Anyone got time to help out a newbie with a transmission/clutch...

[zed]

I've got to admit i'm a little lost...

I mean.. I basically know what's going on.. but I could use a hand.

Had a slipping clutch.. so I cracked the bell housing open (have an over drive.. so it won't move too far back till I get that off)

The inside of the bell housing .. well everything other than the actual clutch is covered with black gook.. It doesn't feel like grease Kind of gummy.. but its black and sticky. Some places its about 1/8th inch thick. Don't know if its engine or transmission.. and it seems all cars are different in how they get fixed as to seals and bearings.. .. it has a new slave cylinder on it.. maybe its clutch fluid? It doesn't have much of a smell and degreaser doesn't touch it. When I got it on my hands it began to melt into a sticky ooze.

Anyway.. I could really use someone knowledgeable in land rovers to discuss (in private chat/email /phone) how to proceed. I generally turn a wrench pretty well, but I'm not ALL that experienced with it and am a little nervous.

Anyway.. if someone could please..
I'd be appreciated.
Thanks

[jimfoo]

Originally Posted by zed

I've got to admit i'm a little lost...

I mean.. I basically know what's going on.. but I could use a hand.

Had a slipping clutch.. so I cracked the bell housing open (have an over drive.. so it won't move too far back till I get that off)

The inside of the bell housing .. well everything other than the actual clutch is covered with black gook.. It doesn't feel like grease Kind of gummy.. but its black and sticky. Some places its about 1/8th inch thick. Don't know if its engine or transmission.. and it seems all cars are different in how they get fixed as to seals and bearings.. .. it has a new slave cylinder on it.. maybe its clutch fluid? It doesn't have much of a smell and degreaser doesn't touch it. When I got it on my hands it began to melt into a sticky ooze.

Anyway.. I could really use someone knowledgeable in land rovers to discuss (in private chat/email /phone) how to proceed. I generally turn a wrench pretty well, but I'm not ALL that experienced with it and am a little nervous.

Anyway.. if someone could please..
I'd be appreciated.
Thanks

Most likely a combination of clutch dust and oil. Probably best to take it apart, clean everything off and inspect everything. Most likely from the rear main seal, which if I remember right, which I may not, you can replace with the tranny out. You will probably need a new clutch disc, and should replace at least the throw out bearing if nothing else looks warped/damaged.

[zed]

so the rear main can (probably ) be just pulled and a new one tapped back in eh?
I've always had these things leaking but never enough to warrant removal.

SO .. engine hoist from the back to get the tranny out of there.. after I remove seat box?

Its wet in the bell housing.. but it doesn't stink like gear oil. Main was what I was guessing on the way home with the slipping clutch.. but again.. I tinker more than overhaul.. slowly working my way up.
I'll start checking craigs list for an engine hoist.

[jimfoo]

While it is a little more work, if you unbolt the transfer case first, the tranny isn't that terribly heavy to just lift out, unless you have a bad back. At one point in time when my tranny was out, I cut and welded, and made the crossmember removeable so I didn't ever have to screw with the seatbox again.

[zed]

Thanks

I've got a couple questions. Since I've got to wait to get a hoist to properly reposition the transmission...

Can I get the entire transfer case and transmission out as one unit? and if so... any tips on how?

Looks like I can get everything out of the way with an engine hoist and the seat box out of there.. just hoist it and .. if secure enough.. go to work at the back of the engine.. or pull the whole thing out the passenger door.
Its slow going.. i've come down with the flu.. work for 10.. rest for 2 hours...


Reading the manual.. it says the engine must be removed to replace the rear seal. Is that accurate? I'd like to avoid it.. but if it needs to be done... it needs to be done.


And is there a better manual than the ones located at LAND ROVER MANUALS DOWNLOAD
these things are a touch hard to understand.. what the heck is "Hylomar pl 32/m"

[cboy]

Yes, you can remove the tranny/transfer/overdrive as one unit if you take out the seat box. In fact, I just did one earlier today. Use the engine hoist to lift it out the pass door. Took it out to change the throw out bearing and put it right back in. You'll want to support the engine near towards the rear once you remove the tranny since it tends to sit on the cross member. Lift the engine up a little to line it up with the tranny for the re-install.

[zed]

thanks a lot...

How about being able to change the rear main seal (crank) with the engine still in the car and tranny removed.

[jimfoo]

I'm pretty sure it can be done, though looking at the pic, you may have to drop the pan to remove the bearing cap. I told you I forgot exactly what the seal was like, but I remember now. Hylomar is a sealant, available at most any auto parts store. You will probably need a new pan gasket if you drop the pan though.

[zed]

Got everything apart. (found a brand new collapsable hoist for 100 bucks at checker/kragen)

Clutch is hosed.. but NOT oil fouled.
Fly wheel is rusty and pitted.
the input shaft on the tranny is not oily at all.. totally dry. The interior of the housings are grimey.. but apparently not so much as to cause fouling of the clutch.

A closer look at the parts reveals the likely culprit.
There's a groove worn into the pressure plate spring finger things.. that ride the throw-out bearing.

The pressure plate has a couple light blue marks from slipping.. but nothing serious.. especially considering the application. Maybe it was working barely good enough till the rust got at the flywheel. Or maybe all this is from the last 30 miles.. (my drive home and test drives)

the throw out bearing is free spinning and brand new..BUT.. the clutch slave was sticking at half way. I was able to push it back in by hand... but it was stuck a bit. It was NOT new as claimed by PO.
I attached some macro shots for entertainment and commenting purposes

Curious as to what people think of the flywheel. They apparently aren't made anymore? am I s.o.l.? My neighbor says "build-up and re-surface"

[zed]

By the way. I figured out the failure.

The immediate cause of the clutch slippage was a jammed clutch fork.
The PO did not use the clutch to bearing clip and the clutch fork fell behind the bearing, the bearing rotated 90 degrees and the fork got jammed on and cocked a bit.
Pushed the bearing about 1 inch forward of where it should have been making it ride the pressure plate a bit.

$1 clip and I'd never have had the problem.

That being said. I'm getting some maintenance out of the way.. and learning a bunch about rovers.

THanks a lot to the people that helped me out.

[antichrist]

Originally Posted by zed

Reading the manual.. it says the engine must be removed to replace the rear seal. Is that accurate? I'd like to avoid it.. but if it needs to be done... it needs to be done.

As I recall you can do it without removing it, but I've never done it. They've always been out when I did. You have to remove the flywheel and flywheel housing as there are two half-moon shaped retainers for part of the seal you have to remove. Plus you have to remove the rear main bearing cap.

And is there a better manual than the ones located at LAND ROVER MANUALS DOWNLOAD
these things are a touch hard to understand.. what the heck is "Hylomar pl 32/m"

That's the factory manual, one of the best automotive shop manuals I've ever come across. More complete than even the Defender or Disco factory manuals. The only thing I've ever found lacking was a charging circuit diagram for a '67 109 diesel.
Hylomar is a gasket sealer. A lot of people use other stuff (whatever you use in it's place should be non-hardening and pretty thin) or you can get it from AB or RN.

[zed]

Turns out it was probably old or the input shaft on the tranny. I replaced that.


Also replacing tail shaft seal as my trans brake is well lubed.

INteresting..
Its working fine.. so I don't want to mess too much.. but..

The output shaft flange nut (out of the transfer box ..) is turned on past where a pin can be put into it. The pin is above it.. as if the nut needs to be spaced back another 1/4 inch.
I wonder what's wrong there?

It has 1 washer.. Its going to get another if I don't see anything immediately wrong with it.

[jimfoo]

No, nothing wrong with more washers. Better than a loose nut.

[zed]

I was more worried something was badly worn, wrong or missing causing the need for stacking washers. It could also be the wrong nut I suppose.. but more likely something is worn, crushed or missing. But working is better than right


I can stack washers all day. That's not what I thought would be wrong.


Thanks.

EDIT: When I took off the output pilot shaft flange, the nut was barely more than finger tight. Furthermore.. the brake flange bolts were also finger tight only.. or nearly.

I also found out what filled my brake with oil. The transmission was designed to leak.. that is.. it has a weep hole in the output shaft cover to let oil that will inevitably seep out not damage the parking/emergency brake...

WELL.. there was a big hunk of felt in the weep relief cut. Filled the sucker up as soon as it started leaking I imagine. Must have been the wrong felt seal.. the old one was tiny.. only about 1/4 inch thick. and not compact like it was crushed to that size. It also had a rubber face on it. The new one was about 3/4 inch thick. Some of it splayed out when I tightened the front down.. Hopefully it was only on the front.. or I'll have the same problem again potentially.

The output shaft has a slight groove where the seal rubbed.. palpable but not visible. Should be fine for my purposes. New one fits snugly.

[zed]

Thanks to everyone's help and some fast shipping by british pacific.. its going back together.
Just need to space out that castle nut on the output shaft with a trip to hardware store

I have one more question though.

Can the transmission be installed with the fairey overdrive installed?

reason I ask is... it was so tight in there before.. I thought I'd save myself some effort and pre install it. using up my only gasket. Then the thought of having to line up the nose bushing with the fairey overdrive came to mind as I was tightening the last nut to torque.


Thanks all..