Bad brakes!

[C.S. Houck]

Hello all!

I just got my first Land Rover after wanting one all my life, a 1961 88 series II that the prior owner claimed to put US$600.00 worth of brake work into it... It however, has poor brakes. When the car is at a stop, the pedal will go 1/2 way to the floor, feeling somewhat "spongy", but will hold the car without the pedal creeping any closer to the floor. When the car is in motion the brake pedal will go 90% to the floor, feeling like I'm stepping on a childs balloon, requiring pumping of the pedal is needed to get any meaningful brake action, but the car will stop in a straight line without pulling to either side. I have bled the system with Castrol LMA fluid with no change, and have seen no signs of wheel cylinder leakage.
What should I looking for here?
Best regards to all,
Chris Houck
Pacheco, California

[jimfoo]

First off, there is a 6 sided bolt head looking thing on the backing plates. This is to adjust the brakes as you must do it manually. Jack up each wheel and turn it while turning the bolt. Get it to where it just barely rubs. The second problem that can happen is the pin that the bottom of the shoes ride on can get loose in the backing plate, and move when the brakes are applied. On mine, I pumped the brakes several times with the vehicle stopped, then welded the pin to the plate. This helped the brakes considerably. Shoes on the wrong sides can cause problems also, though your brakes would be much worse if that was the case. I'd adjust them first, and if that doesn't help, weld the pins in place. This is assuming all lines do look new. If they look fairly old, then I'd replace them as well.

[Greg S]

It's English. The brakes don't bleed the same as American cars. The adjuster HAS to be slackened RIGHT OFF before bleeding. To get the air out, the cylinder piston MUST be allowed to return all the way to the end of its stroke, ie. piston face butted right up to the cylinder bottom. This means keeping the bleed screw open to the very last drip of fluid being pushed out by the stroke before being tightened.
(Notice the SHOUTED words in the text. That means they are important points.)

Then adjust the brakes!

[s.koekkoek]

i remember reading something in the Haynes series restoration manual about a spring in the brakes that is frequently mounted in the wrong hole in series2 brakes. This would result in having to pump multiple times before any braking action would occur. Might be worth checking. If you want i can look it up again and maybe scan the picture for you.

Bas

[C.S. Houck]

Originally Posted by s.koekkoek

i remember reading something in the Haynes series restoration manual about a spring in the brakes that is frequently mounted in the wrong hole in series2 brakes. This would result in having to pump multiple times before any braking action would occur. Might be worth checking. If you want i can look it up again and maybe scan the picture for you.

Bas

Yes, please! My email addie is christofear@mindspring.com
Much thanks,
Chris Houck

[C.S. Houck]

Thank you for the advice, I've adjusted the brakes , no improvement. I removed the front brake drums last thursday before I went to work for the weekend and found new shoes and wheel cylinders. Today I'll try bleeding the system once again as advised. This problem is really starting to annoy me, as it's prventing me from taking my new toy out on the road and playing with it. Grrrr!
Thanks for all the advice so far, you guys are just as helpful as the Studebaker owners, of which I also have in my collection a couple cars.
Best regards to all,
Chris
Pacheco, California

[s.koekkoek]

HI,

send you the picture, not sure if it went alright. some sort of antispam thing returned.

greetings

Bas

[C.S. Houck]

Got it! Thank you very much!
Best regards,
Chris Houck

[Kevin]

No sarcasm intended in my reply but be thankful your vehicle stops in a straight line. Series brakes remember were designed long ago when the pace of vehicles was MUCH slower. Drum brakes are notoriously bad compared to discs today.

Correct adjustment and bleeding should get them to a point where you don't have to do a first pump but it kind off becomes second nature to do it. My brakes on my 109" never needed to first pump but would never brake straight. My buddy's 88" always needs the first pump but brakes straight as a die.

Thus I always did a first pump anyway merely to detect which direction the vehicle was going to pull towards.

I've just had to replace my master cylinder and now I'm doing the first pump action also because I'm struggling to get the brake pressure high again.