4cyl motor, SIIA bulkhead into 6cyl SIII chassis?

[jkhackney]

Hello,
The 1969 Land Rover under my Dormobile does not have many good points left on it besides its engine/transmission. Restoration of it seems after much deliberation and consultation to be a fool's errand. I would prefer to rebuild onto a rust-free SIIA if such could be found, my wife prefers SIII (see my first thread).

However there is also an SIII rolling galvanized chassis available locally with body work finished, no engine. It's a stalled resto project offered for a price less than the chassis alone would cost.

My thought was to get this project and put in my 4-cyl drivetrain and my own SIIA bulkhead (after getting it restored), door hinges, grille, etc. to keep the SIIA feeling despite it being a SIII (powerful brakes for example).

I compared the chassis measurements in the 2 green bibles (SIIA, SIII) and it seems the bulkhead outriggers are 6mm further forward on SIII? (relative to line WW, not BB. I hope I have been careful enough comparing them). The other changes needed to get the 4-cyl and transmission in would be:

Motor mount moved back ~60mm
Transmission crossmember moved forward ~88mm
(88 + 60 ~150 cm = 6", the length difference of the engines)
I would also need my old tunnel cover and floors, if this even works at all.

Has anyone put a SIIA bulkhead onto a SIII chassis?
Has anyone put a 4-pot + transmission into a 6-pot chassis?
It seems in my arithmetic like the shift levers should come through the body 88mm further back in a 6-cyl than a 4, relative to a fixed point like the front axle (M + LL + HH in each of the chassis drawings), which isn't right is it?? This could be important even if we simply refit the Dormatic seats to a 6-cyl, since they need to be able to lie flat and flip around without hitting the shifters (though I've been told that this works without problems). Am I missing some information?

Thanks
Jeremy

[onslow]

Originally Posted by jkhackney

Hello,
The 1969 Land Rover under my Dormobile does not have many good points left on it besides its engine/transmission. Restoration of it seems after much deliberation and consultation to be a fool's errand. I would prefer to rebuild onto a rust-free SIIA if such could be found, my wife prefers SIII (see my first thread).

However there is also an SIII rolling galvanized chassis available locally with body work finished, no engine. It's a stalled resto project offered for a price less than the chassis alone would cost.

My thought was to get this project and put in my 4-cyl drivetrain and my own SIIA bulkhead (after getting it restored), door hinges, grille, etc. to keep the SIIA feeling despite it being a SIII (powerful brakes for example).

I compared the chassis measurements in the 2 green bibles (SIIA, SIII) and it seems the bulkhead outriggers are 6mm further forward on SIII? (relative to line WW, not BB. I hope I have been careful enough comparing them). The other changes needed to get the 4-cyl and transmission in would be:

Motor mount moved back ~60mm
Transmission crossmember moved forward ~88mm
(88 + 60 ~150 cm = 6", the length difference of the engines)
I would also need my old tunnel cover and floors, if this even works at all.

Has anyone put a SIIA bulkhead onto a SIII chassis?
Has anyone put a 4-pot + transmission into a 6-pot chassis?
It seems in my arithmetic like the shift levers should come through the body 88mm further back in a 6-cyl than a 4, relative to a fixed point like the front axle (M + LL + HH in each of the chassis drawings), which isn't right is it?? This could be important even if we simply refit the Dormatic seats to a 6-cyl, since they need to be able to lie flat and flip around without hitting the shifters (though I've been told that this works without problems). Am I missing some information?

Thanks
Jeremy

it will all fit fine you will need to move the chassis engine mounts to suit a 4 cyl levers will be in same place as 4 cyl g/box bellhousing is slightly longer than the 6 cyl one you wont need to move any x members you just need the 4 cyl gearbox tunnel.

[jkhackney]

thanks onslow,

have you done a transplant like this or seen it done? (SIIA 4cyl bulkhead--> SIII 6cyl chassis + 4cyl 2.25 --> 6cyl chassis).

a different bell housing length would explain some of the unaccounted for centimeters (how many is it, though?)

i don't follow the rest of your answer entirely, though, because regardless of bell housing, the gearbox crossmember on the 6-cyl frame puts the gearbox and its shifters, as well as in- and output shafts, further back than on the 4cyl. the 4 and 6cyl driveshafts are different part numbers because of this.

this would mean i can't use my 4-cyl tunnel without movign the gearbox. i also wonder if the 4-cyl bulkhead woudl let me move the 2.25 engine so far back (it doesn't look like it). my other concern is the fact that the SIII outriggers are 6mm further forward than on the SIIA 4cyl, so i wonder if 1/4" gaps would show up everywhere behind the bulkhead: doors, floor, etc?

??

[onslow]

Originally Posted by jkhackney

thanks onslow,

have you done a transplant like this or seen it done? (SIIA 4cyl bulkhead--> SIII 6cyl chassis + 4cyl 2.25 --> 6cyl chassis).

a different bell housing length would explain some of the unaccounted for centimeters (how many is it, though?)

i don't follow the rest of your answer entirely, though, because regardless of bell housing, the gearbox crossmember on the 6-cyl frame puts the gearbox and its shifters, as well as in- and output shafts, further back than on the 4cyl. the 4 and 6cyl driveshafts are different part numbers because of this.

this would mean i can't use my 4-cyl tunnel without movign the gearbox. i also wonder if the 4-cyl bulkhead woudl let me move the 2.25 engine so far back (it doesn't look like it). my other concern is the fact that the SIII outriggers are 6mm further forward than on the SIIA 4cyl, so i wonder if 1/4" gaps would show up everywhere behind the bulkhead: doors, floor, etc?

??

Yes indeed you are right as if I rember rightly the 2.6 front prop is longer than the 2.25 version,I have seen plently of 2.25s fitted in 6 cyl chassis.I wouldnt worry about the 6 mm as all series are dimesionally the same ive seen 2a's with s3 bulkheads and vice versa so I know they will fit no probs (inc 6 cyls).

The easiest way to combat your problem is to remove the gearbox x member and get an x military bolt on version (or make your own) and place the 2.25 in the conventional location (if you have it to far back you can get cooling problems due to the fan being to far from the rad) and placing the g box x member in the correct place

[jkhackney]

OK that's what I wanted to hear. Folks around here weren't sure if it could be done at all.

I'd have xmember and motor mount work done for me because Swiss vehicle inspections are ruthless. The mods on the galvanized frame would be immediately evident and I'd have to be ready with my garage receipt to certify that the work was done competently.

If I decide to try this option I'll update the forum. Otherwise we will make the swap to the SIII as described in the other thread, which is my wife's preference. (The decision-making at our house remains a democracy, even though I'd be the one rolling in waxoil every year if we don't go galvanized ).

[RPGreg2600]

Yeah, series 2a and 3 stuff is pretty much interchangeable. Seems like a waste to kill your dormobile for parts though...

[jkhackney]

Originally Posted by RPGreg2600

Yeah, series 2a and 3 stuff is pretty much interchangeable. Seems like a waste to kill your dormobile for parts though...

I'm glad they're so compatible.

Ironically, if I swap the Martin Walter camping stuff onto an SIII and the station wagon stuff onto the ex-Dormobile, I keep 2 Landys alive; if I restore my Dormobile I create one good car and a pile of parts.

The swap to the galvanized chassis is practically a frame-off restoration of the Dormy, only I wouldn't have to swap the body, steering, axles, brakes, most of which would need to be replaced or recodnitioned anyway. All the working IIA pieces would go onto it including the Martin Walter stuff.

The result would be a "like-original restoration" of the Dormobile. Nobody could tell it from a full resto apart from the 3" brakes with booster and the LHD, both of which I think are desirable on a family car. I'm just wondering how much time it would take before I'd be on the road, and what hidden costs are involved. I'm a bit intimidated by installing a bulkhead, never done anything like that before. And I've never installed an engine by myself.

Swapping the Martin Walter to a pristine, original SIII would indeed feel like killing a Dormobile, and there's a chance that truck could rust someday, too.

Jeremy

[RPGreg2600]

What's a Martin Walter?

Swapping the bulkhead is a pretty big job, but nothing you couldn't do in a couple weekends if you didn't go too crazy. Remove the fenders, doors, windshield, and floor boards, remove the dash and disconnect the wiring harness from the bulkhead, disconnect the steering, and clutch line/brake line, unbolt the bulkhead and lift it out (2 people will be plenty to lift it out. Then just set it up next to the other bulkhead and transfer all your parts over to it and bolt it all back in.

[jkhackney]

Originally Posted by RPGreg2600

What's a Martin Walter?

Swapping the bulkhead is a pretty big job, but nothing you couldn't do in a couple weekends if you didn't go too crazy. Remove the fenders, doors, windshield, and floor boards, remove the dash and disconnect the wiring harness from the bulkhead, disconnect the steering, and clutch line/brake line, unbolt the bulkhead and lift it out (2 people will be plenty to lift it out. Then just set it up next to the other bulkhead and transfer all your parts over to it and bolt it all back in.

Sorry for being unclear! Martin Walter is the company that used to make and install the Dormobile parts. I was using that term as a typing shortcut for "the tilting roof, Dormatic seats, gas bottles, and furniture".

Making a 109 into a Dormobile involves drilling appropriate holes and bolting those parts in. The tilting roof just bolts on like a normal roof. Thus the temptation to simply convert a nice SIII to a Dormobile and get on the road rather than mess with chassis swap on my original vehicle.

I saw your other threads so you obviously know what you're talking about wrt bulkheads. I appreciate your answer and find it encouraging. Reading other accounts of it online it seems doable. A systematic approach should work, and debugging my errors (I think unsolvable mysteries is what often kills restorations?) shouldn't be too hard since the rest of the rolling chassis is so clean and new-ish.

-Jeremy