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How much lift to clear 35x12.50's?

69K views 54 replies 14 participants last post by  OzX 
#1 ·
Howdy,
I'm new to the forum world. I was wondering if anyone new how much lift I need on my 95' Disco, to clear 35x12.50's? I've spent countless hours searching the web, and I haven't found squat. My goal is to run 35's with the smallest amount of lift possible, so as to keep the center of gravity as low as I can. Obviously, I know that I'll need to upgrade my axles, driveshafts, ect... as well as change my gearing, and trim the crap out of my fenders. Thanks!
 
#2 ·
I believe a 3" RTE will work with the proper off set to the wheels.
 
#4 ·
A 3 inch would work but you wouldnt be able to flex at all. I would add in a 1 - 1.5" spacer underneath those 3" coils. That should increase your articulation a little bit.
 
#8 ·
no. 3" and get out the sawsall.


if you're getting into 35" tires then you need to know how important center of gravity. the rule that every serious trail truck, rockcrawler, or just plain smart wheelers follow is "low, wide, and big tires". 3" lift will keep your COG right where it needs to be, get wheel with around 4.75" or 4.5" backspacing to keep the tires out of the radius arms (although a litle rubbing isn't a big deal), and carefully trim your fenders to look good, yet be able to stuff your new tires.

i fit 33s on a 2" lift when people said it couldn't be done. i wheel just fine with a little trimming.
 
#6 ·
a 3" lift with proper trimming is mroe than enough to clear 35s. keep in mind trimming is necessary. oh yeah, and you'll need to compeltely upgrade the drivetrain. first you will blow the spider gears out, then if and when you upgrade to lockers, you will start breaking the axles and CVs. if you want to run 35s, then you either need to swap in stronger axle housings, or upgrade everything, which will cost you a couple Gs.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the info, guys. I already know that I'll have to upgrade the drivetrain extensively to run a tire that size. I won't even try running 35's untill those upgrades are done. Also, I'm thinking I'd rather run 35x10.50's, or maybe 11.50's, instead of 12.50's. I've read that narrower tires tuck into the wheel well better, so I'm hoping that will help a little with articulation. Any thaughts on that? Thanks again!
 
#9 ·
i like the skinnier tire look, but a wider tire really helps with the footprint and conforming to rocks and tree roots, etc.i would go 11.50 if you can find them, but 35X12.5 is far more common and you should be able to find used tires pretty cheap for when you blow one out wheeling.

i missed it, but if this is a DI or RRC, then get the rovertracks toy conversion. Untitled Document

you will be able to easily run 37s if you decide to later, while HD rover stuff (such as what lucky 8 or GBR sells), then they are only "rated" to 35s.
 
#10 ·
Go skinny my friend. A wide tyre like a 12.50 will be of no real benefit on the trail with a full bodied Disco. Even 35" is a bit too tall for these trucks but that depends a lot on what you do to fit them. You don't want to lift it sky high so cutting body panels and running a wheel or spacer that pushes the tyre out from the chassis can help a with that..

A 33x10 is a good size for your disco. Anything bigger than that and you will begin to seriously compromise stability, maneuverability, performance and durability for very little gain. In racing it is called the law of diminishing returns.

Everyone makes a big deal about ground clearance and wants to fit the largest tyres they can in an effort to gain a 1" or 2" but how useful will that be to you, how often do you think you will really need it and what will you sacrifice to get it.

First be realistic. A Discovery is a big heavy SUV with a large rear overhang. On the trial or in the rocks maneuverability is far more useful than big tyres. Unless you want to go for a balls out full time dedicated trail rig and bob tail your Disco the extra width and height will be of little use in the real world.

The few situations that you will likely encounter where a 35x12.50 would be advantageous over a 33x10 can usually be overcome by a combination of driver skill, experience and maneuverability. Remember that traction is more often the deciding factor in a loss of progression, not tire size.

Fitting a locker is actually easier on axle components as it reduces shock loads.

Hope this helps.
 
#12 ·
Go skinny my friend. A wide tyre like a 12.50 will be of no real benefit on the trail with a full bodied Disco.
bullshit.
Even 35" is a bit too tall for these trucks but that depends a lot on what you do to fit them. You don't want to lift it sky high so cutting body panels and running a wheel or spacer that pushes the tyre out from the chassis can help a with that..
it is not too tall for these trucks at all. you just need to know how to put them on the "right" way, which is keeping COG low, trimming the fenders, and running the correct axle shafts, gearing, and lockers. there is a list to be done, but 35s are not too big at ALL.

A 33x10 is a good size for your disco. Anything bigger than that and you will begin to seriously compromise stability, maneuverability, performance and durability for very little gain. In racing it is called the law of diminishing returns.
bullshit, again. you won't compromise stability at all with a 3" lift and 35s. you're going to need to push the tires out, yes, so either spacers, or a wheel with at least an offset or 4.75 or less is in order. once you hit 35s, the trail possibilities grow ten fold. you can go so much further with lockers and 35s than you will with 33s.

Everyone makes a big deal about ground clearance and wants to fit the largest tyres they can in an effort to gain a 1" or 2" but how useful will that be to you, how often do you think you will really need it and what will you sacrifice to get it.
it's the difference between getting over that rock or not. crawlers try to gain every single inch they gain while keeping the rig balanced. ever hear of dana 60 swaps? the diff on a D60 hangs down pretty low, making it an anchor in the rocks. however, it's one of the most bullitproof axles out there, so do you know what they do? they shave 1"-2" off the pumpkin just to gain those few inches. it really comes in handy. and extra inch or two of unsprung ground clearance can mean getting over something or not.
First be realistic. A Discovery is a big heavy SUV with a large rear overhang. On the trial or in the rocks maneuverability is far more useful than big tyres. Unless you want to go for a balls out full time dedicated trail rig and bob tail your Disco the extra width and height will be of little use in the real world.
so are land cruiser 80 series, but people take those things absolutely EVERYWHERE. all the issues you mention can be gotten around with good driving and the right protection.
The few situations that you will likely encounter where a 35x12.50 would be advantageous over a 33x10 can usually be overcome by a combination of driver skill, experience and maneuverability. Remember that traction is more often the deciding factor in a loss of progression, not tire size.
how do you know if he will encounter them or not? all the good, difficult trails around me REQUIRE 35s, at least one locker and a winch. so you have no idea what trails he will be running.

Fitting a locker is actually easier on axle components as it reduces shock loads.
Hope this helps.
not when your axles are made of swiss cheese like rovers. a rover axle is going to have a hell of a hard time holding up to 35s and a locker on multiple trail rides, especially if his driving style is throttle happy.

Obviously running a tire that size would be counter-productive if they hit the firewall, or I can't turn the front's when they're stuft. That's why I'm thinking a narrower tire would be better.

here are some examples of discos and other LR that are the same chassis (same design and components anyways) for you to see. 35s will fit without hitting the fire wall, but some fender trimming is necessary:

35" KM2s. 3" lift and some trimming:




35s. 3" lift. then he got 37s on the same lift a little bit down. it's more modified now and a trail rig "truggy" only. those photos are at the end:



what were you saying about stability? looks stable to me.:rolleyes: he winched out, and didn't flip. who would've guessed?:dunno:
 
#11 ·
Thanks again. I'm thinking of runing the TSL Bias, Q78-16. The website says it runs just over 10.5" wide. I'm hoping to have the money to do the nessesary driveline up grades, and fit my new tires by the time my 265's run out of tread. But if I don't get that far by the time I need new tires, then I'll probably go with 33's. I agree that in most situations you can overcome just about anything with driver skill. As it is, I already have no trouble keeping up with, and usualy "out wheeling" my buddys. Most of them run 33's, and a couple of them run 35's. I do a little bit of everything, but most of my wheeling is on tight trails, and rock crawling. My main concern about running 35's is articulation, and manuverability . Obviously running a tire that size would be counter-productive if they hit the firewall, or I can't turn the front's when they're stuft. That's why I'm thinking a narrower tire would be better.
 
#14 ·
oh look, more 37s on ~3":



drivetrain moved to this truck. guess what? same chassis, so same thing as a discovery:



just a little more lift to fit 40s. look how "unstable" it is. bullshit.





this defender is on 37s and is a daily driver. again ~3" of lift on coilovers:




the higher you go, the wider out your tires must be placed (although not necessarily really wide tires) to counter the heightand give you a stable rig. wider tires will grip rocks better, and give you a much larger contact patch when aired down. contact patch is very important because the wider they are, the more traction you will have, since the tire will be griping more ground.backspacing will only get you so far though. if you really want to get wide, wider axles would be in order. i wouldn't recommend going over 3" lift EVER. those 40s could be fit on a 3" lift, but a lot more modification would be needed. it's all about what you're willing to do.

don't listen to the naysayers. you sound like you know what you need to wheel where you want to wheel. you just need advice on how to fit them.
 
#16 ·
nope. most of those guys live out west. the same guy owns the red disco and green defender. i wheel with the owner of the black disco on 35s, who works at LR knoxville, and the owner of the black disco on 40s lives in north carolina and either used to work with rovertym, or just wheels with those guys a lot. he built that truck to use while his buggy is being built. the disco is for sale for $13,000 now.

here is me. i'm only on 33s right now. she'll get 35s when these wear out in a few years. i only have 16,000 miles on the current tires and they were expensive...:
 
#18 ·
Interesting to see some of those pictures, including a couple from Uwharrie out here in NC (where people from here don't seem to like to go). Anyway as far as running 35"s go both sides of the argument have good points (stated above).

WIDE VS NARROW

This is an underlying thing I see between the 35x12.5 (Wide) and 33x10.5 (Narrow) discussion. Here is a link that goes more in depth but I will summarize it plus add to it:

Expeditions West: Tire Selection for Expedition Travel

- Wide tires don't offer more traction than narrow tires EXCEPT in flotation instances where the wider tires would "float" over the terrain. Deep Mud and Sand being the only instances (snow is debatable). On Rocks, Dirt, Regular Mud, etc that you encounter on trails narrow tires will give more bite due to contact pressure.

- Narrow tires take less to spin and put less stress on the axles, drivetrain etc. Its very simple they have less rolling resistance and weight.

- To protect your vehicle from side damage wider tires do give an advantage. They stick out and will hold your truck up off obstacles. Running a wheel with 4" Backspacing or Less can fix this if you run narrow tires.

I have run 34x12.5 TSLs and 34x9.5 TSLs and can attest that the above is true. The 9.5s grip better, put less strain on my truck, and because I don't have the right backspacing have left my truck open to a lot more side body damage.

REAL TIRE SIZES

Keep in mind when selecting tires they don't measure out to what they advertise as usually. Radial tires usually measure .2" to .3" smaller than what the sidewall says. Most 33" tires are 32.8" or 32.7". Swampers are the exception where they usually measure bigger. 33x12.5" TSLs are actually 33.7", which compared to the 34x10.5 LTB is 33.6". You mentioned Q78 TSLs, which will be my next set of tires (on 15" instead of 16"). Keep in mind they are not 35"s, they are a small 36" at 35.5". I like them because they are narrow and tall, but just remember when planning on lift etc you will be going with small 36"s not 35"s.

TIRES ARE THE ONLY TRUE SOURCE OF LIFT

Tires are the only thing that bring everything up off the ground including your axle clearance. Body lifts raise the body, and suspension lifts raise parts of the suspension, the frame, and the body. Tires lift the axles, body, entire suspension, and frame.

THE AMOUNT OF CLEARANCE NEEDED IS DETERMINED BY THE WHEELING CONDITIONS

Buzzard hasn't posted what kind of wheeling conditions he wants to run these tires on. There is no point in arguing 33"s vs 35"s etc if we don't know what kind of terrain and challenge he wants to put this truck through. If he is doing extreme wheeling with rocks, then yeah he will want 35"s. But he will want the traction aids to go with it, including lockers etc which will include upgrading axles etc. If he does more moderate wheeling with less hardcore stuff 33"s will probably be fine, and will not need as many upgrades to run them. Keep in mind the bigger the tires you run the more likely you are to try harder stuff, which usually means you need bigger tires, more traction aids, etc etc. Its a vicious cycle. ;)

34" TIRES

No one mentioned 34" tires, a happy medium between 33"s and 35"s what I am running now. If you are all ready considering running bias ply Q78s then your 34" options will be good:

34x9.5 TSLs (33.8)
34x10.5 LTBs (33.6)
33x12.5 TSLs (33.7)
34x12.5 TrXuS M/Ts (34.0)

TIRES,LIFT, AND TRACTION

- It doesn't matter how much traction you have if you can't clear the obstacle.

- It doesn't matter how much lift you have if you don't have the traction to get up/through the obstacle

Unless you plan to winch a lot keep the above in mind. As you go bigger in tires and lift you will need to add traction to go with it. And vice versa. The stuff you will be doing on 33"s will require less modifications than what you will be encountering on 35"s.

Not having more information from Buzzard on what kind of wheeling he does/plans on doing there isn't much more to say without getting into specifics. This includes terrain(rocks?), wheeling style (skinny pedal fan?), and budget.
 
#21 ·
Sorry, that picture you posted above was 255/85's on a 2" lift? If so, thats a pretty fricken nice rig man.

What do you think you'll have when you go 35's? Im thinking in the next year or two I'd like to go upto 35's myself, and I'd be curious to know what a good setup might be. :beer:
 
#23 ·
Well I have had a good look at the pictures that micheals has posted and also read his arguments, I'm not impressed. Even though he must have put in a lot of effort looking for pictures of lifted trucks with big tyres on the inter-web. I suppose I could do the same and post up a bunch of pic's with rolled discos or trucks with smaller tyres doing incredible things but really, I can't be bothered.

The picture taken of a disco leaning over to the side and looking "stable". What a joke, just take a close look at that thing! The suspension is all unloaded on the high side and he has his truck hanging out over a cliff, that is one loose rock away from disaster. That is not looking stable, it is looking stupid.

A few pictures of trucks on ramps and fork lifts. The next time I run into a RTI ramp or a fork lift on the trail I will start a thread immediately about how a 35x12.50 tyre is superior to a 33x10.50, but I think I'm safe for now.

A picture of a much modified disco that has evolved into a off road only truggy on 37" tyres, well that would not a full bodied truck then, would it.

A picture of a disco on 35"s tackling a grassy slope in what appears to be someone's back yard and "stability" pictures of trucks on even ground.

A picture of a lifted disco on big meats driving up a trail you could run a stock disco on.

A picture or two of discos with big tyres flexing the rear axle (not really very hard and perhaps a staged 'show off' shot as the huge rock he has his rear wheel on would have high centred the truck had he driven over it forward) yet showing very little articulation in the front axle.

Picture of a Defender and a RRC, they are not a Disco. The body loading characteristics, spring rates and even wheel base (on the defender) are different so lets just compare apples to apples shall we?

I forget the exact picture but a headline advertises that the driver was able to "winch out". In that case would he not have also been able to "winch out" if he had 33s?

Lastly a 'poser shot' of micheals in his rover on a wide track, looking backwards and trying his hardest to lift a wheel but not going anywhere in particular. Not sure what you are trying to illustrate with that one, perhaps the lack of articulation? Or is it that you will be able to get a even more impressive 'poser shot' when you get your 35s, perhaps you could use the afore mentioned "back yard"?

Yes I have seen a shaved Dana axle.........so what? I will see your Dana 60 and raise you a 2 1/2 ton Rockwell or a Volvo/mog portal axle or any one of of any number of custom built high clearance centre sections and differentials. I'm unimpressed by name dropping. It means nothing.

Yes I have seen land rovers with 37" tyres.....OK then, what is your point? I was talking about 33s vs 35s and when exactly did I start talking about coil overs?

The point I was trying to make was that a 35x12.50 tyre has by comparison many drawbacks and has little or no benefit over a smaller, narrower 33x10.50 tyre in the real world.
I said nothing about lifts.
If you think 3" lift is just as stable as a smaller lift or no lift then you really haven't thought that one through properly have you? Don't bring out the old "you have to go with wider axles to compensate" because now you are talking about modifications that are beyond the scope of original question.

I don't know where this guy wheels but unless you know him personally or have some sort of ESP neither do you. He has posted that he often go's out on tight trails with a bit of everything. He also go's on to say that he often already out wheels his buddies that are on 33s with size of tyre he is running currently (275....?) This would lead to a more well rounded tyre choice rather than one with a single purpose in mind.

So I call bullshit on your bullshit.
 
#25 ·
The point I was trying to make was that a 35x12.50 tyre has by comparison many drawbacks and has little or no benefit over a smaller, narrower 33x10.50 tyre in the real world.


So I call bullshit on your bullshit.
I think a 3" lift is plenty for 35s with a lot of cutting, I plan to go this route also. The point is to keep it as low as you can with the the highest amount of ground clearance. As far as there being little or no benefit i am going to call another bullshit on that one. Moving up to 35s will get you where your 33s won't. I love when people cop out and say it is in the driver skill. If you put the same driver in a truck with 35s, the same driver can use his skill to get more places. That is just a stupid comment. Is a lift more unstable than a 2" or stock truck? Yes, but stability is not always the deciding factor in terrain. The articulation in the front of a disco (stock or mildly modified) is not that great anyways. In my old Range Rover I went from 33s to 35s and I was able to choose lines in the "real world" that I could not make with my old 33s. 2" of tire lift is a huge advantage. If you are willing to upgrade your drive line, then you will reap the benefits. So once again, if someone tells you that a 33" tire can go everywhere a 35" tire can go I call bullshit bullshit bullshit!:drive:
 
#24 ·
Most of my wheeling is with my buddies, on trails of medium to high dificulty, or over medium-ish sized rocks. Most of the guys I wheel with are running larger tires than I am (curently 265/75-16's). The trails that I usualy hit have a lot of off camber hillclimbs/decents, and a lot of loose dirt (shallow but slick mud when it rains). I also run into some deeper mud once in a while, but that's not really what I go looking for. On the trails, I almost never have trouble keeping up with, or out performing my buddies, but when we start getting into the rocks, I've often had to pick another route, (which isn't always possible). I've managed not to break anything major, but that's mostly because I'm careful about the kind of rocks I take on. As far as what's been said about traction vs. tire size, I should clarify that my intention is to run 35's in addition to a detroit locker in the rear, and (later on) a truetrac up front. Oh, and I definatly don't have a heavy right foot. A couple of my buddies think that more gas is the answer to every obstical that they come across. I guess it does make sense that if your tires are already spining, you should imidiately press the throttle to the floor...Stupid. Anyway, I hope this helps clear up any questions about what I want the 35's for. Also to clarify, I already decided (a while ago) that I want the 35's (or 35.5" if I go with the Q78). The only reason that I would consider running a smaller tire, like a 33", would be if I didn't have the money to upgrade my drivetrain by the time my current tires wear out. I don't plan on ever installing a roof rack, and like I said, I want to keep the lift as small as possible, so I'm not too worried about stability. If it becomes a problem, I'll do like my sister's Rangie, and cut the roof off and install a soft top! ;) Thanks!
 
#29 ·
I guess I am one of the rare people that cringe at the thought of cutting into my fenders. But it seems people are leaning to cutting and a 3" lift. You are on the right track with the Q78 TSLs. From what I have found (personal experience and talking to guys that have run different sized TSLs) out in the TSL line two tires that grip the hardest are the 34x9.5s and the Q78s. And both come with the most tread at 27/32nds. If you stay off the skinny pedal like you say, you shouldn't have too much breakage issues. You will be very happy where a rear locker and Q78s will get you.
 
#30 ·
OK, so Buzzard has his heart set on 35s. So I guess we should go from there then? Although I still feel that once you pass the 33" threshold on a full bodied disco the benefit of the extra tyre height is diminished because at that point other factors come into play that have nothing to do with tyres that will inhibit trail performance.

That is why you see so many trucks bob tailed, chopped, tray backed and with massive suspension and drive line modifications. At this point you may as well move up to a 37" tyre or larger because once you start playing with the big rigs a 35" tyre is pretty small.

But back to my original posting, you should really consider the skinny tyre over a wider one, especially now you are decided on a 35".
 
#39 ·
Hey michaels, What suspension set up was the guy with the red disco running before he switched to coilovers? Mine is already lifted 3", but I have nowhere near the amount of front articulation that he does in those pic's (thanks for posting those by the way, they were quite helpful). Do I just need longer shocks? Along with extended brake lines and bumpstops? I've already got both sway bars removed, but the articulation in the front still leaves a lot to be desired. Thanks again for all the pics and info.:wave:

Shane
 
#43 ·
Sorry to keep this thread off track, but I just have to clarify. The pictures of the red disco appear to be either behind the rocks or pritchett canyon, both of which were done in my dads 1969 SIIA 88 with 33x9.50's and some plain old springs. So I guess my point is you should run 35s if you want to, and listen to what these guys have said, because I can't see anything wrong with what they told you. Remember that there will always be a bigger rock, you just have to find your happy medium. Lane didn't and that is why he has what's left of a disco sitting in his driveway.
 
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