U-Joint Discussion......

[antichrist]

Originally Posted by Alak

Non-greasable units are fine. They just require replacement more frequently than properly maintained greasable units. Most service places give them a shot of grease anyways.

Yes, they are fine, it's not like they are lower quality, all other things being equal, it's just they don't last as long in this particular application.
As for service places, that's another thing you have to be aware of if you replace them with greasable type. Since the DII doesn't come with greasable DC u-joints a service center might miss greasing them. If you don't do your own service it's important that you mention to them that your DC needs service as well.

[Alak]

Exactly. Its just another way you have to stay on top of truck maintenance. The last owner of my truck was dead lazy. When I changed the fluid in all three diffs, they were all black and goopy (never been changed) except for the back. The only reason the back was cleaned was because 40,000kms ago, the rear axle seals were done.

I have one greaseable joint on the front while the other two are sealed. Im not sure why, but It came what way. I imagine it failed at some point and way replaced that way. Im going to take the shaft out and get everything replaced, then balanced. Ever since I put the lift on, I get a bit of driveshaft shimmy from time to time.

[antichrist]

The DII front propshaft comes with the diff end greasable and the DC sealed.

[1hank1]

Originally Posted by boob

The sealed ones will generally last longer as they don't let crap into the bearings.

This is really not correct. Even as stated in your post's linking u-joint information, you can even read studies that blow your comments out of the water.

Greaseable U-joints have been around for....well, for over 100 years in one-way-shape-or-form. Greasable U-joints are not new. Greasing your u-joints is common automobile maintenance. It's like changing your oil, rotating your tires, changing your filters, or replacing your brake pads.

Greaseable ones let the crap in and then rely on you greasing them to get it back out again.

I'm glad you understand one aspect of the mandatory greasing of the u-joint. Although, I wonder what "crap" actually gets into the u-joint? Sand? Dirt? Water? It would seem to me that the seals are tight enough to keep sand or dirt out. Water can get into anything, I don't care how well it's sealed. Unless it's pressurized and holds pressure, water will seep in. But, doesn't grease repel water? Is water really a huge problem with U-joints? Sure, if you soak you U-joints in a pool of water for an extended period of time the grease will wash out, eventually. But the occasional creek/river crossing or mud hole is not all that detrimental to the u-joint. Keeping them well lubed, is.

Sealed units are new generation, greaseable are old tech.

This is just another iFact (Ian Fact). It's like sealed ball joints or sealed tie rod ends. These items are basically junk. They come on the newer cars and trucks but typically do not last all that long. That's a proven fact.

But is still comes down to getting a reputable brand

I agree 100% here. There are many u-joints available for the Land Rovers and other 1300 series u-joint applications. The Precision joint is probably the biggest POS of them all. The recently discontinued Spicer 54x was the cats ass, but now Neapico* has picked up that design.

Hank thinks the guys on Pirate are gods, so you may want to read this link

This is yet another iFact. Since 2003, I may have 150 posts on Pirate4x4. Pirate4x4 is not a site I lurk on. I go there from time-to-time just to see what's new, but I'm generally not interested in the Pirate4x4 talk.

In summary, for the average Joe, they are a lot better off fitting sealed units.

You're going to have to describe the "average Joe" for us. If the average Joe is someone who buys their truck, keeps it stock, and has no mechanical abilities, I would probably agree with you somewhat. Then again, this is the person who will have his truck serviced by a mechanic. The mechanic will, most likely, grease u-joints after an oil change or related service. Water, mud, or dirt are probably not a big concern here.
If the "average Joe" is the Holiday weekend off-roader, that person probably understands the importance of greasing the u-joint.

If you go through a lot of VERY DEEP mud holes, you may be better off installing greasable, but only if you a prepared to grease them regularly. This is more often than at oil changes.

I'll agree with you here, too. Most people who do these 'mud bogs' or creek crossings on a regular basis probably understand this, too. These same people will also be flushing and changing their gear oil, too, between oil changes. It's just part of the game, nothing out of the ordinary here.

In regard to my comment about the grease nipple on the end of the Uni, are you really that stupid that you cannot understand why this is not a good idea off-road

Actually, the grease zirk in the end cap is a very good idea. It greatly improves the design of the u-joint. With a typical Precision u-joint, the grease zirk is located in the "X" of the joint. Any drilling, shaving, or reduced material with the "X" of the joint makes a weaker joint. The grease zirk in the end cap is a much better approach. It also makes greasing mush easier.

Mine are also greasable, and I grease them regularly, but I would be lucky to get 15,000 miles out of them.

Only 15,000 miles? Really, I think you should refer back to your own advice and buy some quality joints. Either that, or actually "grease" them with grease, not water.

I have damaged prop shafts on rocks etc on a regular basis. I have ripped the balancing weights off too many times. I have since had the prop shafts set up properly and no longer have any weights on them. I know that zerks hanging out the end would not last long in what I do.

I thought that you said in the 'other tread' that you do not mess in rocks too much??

Anyway, I call major bullshit here. I can count on one hand the number of times I've scraped my drive shaft. It's not really a common thing and I play in the rocks more then mud. In addition, the people I wheel with also play more in the rocks than the mud and do not have this problem. When your drive shaft meets a rock, typically, the drive shaft twists up like a pop can. If your drive shaft yokes are coming into contact with the ground, I think you'll have more problem than just a snapped off grease zirk.

And if you are not going to do serious mud work, you don't need them [grease zirk] to be that assessable.

This is just a stupid statement. That's like saying, "if you only change your oil every 7,500 miles, you really do not need the oil filler cap all that accessible.

Dumb....

From my understanding is that D2 prop shafts are not suppose to have the unis replaced. That is, you are suppose to replace the whole shaft.

This is just another iFact. No, the dealership is not going to fuck with replacing your u-joints on the D2. They would rather replace your entire shaft - and if you're under warranty, that's fine. But if the u-joints were not meant to be replaced, I think Land Rover would have gone about the drive shaft design another way, don't you agree? The 1300 U-joint is pretty common.

So you can do some research on sealed prop shafts. You will find that the new units are often good for 200,000 miles.

I'm having a hard time finding this information, Ian. Can you link me? I'll be holding my breath in the mean time.

Like everything, if you are prepared to take on board new ideas you can learn. This thread has prompted me to do some research and assuming that I can get them for my shafts, next time I will be using sealed unis.

Yes, you can get sealed 1300 u-joints. You can also get 1310's 1350's, and so on. Good luck with those.

So for those that believe that they have the dedication to get under the vehicle and grease them every month, get greasable units. For the rest, get sealed units.

Actually, once a month may be a little overkill. It just depends on your usage and what you use your truck for. I grease mine only when I think they need it. That's not once a month under "normal" use.

A sealed unit will be much more resistant to getting the mud and water in in the first place. So I am looking at giving prevention a go rather than attempting to clean it afterwards.

So, if you get stuck in a mud hole or water crossing, you would rather replace the joint rather than grease it? Don't be fooled, the sealed joint is not the end-all joint. It's meant for soccer moms who do not understand what maintenance means.

So the suggestion is to go out of my way to find a uni that has the Zerk in the end to make it easier to grease.

I don't think you have to go out of your way at all. The part numbers have been posted, and auto parts stores carry this item. It's just a matter of buying it.

You just have to be careful with adding guards that they don't cause more issues than what they solve. I rock hits and then leaves again. A bent guard from a rock stays there and keeps on rubbing/hitting the thing that it is suppose to protect. I am not saying that guards are useless. just make sure it properly designed and the risk of it distorting is worth the protection the you are trying to obtain.

In other words, you have no idea the options available and what works and what does not.

From the D2 owners I know, with normal use, including some off-road, the sealed units tend to last 100,000 to 130,000 miles. Off course there are always exceptions and I have known ones to last only 4,000 miles along with greasable ones on the same trip.

Really? I call bullshit again. Getting 100k out of even a daily driver wold be a feat. Search "busted transfer cases" on D2's. I t was really really common. 100's of t-cases went to scrap due to busted u-joint that sent the drive shaft flying into the t-case. This was happening WAY before the 100k mile mark.

[brian4d]

I think I started the best thred ever! Hank, I'm going to PM you about differnet brands later this week. Thanks for your input, and everyone else for that matter!!!

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 1hank1

This is really not correct. Blah, Blah, Blah.

Everyone can look up Hank's posts and you will see that he only posts to attempt to have a go at me. 90% of what he states is just shit.

Most D2's will get 100,000 miles plus out of a prop shaft. A new one is not cheap, but not much more expensive than many long life components on your car.

A prop shaft assembled in the factory with Uni joints can have better tolerances, etc, that one assembled in a mechanics workshop. Therefore such units offer better durability. Landrover list the top uni as a replaceable unit but not the double cardon.

Unless you are anal with your maintenance and greasing unis, a sealed unit will most likely last you longer.

Basic design of a greasable unit is that it has to allow the grease out past the seals when you grease it. Otherwise you will simply blow the seals out when you grease it. Why being designed to let grease out they are effectively designed to let mud and water in. They rely on you greasing them to get it back out again. A sealed unit is designed to keep the grease in the unit and therefore has better tolerances to keep water and mud out.

It is only fools like Hank that feel the need to knock any changes to a vehicle as being the cause of failures. As stated previously I have seen many greasable units fail quicker than sealed units on D2. In regard to the damage they can cause, for some reason the transmission does not seem to notice whether it is a sealed or greasable unit that hits it.

[CaptainRuss]

Good lord, Boob, where do you get this crap from? Do you just make it up as you go?

[brooksa]

[brian4d]

Alright, Alright - - - Do we have any insurance adjusters that have access to their database. Insurance companies collect the most information about cars, trucks, boats whatever and collect reliability data from around the world. If some here works in the insurance industry and has access to this type of information we can put this thread to rest..... The truth be known, I see D1's and D2's driving around here all the time and they aren’t even members here or anywhere else for that matter, have they had U-joint issues??? The adjusters know!

[2Discos95-00]

I joined this forum at about 117k miles...i learned about this u joint problems then and at 128K I finally replaced them...to sealed ones. So i got 128K on the originals...that "60k borrowed time" didnt apply to me. That greasing shit every oil change "or sooner" is a waste of time for people with lives outside the garage. See: Family time.

Just my two cents.

[brian4d]

Good to know there is someone out there that doesn't perfer "the garage" with 128k on their Rover, Made my day.

[1hank1]

As stated previously I have seen many greasable units fail quicker than sealed units on D2

I bet they have 10-spline axles and lockers, too.

[ArmyRover]

Nope ad blocker plus 69 splines with a mini spool

I just pumped the mud and crap from this weekend outta my uj's this afternoon gotta love greaseable uj's.

[p76rangie]

Originally Posted by 2Discos95-00

I joined this forum at about 117k miles...i learned about this u joint problems then and at 128K I finally replaced them...to sealed ones. So i got 128K on the originals...that "60k borrowed time" didnt apply to me. That greasing shit every oil change "or sooner" is a waste of time for people with lives outside the garage. See: Family time.

Just my two cents.

Agree totally.

I have not said that greasable units are no good, just maybe not the best option for most people.

Even if you say that greasable units will last 20% longer than sealed units (even though there is no evidence of this) you might save $10 every 7 to 8 years by having greasable unis. To save this you have to get underneath every month or so and grease the suckers. Over that 7 to 8years you will spend over $20 in grease and there is the cost of the grease gun, etc.

It would appear that some people just have nothing better to do.

I notice that the usual knockers are here again. Never have anything to contribute except attempting to knock what someone else says. They get pretty good at this as they managed to knock what you say without actually listing an opinion of their own or being specific about what they reckon you said was wrong.

Seeing this is the D2 section we can actually have a survey as to how long the drive shafts last. So far we have a couple that lasted more than 100,000 miles, none that have lasted less than 60,000 miles. So lets hear from those that have replaced them or those that have more than 60,000 miles on the clock and have not replaced them. Lets deal in facts rather than stupid comments from fools.

[1hank1]

Well, I searched for all of 10-seconds and found this. I'm sure I could find many more if I felt the need to actually look. I'm sure others will chime in.
Broken drive shaft - DiscoWeb Message Boards

What you fail to understand, Ian, if that it's not only grit and grime that kills the u-joints. The Double Cardon shaft sits directly between two catalytic converters which gets very hot. These converters 'basically' boil the grease. Boiled grease, or even grease thats seen high temps, is not worth a shit - often referred to as burnt grease.

I guess one thing that's not common knowledge is if it's the actual u-joint that causes shaft failure on the D2. It very well could be the center kit going bad and placing additional stress on the u-joints. We may never know, really. That's why it only makes sense to get under your truck every-so-often and grease the joints. I have a D2 shaft in my D1 and I even take a syringe and grease the center kit. It's just common sense stuff. It takes 2-minutes to do the front and rear shaft.

For the morons who do not service their own vehicle, if the mechanic does not see a grease zirk on the drive shaft, that drive shaft is probably going to get zero attention. But, if there is a grease zirk and you have a halfassed mechanic, your u-joints may (should) get greased. That's only going to add addition life to your drive shaft.

Even if you say that greasable units will last 20% longer than sealed units (even though there is no evidence of this) you might save $10 every 7 to 8 years by having greasable unis. To save this you have to get underneath every month or so and grease the suckers. Over that 7 to 8years you will spend over $20 in grease and there is the cost of the grease gun, etc.

Well Ian, if $20.00 is going to break your bank, I'm sorry. But I'd rather spend $100.00 on grease than spend 10-minutes on the side of the road removing a drive shaft that has a bad u-joint.