2A Third Member Swap? - Land Rovers Only

gassner · 10-03-2007, 06:11 PM

For all you series guru's, can I swap a third member from the front of a '63 to the back of a '71? I don't want to spend $600 for a new ring and pinion when I have a spare '63 for parts. The rear one in the '63 is shot just like the '71. Thanks in advance.

pickuprover · 10-03-2007, 10:38 PM

As long as they are both rover diffs, and the same gear ratio.. I do not see a problem.. however.. I have a salisbury rear end, so do not know exactly the differences between a front and rear rover diff.... (my parts catalogue has the same number for both... so.... )

jimfoo · 10-04-2007, 09:43 AM

Yes, as long as you don't have an ENV or Salisbury in back. BUT make sure it has a fill plug on the 3rd member first or you may run into a slight problem.

gassner · 10-04-2007, 10:39 AM

Good call on the fill plug, I will check tonight. This could throw a wrench into things. I could always drill and tap for a plug. I was hoping that this would be easy. OK, I looked at them. Both say Rover and all the axles have fill plugs on the third members (front and rear). The '63 has a piece on the back around the yoke, similar to a 9" with 6-8 bolts. The '71 does not have this piece, it is a solid unit. Has anyone seen this? It may not be a problem. Might be a early model late model thing. Any ideas?

jimfoo · 10-05-2007, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gassner

Good call on the fill plug, I will check tonight. This could throw a wrench into things. I could always drill and tap for a plug. I was hoping that this would be easy. OK, I looked at them. Both say Rover and all the axles have fill plugs on the third members (front and rear). The '63 has a piece on the back around the yoke, similar to a 9" with 6-8 bolts. The '71 does not have this piece, it is a solid unit. Has anyone seen this? It may not be a problem. Might be a early model late model thing. Any ideas?

It is probably a later model as I don't think they had the removable seal housing.
I just remember swapping a front once where the diff cover was the only fill plug, and didn't realize it until everything was buttoned back up in the rear and I tried filling it with oil.

Greg S · 10-06-2007, 01:44 PM

They swap just fine. Both will be 4.7 to 1.

If you ever come across a rear 3rd member that doesn't have a fill plug it means someone swapped it from the front, some don't have the fill plug on the front. Don't worry a lot. There is a fill /drain hole at each axel that most people don't know about. It dissappeared at some time during the series 3 years. There are 5 wheel studs. The drive flange has 6 bolt holes. One of those 6 holes lines up exactly in the middle between two of the 5 wheel studs. The bottom of this bolt is cross-bored to fill or drain the hub which, in turn, fills the axle. I use this drain when ever taking off the hub. I turn it to 6 o'clock, push the handhold of a plastic shopping bag over the hub (a shopping bag with no holes in the bottom of it) and drain the oil into the bag before removing the drive flange. It also is an easy way of topping up the axle without crawling under with one of those stupid 1 qt squeeze bottles of gear lube.

gassner · 10-08-2007, 10:22 AM

I got the third member out of the '63 and it looks ok. I did notice that the thrust washer on the spider gear is worn out, there were pieces in the case. I would like to change the washer since it is only $5.00 but I am not positive about setting the rearend back up. It still can't be as sloppy as the one in the '71, I can go under it with the transfer case in neutral and turn the rear driveline 45 degrees back and forth. This rear end has been like this since the early 80's so there is no urgency in changing it, the only reason I considered it is because when you shift or push in the clutch it makes a clunk. U-joints are good. Decisions, decisions!

Greg S · 10-09-2007, 10:59 PM

Likely that not all that slop is in the Diff. It will also be because of slop at the spline at both ends of the axle. Check the drive flanges for tightness on the axle; you don't fix drive flanges, you replace them because they are so cheap. Wear on the inboard splines is more than likely and if you drive it much with a lot of slop, one or both of the axles are probably close to breaking.

Yes, there is still a lot of slop in the diff too. Have you tried adjusting the side gears to take some of it out?

In your first post you say the diff is shot. Is it just the slop or do you know more?

gassner · 10-10-2007, 08:38 AM

Here is the update. The third member is ok for the most part. When I changed the oil this summer I had a big chunk of the spider gear come out the drain. What I found was that at some point it blew up the third member spider gears, I found gouges in the inside of the housing and the spider gear thrust washer lying in the bottom of the housing. The third member that I removed DID still have the thrust washer in place, so it was rebuilt to some extent. The spider gear carrier had some nicks in it but the ring and pinion are in good shape. I might put a locker in it at some point. Also found both axles in the '71 very worn and the drive flanges both worn, there was no wear in the third member splines. The only issue that i had was that the bolts from the '71 drive flange would not fit through the '63 drive flanges. The shoulder of the newer bolt are just big enough not to fit. I used the '63 third member, drive flanges, drive flange bolts and axles, they have almost no wear. As for the "slop", I think that infact most of it was due to worn axles and drive flanges and not the third member its self. I will put in the driveline and top off the gear oil tonight and see how it is. Just turning the third member by hand with everything installed ot seems WAY better, it turns just a touch not 45 degrees.

TerryS · 10-10-2007, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gassner

As for the "slop", it turns just a touch not 45 degrees.

very normal

gassner · 10-10-2007, 06:11 PM

OK, all done. No "clunking" from rear end, it made a huge difference. In hindsight I think like Greg S said that not all of it was from the diff., 90% was from the worn drive flanges and axles. Also, now I have a fill plug that is 3 times bigger than the one in the original third member. The original one you have to use a tube to fill the third member, the one out of the '63 has a cap that you can just dump out of a quart jug right into the third member. Thanks for the help, you guys rule.

10-03-2007, 06:11 PM	#1 (permalink)
gassner Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: fallon, nv Posts: 8 Gallery: 0	2A Third Member Swap? For all you series guru's, can I swap a third member from the front of a '63 to the back of a '71? I don't want to spend $600 for a new ring and pinion when I have a spare '63 for parts. The rear one in the '63 is shot just like the '71. Thanks in advance.

10-03-2007, 10:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
pickuprover Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,364 Gallery: 0	As long as they are both rover diffs, and the same gear ratio.. I do not see a problem.. however.. I have a salisbury rear end, so do not know exactly the differences between a front and rear rover diff.... (my parts catalogue has the same number for both... so.... ) __________________ Andrew Barr. 1972 Series III 109. "the Tin Turtle" "However, that was his ploy and I caved....totally caved... LOL!" Jellijo

10-04-2007, 09:43 AM	#3 (permalink)
jimfoo jimfoo Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 464 Gallery: 9	Yes, as long as you don't have an ENV or Salisbury in back. BUT make sure it has a fill plug on the 3rd member first or you may run into a slight problem. __________________ Jim Hall “That man has no respect for his Rover and beats the hell out of it every opportunity he gets, taking the most difficult line over each and every obstacle.” Michael 1966 88" 1.9l VW TDI, GT1749V, IC

10-04-2007, 10:39 AM	#4 (permalink)
gassner Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: fallon, nv Posts: 8 Gallery: 0	Good call on the fill plug, I will check tonight. This could throw a wrench into things. I could always drill and tap for a plug. I was hoping that this would be easy. OK, I looked at them. Both say Rover and all the axles have fill plugs on the third members (front and rear). The '63 has a piece on the back around the yoke, similar to a 9" with 6-8 bolts. The '71 does not have this piece, it is a solid unit. Has anyone seen this? It may not be a problem. Might be a early model late model thing. Any ideas? Last edited by gassner : 10-04-2007 at 04:30 PM.

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10-06-2007, 01:44 PM	#6 (permalink)
Greg S Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Duncan, B.C. Canada. Posts: 145 Gallery: 0	They swap just fine. Both will be 4.7 to 1. If you ever come across a rear 3rd member that doesn't have a fill plug it means someone swapped it from the front, some don't have the fill plug on the front. Don't worry a lot. There is a fill /drain hole at each axel that most people don't know about. It dissappeared at some time during the series 3 years. There are 5 wheel studs. The drive flange has 6 bolt holes. One of those 6 holes lines up exactly in the middle between two of the 5 wheel studs. The bottom of this bolt is cross-bored to fill or drain the hub which, in turn, fills the axle. I use this drain when ever taking off the hub. I turn it to 6 o'clock, push the handhold of a plastic shopping bag over the hub (a shopping bag with no holes in the bottom of it) and drain the oil into the bag before removing the drive flange. It also is an easy way of topping up the axle without crawling under with one of those stupid 1 qt squeeze bottles of gear lube.

10-08-2007, 10:22 AM	#7 (permalink)
gassner Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: fallon, nv Posts: 8 Gallery: 0	I got the third member out of the '63 and it looks ok. I did notice that the thrust washer on the spider gear is worn out, there were pieces in the case. I would like to change the washer since it is only $5.00 but I am not positive about setting the rearend back up. It still can't be as sloppy as the one in the '71, I can go under it with the transfer case in neutral and turn the rear driveline 45 degrees back and forth. This rear end has been like this since the early 80's so there is no urgency in changing it, the only reason I considered it is because when you shift or push in the clutch it makes a clunk. U-joints are good. Decisions, decisions!

10-09-2007, 10:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
Greg S Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Duncan, B.C. Canada. Posts: 145 Gallery: 0	Likely that not all that slop is in the Diff. It will also be because of slop at the spline at both ends of the axle. Check the drive flanges for tightness on the axle; you don't fix drive flanges, you replace them because they are so cheap. Wear on the inboard splines is more than likely and if you drive it much with a lot of slop, one or both of the axles are probably close to breaking. Yes, there is still a lot of slop in the diff too. Have you tried adjusting the side gears to take some of it out? In your first post you say the diff is shot. Is it just the slop or do you know more?

10-10-2007, 08:38 AM	#9 (permalink)
gassner Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: fallon, nv Posts: 8 Gallery: 0	Here is the update. The third member is ok for the most part. When I changed the oil this summer I had a big chunk of the spider gear come out the drain. What I found was that at some point it blew up the third member spider gears, I found gouges in the inside of the housing and the spider gear thrust washer lying in the bottom of the housing. The third member that I removed DID still have the thrust washer in place, so it was rebuilt to some extent. The spider gear carrier had some nicks in it but the ring and pinion are in good shape. I might put a locker in it at some point. Also found both axles in the '71 very worn and the drive flanges both worn, there was no wear in the third member splines. The only issue that i had was that the bolts from the '71 drive flange would not fit through the '63 drive flanges. The shoulder of the newer bolt are just big enough not to fit. I used the '63 third member, drive flanges, drive flange bolts and axles, they have almost no wear. As for the "slop", I think that infact most of it was due to worn axles and drive flanges and not the third member its self. I will put in the driveline and top off the gear oil tonight and see how it is. Just turning the third member by hand with everything installed ot seems WAY better, it turns just a touch not 45 degrees.

10-10-2007, 06:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
gassner Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: fallon, nv Posts: 8 Gallery: 0	OK, all done. No "clunking" from rear end, it made a huge difference. In hindsight I think like Greg S said that not all of it was from the diff., 90% was from the worn drive flanges and axles. Also, now I have a fill plug that is 3 times bigger than the one in the original third member. The original one you have to use a tube to fill the third member, the one out of the '63 has a cap that you can just dump out of a quart jug right into the third member. Thanks for the help, you guys rule.

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