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Old 11-01-2009, 08:16 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Question on Traction Control

I am a newbie to Land Rovers and to this site so forgive me if I am asking something that is obvious.

I searched this forum but I could not find a detailed explanation of why the LR does require one to disable the TCS when in sand or loose surfaces.

In my other 4WD's I have a switch that disables the TCS while maitaining stability control. According to my LR3 manual, the Rover is exactly the oposite-- the DCS disables the stability but the ETC is always on.

How can this be? You need some wheelspin in some conditions. If TCS is on, how does one get the wheels to spin? Also it would seem the brakes would overheat on loose ground as the ETC would constantly be putting the brakes on the spinning wheel.

Is the Rover TCS different from other TCS?

I am very confused.

Ken
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Old 11-01-2009, 04:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You're right...The Land Rover is different from other trucks...its smarter. Each mode of Terrain response tells the computer to allow different amounts of wheel spin, throttle and brake response, etc.

For example, the "silt, sand mode" allows for maximum wheel spin at high revs. In "Rock crawling mode", there is little to no wheel spin for maximum traction and control at low speeds...the computer even adjusts the throttle and brake response. Play around with it and see what I'm talking about.

The traction control works great when going over rocky terrain since it will put power to which ever wheel has the traction. It has helped me get up and over some crazy obstacles...just by giving it gas and letting the system do the work.

DSC is a different system, its my understanding that it controls the vehicle from sliding out or fishtailing in ice and really slick conditions...I don't ever turn it off, even in hard wheeling conditions...have never seen a need to.

You should go out and play in the snow or in the mud to test it out. That's the only way to learn what each mode really does.
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Old 11-01-2009, 05:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rippin'AV View Post
You're right...The Land Rover is different from other trucks...its smarter. Each mode of Terrain response tells the computer to allow different amounts of wheel spin, throttle and brake response, etc.

For example, the "silt, sand mode" allows for maximum wheel spin at high revs. In "Rock crawling mode", there is little to no wheel spin for maximum traction and control at low speeds...the computer even adjusts the throttle and brake response. Play around with it and see what I'm talking about.

The traction control works great when going over rocky terrain since it will put power to which ever wheel has the traction. It has helped me get up and over some crazy obstacles...just by giving it gas and letting the system do the work.

DSC is a different system, its my understanding that it controls the vehicle from sliding out or fishtailing in ice and really slick conditions...I don't ever turn it off, even in hard wheeling conditions...have never seen a need to.

You should go out and play in the snow or in the mud to test it out. That's the only way to learn what each mode really does.
Thanks for the info. I can't wait to try it out when we go skiing this year.

This is the wife's baby so I will likely never take it on a trail like Uwharrie to see what it can really do offroad.

It seems like the DSC is pretty much the same as what I have on my other trucks, but I can't quite figure out why my manual recommends turning it off in some loose conditions.

It sounds like the DSC never caused you problems off road.

One thing, since you can't turn off the TCS, I guess you can never smoke the tires in an LR3---- I guess this sort of thing is not very fitting of a Land Rover anyway.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:18 AM   #4 (permalink)
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DSC can cut power from the engine sometimes when you need it most. Turning it off can help in some situations where you wouldn't want that. I typically turn mine off off-road.
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:14 AM   #5 (permalink)
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DSC can cut power from the engine sometimes when you need it most. Turning it off can help in some situations where you wouldn't want that. I typically turn mine off off-road.
I agree. Conventional LR3 wisdom says turn DSC off in serious off road situations. The owner's manual also mentions this in the section on DSC.

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Old 11-03-2009, 10:23 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Ditto...and I'm not sure but is there any association between the DSC and the TC? Would disabling DSC modify the sensitivity of the TC system?
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Old 11-03-2009, 11:33 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I think there is association between DSC & ETC, along with ETC behavior changes in different TR modes.

Here's a bit from tech docs describing the difference & relations with the two, although I get a little lost in parts in the explanation lol, it seems turning off DSC also disables the engine torque control part of the TC, so I'd guess the TC wheel spin control remains which would vary in behavior depending on TR mode. But then it's never fully off-off

DSC
DSC uses the brakes and powertrain torque control to help maintain the lateral stability of the vehicle. While the ignition is
on the DSC function is permanently enabled unless selected off by the DSC switch. Even if DSC is deselected, driving
manoeuvres with extreme yaw or lateral acceleration may trigger DSC activity to assist vehicle stability.

DSC enhances driving safety in abrupt manoeuvres and in understeer or oversteer situations which may occur in a bend.
The ABS module monitors the yaw rate and lateral acceleration of the vehicle, and the steering input, then selectively
applies individual brakes and signals for powertrain torque adjustments to reduce understeer or oversteer.

In general: in an understeering situation, the inner wheels are braked to counteract the yaw movement towards the outer
edge of the bend; in an oversteering situation, the outer wheels are braked to prevent the rear end of the vehicle from
pushing towards the outer edge of the bend.

The ABS module monitors the tracking stability of the vehicle using inputs from the wheel speed sensors, the steering
angle sensor and the yaw rate and lateral acceleration sensor. The tracking stability is compared with stored target data
and, whenever the tracking stability deviates from the target data, the ABS module intervenes by applying the appropriate
brakes. On vehicles with an automatic transmission, when the DSC function is active, the ABS module also signals the
Transmission Control Module (TCM) to prevent gear shifts. If necessary, the ABS module also signals:

- The ECM, to reduce engine torque.
- The transfer box control module, to adjust the locking torque of the center differential.
- The rear differential control module, to adjust the locking torque of the rear differential.

The DSC function overrides the differential locking torque requests from the terrain response system.

ETC
ETC attempts to optimize forward traction by reducing engine torque or braking a spinning wheel until it regains grip.

ETC is activated if an individual wheel speed is above that of the vehicle reference speed (positive slip) and the brake
pedal is not pressed. The spinning wheel is braked, allowing the excess torque to be transmitted to the non spinning
wheels through the drive line. If necessary, the ABS module also sends a high speed CAN bus message to the ECM to
request a reduction in engine torque. Torque reduction requests are for either a slow or fast response: a slow response
requests a reduction of throttle angle (4.0L and 4.4L only); a fast response requests an ignition cut-off (4.0L and 4.4L) or a
fuel cut-off (2.7L Diesel).

When the DSC function is selected off with the DSC switch, the engine torque reduction feature is disabled.

On vehicles with an automatic transmission, when the ETC function is active the ABS module also signals the TCM to
prevent gear shifts.
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