiling coolant reservoir)?

Why would the battery light stay on and i dont hear the fuel pump relay ?

[klaine1]

i disassembled the engine compartment fuse box and did not see any blown circuits. I think I made a mistake in my previous post. The starter relay in the engine compartment fusebox is R9 (not R6), at least that is the relay that makes contact when the key ignition is in position III. The yellow relay in the passenger compartment fusebox seems to operate properly when the key is in position III. The Rave describes the signal from the key ignition first going to BCU (not ECM), then to the engine compartment fusebox to a 10A fuse, then to the starter relay in the engine compartment fusebox, then to the multiplug, then to the starter. i'm totally out of ideas and still cannot check to see if my head gasket repairs worked?!

[klaine1]

Thanks to mike and antichrist the truck is cranking and running. So far no combustion gases in coolant, no coolant lost, but hoses still seems hot and a little hard. I think its air in system, but I dont hear water fall behind glove compartment. we'll see if the second set of head gaskets will hold.

Antichrist gave me a link for a RAVE manual with electrical schematics and the ignition diagrams. Also, I watched a youtube video called "No Crank / No Start Relay Diagnosis Jeep." It was very helpful. I took the plastic off the R2 starter relay in the engine compartment fusebox. The relay clicked when turning the key to the cranking position, but no crank. The relay worked, but I was not getting a ground signal from the BCU. Without the ground the magnet coil in the relay would not energize and close the contact. I tried turning the key in the cranking position, while switching gears in the automatic transmission -- no sign of cranking or neutral switch problem. Finally, I put a wire in the #2 post in the starter relay and mashed the relay prong down in the hole with the wire. Then I grounded the other end of the wire to the chassis. The truck cranks fine. however, the ground is constant, and i'm not sure if its harmful to the BCU. I'm not sure what switch is not telling the BCU to send a ground signal to the starter relay. I'm still checking. I've attached a picture of the temporary fix to "battery light, no crank" issue.

[klaine1]

no coolant loss and the temporary fix to the starter relay still works fine. i'm very happy.