Beware independent tire shops

[Series 3 guy]

Originally Posted by SCSL

I disagree w/ the general advice about having all work done at dealership. This is expensive advice. Having tires put on at dealership? There are plenty of independent LR & general 4x4 shops that have excellent reputations in the local 4x4 community that can work on LRs. The dealership will charge you more per labor hour than anyone,,,and will upcharge you on all parts vs. what you could buy yourself (genuine or after-market) on line.

Clearly you had a problem w/ this shop but I think most would argue w/ the blanket advice, unless they had unlimited funds. Furthermore, the dealerships have stopped doing any off-road (or non-stock) mods for liability reasons so they are not an option for mods that you can't do yourself.

On a side note, you would probably be better off putting coil springs into your Rover than replacing the air bags anyway based on their track record of longevity.

HERE!!!HERE!!! I couldnt agree more. If I wanted someone from "Ford" to fit my Land Rover tyres I would take it to a Ford Dealership(Stealership). No one that knows a Land Rover Dealerships "Quality" of work would ever realy go there. I wouldnt trust a dealship to clean out my cat box more a less change my tyres.Last time I went to a Dalership they charged me for parts they never changed.(i.e Fuel and oil filters)
Seriously go to an indy shop where the real pro's are. Enthusiasts helping enthusiast is where the love is.Dealerships are for chumps and warranty claimants.Even then there are some indy shops with LR factory certified techs that wont bone ya when your back is turned even during warranty work. Am I bitter about dealership theives... F**K yes I am.

Sorry...I am going for my Beer now.

[DiscoTex]

Originally Posted by TerryS

Why didn't YOU tell them, or disable the EAS when you took it there? How would they know to refuse the work, if you didn't explain that the car had an air suspension.

+1


You know what they say about assuming... To be honest, you should have slapped yourself across the face after this. How the fawk can you expect just some random shop to know? YOU know you have EAS, YOU know that it needs to be turned off, so why didn't YOU tell them?

live and learn.

[keptin]

Originally Posted by Mr Tj

Problem comes from having all 4 bags lisfted full-extension at the same time on a swing-arm lift which was placed under the suspension members. Not something that occurs naturally (unless you drop vertically from a high height, even coming off a dune you come down at an angle).

hehe...you mean like this:

<See Avatar>

I am with SCSL and others.....I dont think all work should be done at the dealer...I actually think most can be done by yourself or by others, at least rover independent shops. Plus, we have all heard about how much a dealer can screw you, not just on prices, but when stuff happens like vehicles falling off of lifts (dweb thread a while back), etc. Shit happens.....I would never think that raising all of the wheels would bust the air bags.....actually, I would think the shocks would stop them from overextending.....like others said, they were probably ready to go anyway. Now that they are busted, dont bother getting new ones, upgrade to springs IMO.

[RageRover]

Man that sucks dude! This is why I don't usually let any other shop mess with my car, unless it is out of my ability to fix it, like pulling codes from the computer. I couldn't do that with out an expensive piece of equipment i would need for only one use. Like the problem with my ignition where I stripped the spark plug hole on my RRC, like a dumbass. :embarrassment: I fixed that problem myself. Or if I'm doing a lift to my Rover, I will lift it to my furthest extent where I can't figure it out, which should not be a problem.

If there is one place I trust to repair my Rover, it would be the dealership. Sure it maybe expensive, but you know the technicians there will have knowledge mostly on Land Rovers a the chance of a f$ck-up like in your incident, will be to a minimum.

Amen! Hopefully this won't happen again, man. Ouch.

[Muddy Oval]

Of course, a dealer technician used an impact wrench to install the wheels on my G4. I bent the stock lug wrench trying to get the first one off, so we then snapped off the end of a MAC breaker bar before taking a huge impact wrench to them to get them off. Even THAT struggled with it.
Dealer techs are like anywhere else- a few give a sheeyit, but most don't.
I really like how after waiting 9 hours for my truck to get a battery and one spark plug wire replaced, they stuck the new battery in the trunk in a bag and set the new plug wire on the seat after I told them to isntall the wire so I can have the spare back. THAT is the kinda crap one comes to expect. Anyway- we're dealer bashing which is a little off topic.
We put P38's on the lift regularly and are careful to turn off the EAS so it doen't react and we reseat the bags- but if the bags were worn out to begin with, it seems kinda like a scam to "lawyer" your way into new ones.

[RageRover]

I guess I see your point. It all depends on who you know and how well they are at what they do. I mean, isn't that their career? I know someone will make a mistake once in a blue moon, but it is to a point, right?

[Muddy Oval]

I guess it depends- I'd never take a Rover to ANY shop that isn't familiar with them. I've had tyres installed and the typical 'crap' places, but I tell them it's in their best interest to use a floor jack. PepBoys jacked up my DI once by setting the lift pads on the rear trailing links... THAT was a super-turbo-stupid move that anyone in their right mind would have known not to do. But to expect them to know every quirk of every vehicle is maybe a tad much- but the fact remains that it would not have damaged bags in proper working order. Maybe unseated them, but that's simple to fix.

[02RhinoRange]

(The following applies to P38 models, and possibly Classics)
~Posted by shupack on RangeRovers.net:

make sure they lift it by the wheels, or axles, not by the frame, as the suspension will dangle on the shocks, and without extra air in the springs they may pop off of thier seats, causing you more problems. other than that the front drive shaft should be just like any other, so any good shop should be able to repair it

~http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/vie...ight=shop+lift

So we should specifically tell an independant shop to use a floor jack or lift the vehicle by the axles correct? Supposidly the shocks are supposed to limit the downward travel, but with all 4 wheels hanging maybe that caused it. The EAS also should be disabled to keep it from trying to autolevel.
To disable the EAS see this article at RangeRovers.net:
http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdet...html#disabling


And about getting wheels/tyres balanced, would anyone recommend independant or stealership? Because I've heard if they don't use the correct tool to align the lug holes up, along with the hub sleeve, then the balance won't be correct.

When you get your wheels balanced, make sure they use the metal fingers that attach to the wheel nut holes on the wheel. Landrover use to have a habit of not have the centre hole on the wheel being the actual centre of the wheel. Therefore a standard wheel balance that connects up through the centre can give an incorrect reading.

~http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/vie...ight=shop+lift

[Adam in NYC USA]

Originally Posted by roverX

I use a small indie tire shop. I took the time to educate them on my rover. The knowledge I have given them now allows them to work on other rovers.

Thank you roverX. If they are honest enough to state they don't know, I thank them and remember them the next time, in a positive sense.

What I don't understand is why they don't know how to lift a 4x4 vehicle properly in the first place when there are so many out there?

BTW, I always monitor all work when I have outside work done. There is always a development with a ten year old truck.

I was the one at the old EMS station that always found the ambulance that was going to have a crash because of leaky or faulty gear. I just did the CDL walkabout (http://drivingrules.net/cdl/cdlsecj/) and check everything about the rig.

Adam in NYC

[texasrover]

This is kind of difficult to read... interesting but difficult. Part of me feels bad about the bags... the other, hell, changing the tires is not freaking rocket science. If you knew the EAS should be disengaged you should have spoke up. I wonder how much of this you know after the fact. They should have done this, or they should have done that... did you really know this before the work was done or did you learn it the hard way, just as they? Then again, taking resposibilty for something is rare these days. If I were the shop owner I would have made a deal with you... maybe converting that thing to springs and splitting the cost and doing the labor for you. With a hand shake and apology. Of course at dinner with my family I would cuss your name! LOL

Any ways

Think about spring conversion... Three weeks is way to freaking long.

[DiscoTex]

Originally Posted by texasrover

If you knew the EAS should be disengaged you should have spoke up. I wonder how much of this you know after the fact.

Originally Posted by Mr Tj

The EAS should have been disabled before they did the work (and they should have refused in any case, since they didn't have a truck lift to do the work properly).

The more I read it, the more it sounds like he did know... dare I say, even a bit premeditated?

I don't know, I just find it baffling that a Rover owner wouldn't have been more anal about this. Hell, I almost got into a fight last time [we got into each other's face] when I got my tires rotated because I told the guy to let me tighten up the lugnuts instead of using the impact wrench, and he thought it was a waste of time. (fawk that, it's my car dammit.)

And you didn't tell these guys that they had to turn off the EAS before putting the Rover on the lift? Call me an asshole, but I'm really not buying the story.

[RudemanRB]

Originally Posted by texasrover

If you knew the EAS should be disengaged you should have spoke up.

From a conversation with the Dealership the EAS on Disco's can not be disengaged. I dunno what model LR he was talking about but the Range EAS can be disengaged. just not the Disco II in short. any LR should never be lifted by the body.

[Disco Mike]

So it isn't really the tire store full responsibility to know handle our trucks. He own the trucks, we should know how to operate them as per their design, and if that means giving the correct socked to use on our lugs or torques specs and lifting procedures that is on us.
I use Discount tire, they use my socket, they know the correct torque specs. and how much air to use.
I did use another well know tire store for years and one day they had a new guy, use the wrong socket on my lugs, he screwed them all up and the store bought me $220 worth of new lug nuts cause I said something.
Mike

[TerryS]

Originally Posted by RudemanRB

I dunno what model LR he was talking about but the Range EAS can be disengaged.

In the Very First Sentence, He says it was a P38A.

I cannot believe this thread came back to life after a year.

I still think of that deadbeat fokker everytime I drive by my favorite (INDY) tire shop.

[Muddy Oval]

Originally Posted by TerryS

I still think of that deadbeat fokker everytime I drive by my favorite (INDY) tire shop.

LOL!!!

There's always people with worn out trucks trying to get their stuff fixed at the blame of someone else.