LR3 for Overland Travel

[jimbiram]

I believe biggest issue with LR3 and all the modern rovers is the inability to mod the vehicles significantly to improve clearance and performance. I love the air suspension, as it makes for quite a comfortable ride, both on and off road. True, the electronics present a vulnerability, but if one didn't trust electronics, you wouldn't have the web, computers, telephone systems, cell phones, etc.

Look, I am a realist, and know that the electronics present a vulnerability in the vehicles. However time will iron out the issues that plagued the first couple of years. I believe the future of off roading as well as all technologies will include more and more electronics, and that as the weaknesses are found in the systems, they will be improved to improve the reliability.

I do with the Defenders could be sold here in the states. We would all enjoy the improvements that LR has done to that vehicle. But I have no problem taking my LR3 into the wilderness for days.

It is good that this kind of discussion can take place where so many thoughts and points can come together. My only point in speaking up is that I don't want to see the LR3 tossed out of the potential for extended vehicles just because of the fear of the electronics.

Cheers....

[ArmyRover]

Originally Posted by jimbiram

True, the electronics present a vulnerability, but if one didn't trust electronics, you wouldn't have the web, computers, telephone systems, cell phones, etc.

Big difference is none of those items if shorted or fried will leave you in the middle of no where to walk 1 to 300 miles to civilization.

Originally Posted by jimbiram

Look, I am a realist, and know that the electronics present a vulnerability in the vehicles. However time will iron out the issues that plagued the first couple of years. I believe the future of off roading as well as all technologies will include more and more electronics, and that as the weaknesses are found in the systems, they will be improved to improve the reliability.

Yes they do present a vulnerability and on a expedition for a few weeks in the middle of nowhere isn't where you work it out. He's talking about doing things soon not 10 years from now when these systems have been improved. If my electronics fail I just have fuel injection and abs. The EFI could be a problem but has had an excellent track record of being reliable. The ABS who gives a crap if it works, hell mine hasn't in 7 years. It will likely be broke when she goes to RRC heaven or I sell her off to make way for a p38 on coils or a RRC LWB.

Originally Posted by jimbiram

I do with the Defenders could be sold here in the states. We would all enjoy the improvements that LR has done to that vehicle. But I have no problem taking my LR3 into the wilderness for days.

The wilderness is one thing but weeks away is another.

Originally Posted by jimbiram

My only point in speaking up is that I don't want to see the LR3 tossed out of the potential for extended vehicles just because of the fear of the electronics.

Cheers....

I'm glad you like your suv and stick up for it. It just lacks to many qualities that an expedition vehicle should have. It's not just the electronics, limited suspension travel no ability to lift for larger tires. Air bags that can pop or be torn on any number of things in the wilderness. Like that big ass stick I pulled out of my coil after it got jammed in there. Electronics that have been shown on this and other forums to die for odd reasons, or for as simple as water immersion. That's not a good thing. The LR3 is a good suv and it can wheel but I wouldn't want to depend on it like you have to in the middle of no where. I'll stick with the proven reliability.

[antichrist]

The other consideration for electronics is that they eventually wear out, no matter how reliable they are.
I can get on the phone and in one day have a brand new diff for my 46 year old Land Rover. Or any other part I might need for it. How likely do you think it will be in 2054 to be able to order up any part you need for an LR3? In particular the electronics.

In the same vein as my comment on using an LR3 for the OP's needs, there's no way I'd make such and undertaking depending on a GPS to know where I am. I'd take one with me to use, but I'd never bet my life on it.

[HOUM_WA]

My only problem with the "anti-LR3/electronics" argument presented above is this:

We are talking about an expedition. If there is a problem during that course, the objective is to make it out (get home). The vast majority of the electronics on the LR3 and other modern Rovers are not related to the must-have parts of the car. If the EAS goes out, big deal...so you're stuck at normal height...take better lines. If Terrain response goes out, big deal...you still have a locking center diff (and rear diff). The electronic parking brake has a manual release.

Last I checked the engine and transmission were not made of PC boards and capacitors! If the electronics fail, then your high-tech great-traction-getting LR3 has been reduced to a Disco or RRC and you can still get home.

The only electronic gadgetry piece that I would say is crucial is the electronic ignition. I'm not sure how difficult a fix that is, but maybe keep a spare of that component and learn how to change it!

[antichrist]

Originally Posted by HOUM_WA

If the EAS goes out, big deal...so you're stuck at normal height...take better lines.

Not always an option. What's the effect of a punctured air bag?

If Terrain response goes out, big deal...you still have a locking center diff (and rear diff). The electronic parking brake has a manual release.

Don't even get me started on the stupidity of a parking brake that fails in the "on" position.
If you've used all the electronic traction aids to get you in, you're pretty much fucked if they aren't available to get you out.

On top of that, I'm guessing that most people with ETC and HDC aren't going out and doing a lot of off-roading without using them, to learn how to drive when they aren't available. I could be wrong on that, but human nature being what it is, I doubt it.

[HOUM_WA]

Hmmm....can't speak for everyone, but I turn HDC off all the time on ice, and quite often otherwise; it can be annoying. It's nice, on rocks mostly, but certainly not essential. The low-gearing of 4-LO is enough, the HDC is just icing...and besides, we're debating the merits of the vehicle, not the habits of the drivers. ETC is also not necessary.

I just note that the arguments above mostly knock the LR3 for the (electronic) things that it has above and beyond the Disco or RRC. Taking those things away (by failure?) does not make it WORSE than the other rigs, but at least equal.

I don't know the effect of a punctured air bag, but I'm guessing they're pretty well protected. What's the effect of a snapped leaf spring? How about a coil spring that (somehow) breaks? None of those 3 things are electronic...so you're deviating from the original argument.

As for being f*cked getting out of a location that you got in using the aids....I honestly don't think that the aids help that much that they'd be able to get you into a place that you wouldn't otherwise be able to get into. Like I said before, they're just nice. The things the LR3 has going for it, IMO, are these:

1. Decent gear ration in Lo (2.93:1)
2. Two locking differentials
3. Decent wheel travel (I think) at 10" front, 13" rear

That will get you in and out of places; ETC and HDC and all that stuff just makes it a little easier and/or more comfy!

[ArmyRover]

Refresh my memory isn't there a bunch of wiring underneath that goes to that rear locker?

Also isn't there a exposed air compressor under there as well for the suspension?

Oh and if you lose the active suspension sometimes they go to access mode that would be fun.

RRC/Disco don't have leaf springs never have. Hit something hard enough to snap a coil you probably broke something more important anyways.

I've seen a airbag fail on the trail. Your new suspension is your bump stop. Those air bags are no more protected than a standard spring.

the lr3 is a great suv that has some off road prowess. Just to much garbage that can't be user fixed to go on a expedition. That seems to be what most of the LR3 defenders are forgetting we're not talking a dealer sponsored off road day or MAR. We're talking about an expedition heading into the Artic Circle or the jungles of South America.

I don't know about you guys but I haven't seen to many Polar bears or penguins running around with a test book.

[HOUM_WA]

Okay and if you lose your rear locker...what then? Does a RRC have a rear locker (stock)? Do all Discos have a CDL even?

I'm saying that you lose a lot if the electronics go out; but not so much that it makes the vehicle as bad as the anti-LR3 types above state.

Let's face it; both parties are just biased.

[ArmyRover]

who buys a vehicle for expedition use and leaves it stock. Oh and that rear locker isn't a standard option either it's an extra $625 for the Electronically Controlled, Infinitely Variable Locking Rear Differential last I checked a disco or RRC could have a locker for the same cash. No electronics to fail. They do throw in a full size spare as part of that cost but a disco and RRC come with that standard lol.

On top of that we can throw in $49,925 for the LR3 with that as it's only non standard option. You can build one hell of a RRC or disco for that price.

Biased? Nope there a good truck for wheeling ask Sideview on here she wheels the hell out of her LR3. Wheeling and expedition use are two different worlds. I'll stick with simple and reliable for that.

[HOUM_WA]

I can see your point, simpler may be better for a real long voyage....but I wouldn't say that it's a "strong point" per se because you'd have to lose a lot of the electronics before you'd be stranded; and that's what I'm trying to say.

...do you concede that for a one-day trip the LR3 has more capability than a RRC or DII? What about vs. a Defender in terms of traction? (not ground clearance). This is more of a curiousity question than an argumentative one.

[Rovin4life]

actually a german company makes an four thousand dollar piggyback installation to keep the air suspension at its highest for over 30 mph,

Here in Australia we routinely run ARB bullbars with winches and dual rear tires mounted on the back along with LR snorkels and either goodyear mtr, cooper mtr, general grabbers mtr. But since the vehicles are diesel without the addition of evap systems we pull out the spare wheel and put in an additional fuel tank. But then again the diesel has its own problems in itself. We also have basic s models with coil springs and a locking center differential but thats about all. no terrain response. But the coil spring ones do sit lower then the air ride. oh and the occasional wind blockers that are huge compared the us kind. And of course the gerry can thats not plastic to fit on top of the rack.

oh nad you dont need 31s or 32s. They make the offroad tires in 18 and 19. and they wont rub. the 31s are impossible as the brakes need at least 17 inche wheel spoke or else it scraps bad.

[antichrist]

Originally Posted by HOUM_WA

...do you concede that for a one-day trip the LR3 has more capability than a RRC or DII? What about vs. a Defender in terms of traction? (not ground clearance). This is more of a curiousity question than an argumentative one.

Now who's deviating from the OP? Why are you bringing in something completely unrelated to the question asked?

For the record, I'm not anti LR3. It's not for me, but I don't care if other people drive them. To each their own. But the question was about using one for a multi-week expedition, and I stand by my statements. Also, both broken leaf srpings and broken coil springs can be repaired in the field. In any case, a sharp stick won't break a leaf spring or coil spring.

Originally Posted by Rovin4life

actually a german company makes an four thousand dollar piggyback installation to keep the air suspension at its highest for over 30 mph,

In places where ride height really matters I doubt you'll be doing over 30 very often.

oh nad you dont need 31s or 32s. They make the offroad tires in 18 and 19. and they wont rub. the 31s are impossible as the brakes need at least 17 inche wheel spoke or else it scraps bad.

I didn't know about that. Well, there's another reason to not use an LR3. Depending on where the OP is traveling, 17" and larger tires might be very difficult to find, not to mention expensive as hell.

[hiserote]

I own a 2006 LR3. I live in Utah and I have taken my 2006 LR3 down to Moab, Utah if any of you fellow people know where that is. Moab has some of this country's most unholy terrifying trails people have even driven. Trails the LR3 was never made to do! However that has not stopped me from going down there 3 times already this year.

I am proud to say I have completed 6 trails in the LR3 and have not had one problem. This may be due to taking the correct lines, usuing the correct throttle and several other factors. Most times when something goes wrong its more often or not the person who pushed the truck beyond its limits.

I believe Land Rover designed the LR3 to be more capable than any other of its previous predecessors, especially for expedition type travels. As for a daily driver you can not DO ANY better than the LR3 over the older rovers and Land Rovers go!!!!

But technology or not. If your 4 days out and your in a D1 and drop a Dive line or shred an axle, your going to be no better off than me in my LR3 with a busted computer. We will both be stuck. But at least I'll be able to watch a movie in my back seat waiting for help...LOL

[ArmyRover]

Actually on a major trip like that I have the tools and a spare set of axles in the back and we're still talking a weekend trip with moab, yes any rover owner worth his salt knows about moab. The OP stated expedition. To most of us that is as previously stated time and time again artic circle south america etc.. Where you may not be able to get that computer help but you can find a old rover axle.

Oh and FYI with LT230 or the BW transfer case you can drive with a broken axle no problem or even a blown diff. Ask me how I know

[antichrist]

Originally Posted by hiserote

I believe Land Rover designed the LR3 to be more capable than any other of its previous predecessors, especially for expedition type travels.

I haven't seen anyone deny that the LR3 is capable, when all the electronic traction aids are working.
MOAB is hardly an expedition.

Originally Posted by ArmyRover

The OP stated expedition.

People can get very defensive with someone thinks their vehicle isn't the be all and end all. Then they just ignore what the original question was.