Diesels in Series vehicles?

[archaeology_student]

Hi,

I was wondering if any of the diesel owners out there have upgraded their 2.25 diesels to something with a little bit more speed, and torque. I know of the 2.5, 200tdi conversions, but I was wondering if anyone has done the daihatsu or ford 2.3-8 litre upgrades? Something not known?

Anyone think it would be a good idea to have a Diesel specific section for all the Diesel rovers out there?

Thanks

[300bhp/ton]

I think the Izusu swap is a common one. However being a diehard Land Rover fan I personally can't stand Landy's with such engines in them, espcially when Land Rover offers some great diesel engines anyhow.

Perkins swaps are also pretty common. But essentially the engine bay is big enough and easy enough to work in that you could fit pretty much any engine as long as you could either get a bell housing to couple to the gearbox or use some other suitable gearbox/transfer box.

If I was looking at swaping a diesel into a Series Land Rover I'd look Tdi, TD5 or maybe the new 2.4 DOHC unit (you could get one from a Ford Transit). Couple it up to a 90 transfer box and use either a LT77 or R380 Rover 5-speed gearbox.

[braganjackson11]

Mercedesrover put a, obviously, mercedes diesel in his...my dad talked to him about it...he has the adapter plate to mate it to the series transmission on his website www.seriestrek.com. you can get the engine for cheap and it's supposed to run without any wires once you get it started meaning you can literally unhook everything and it goes. not sure that it actually gets any more power though

[Muddy Oval]

I've seen a couple with Volvo diesels and a few Mercedes conversions. There's one running around this area with a Ford diesel, but since it's from a European transport lorry one would have to anticipate the need for replacement parts since there aren't any in the US.
There's no real compelling reason to replace a working 2.25 with a 2.5. The tdi's will not necessarily make it much faster, but taking hills won't be so embarrassing. If my 2.25 dies, I have a 2.5 on standby. The only thing it would gain is a little efficiency.

[KevinNY]

There is a bit of a cult about diesels, if I ever replace my 9:1 2.25 petrol it will be with a small block chevy and a NP435 gearbox.

[onslow]

Originally Posted by archaeology_student

Hi,

I was wondering if any of the diesel owners out there have upgraded their 2.25 diesels to something with a little bit more speed, and torque. I know of the 2.5, 200tdi conversions, but I was wondering if anyone has done the daihatsu or ford 2.3-8 litre upgrades? Something not known?

Anyone think it would be a good idea to have a Diesel specific section for all the Diesel rovers out there?

Thanks

200TDi everytime quick fuel efficient fits straight onto a series gearbox easy and simple and it keeps the motor all landrover

[Muddy Oval]

The 200 only makes sense if you get one dirt cheap in the UK- in the US, people pay absolutely stupid amounts of money for even the poorest condition ones.

[onslow]

Originally Posted by Muddy Oval

The 200 only makes sense if you get one dirt cheap in the UK- in the US, people pay absolutely stupid amounts of money for even the poorest condition ones.

How much is stupid money?

[300bhp/ton]

Originally Posted by Muddy Oval

There's no real compelling reason to replace a working 2.25 with a 2.5. The tdi's will not necessarily make it much faster,

Steve that's total horse crap!!!!!!!

A Tdi unit puts out significantly more HP and copious amounts more torque.

If you don't like Tdi's, fine don't buy one. But please stop posting all this made up crap about them.

[300bhp/ton]

Originally Posted by onslow

How much is stupid money?

First, ignore Muddy he has a hatred of Tdi's espeically the 200.

As for prices well I bought a 2nd hand one last summer for £475 complete (minus starter motor). However £700-800 is common and is about the same price as a 300Tdi. TD5's seem to sell from about £1100.

BTW - a decent Rover V8 (3.9) will probably set you back £600-800.

[TerryS]

Originally Posted by Muddy Oval

There's no real compelling reason to replace a working 2.25 with a 2.5. The tdi's will not necessarily make it much faster, but taking hills won't be so embarrassing. If my 2.25 dies, I have a 2.5 on standby. The only thing it would gain is a little efficiency.

I'm guessing A) You never drove anything with a 2.5NA. It is no more efficient than the 2.25, and is in every way, an equal dog.

I'm guessing B). You never driven a series with a 200 Tdi. While a good running 2.25 gasser with OD can easily hold 65mph on the flats, it slows way down on any incline. The same truck can do 65 without taking a second breath with a 200, and faster is easy enough, though I'm not going there in a 2A, It's just too fast for comfort. The big difference is on those inclines. It will barely slow down on the longest hills. Bottom line; if you can go as fast, or faster, and not slow down, getting from A to B is gonna be quicker. The bottom end torque of the Tdi engines (200 or 300) is so good, you will find yourself using lowrange off road much less.
Since the gap between the wings is the same on series and Defender, you can get away with a Tdi Radiator/intercooler, but the custom, larger intercoolers make a huge difference.

[buick215]

The 200/300 Tdi engines are some of the most efficient and hard working small diesels you will find,with power and torque characteristics well suited to a 4wd.Fitted in a leaf sprung LR they will offer excellent performance,economy,instant starting,VERY long service life and second to none reliability - in short because of the ease of fitting you cant beat them.
If you live in a country where they are rare then thats a great shame,the few problems that they suffered,(nill,compared to most engines) are well known and easily remedied.195ft lb of torque at 1800 rpm,(200Tdi) is close to a 3.5 v8 at 205ft lb and after 80,000m I know which would win on a dyno.
They are very repairable,rebuildable etc as well which fits in well with a vehicle that is meant to last.I have considered fitting one without a turbo to my IIA (firewood truck) and running it on Oilseed Rape extract,(Canola oil)just because of its long term reliability prospects.

[onslow]

Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton

First, ignore Muddy he has a hatred of Tdi's espeically the 200.

As for prices well I bought a 2nd hand one last summer for £475 complete (minus starter motor). However £700-800 is common and is about the same price as a 300Tdi. TD5's seem to sell from about £1100.

BTW - a decent Rover V8 (3.9) will probably set you back £600-800.

I Know how much they are here it was the stateside prices I was after

[Muddy Oval]

Well- never mind the same person who can't READ what i write... A 200, as I said, won't really increase the speed- my 109 can cruise the highway just fine without a turbo at the same speed as a 110 w/200. The 200 wouldn't make it any faster, but would make up for the lack of power the NA diesels have on hills. Night and day difference on hills.
ANYWAY- the 2.5 isn't worth swapping to, but if one falls in your lap when a 2.25 expires, they are slightly more efficient and will produce about the same driving experience with less smoke. I've driven 2.5 equipped 110's back to back against my 2.25 109- no real difference, but the 2.5 smokes a bit less and isn't a bad way to go.
People are paying stupid money for old crapped out 200's in the US. I just can't imagine why, but I've seen junkyard 200's selling for thousands. I don't hate the 200, but I don't buy into the fad/hype that it is better than a V8.

[archaeology_student]

Yowser! Lots of info Thanks everyone... I've been curious about the various flavours of non LR diesels put into LRs. Sharing ideas is important, and I thank each and everyone one of you for your input

How about we discuss this over ?

[onslow]

Originally Posted by Muddy Oval

Well- never mind the same person who can't READ what i write... A 200, as I said, won't really increase the speed- my 109 can cruise the highway just fine without a turbo at the same speed as a 110 w/200. The 200 wouldn't make it any faster, but would make up for the lack of power the NA diesels have on hills. Night and day difference on hills.
ANYWAY- the 2.5 isn't worth swapping to, but if one falls in your lap when a 2.25 expires, they are slightly more efficient and will produce about the same driving experience with less smoke. I've driven 2.5 equipped 110's back to back against my 2.25 109- no real difference, but the 2.5 smokes a bit less and isn't a bad way to go.
People are paying stupid money for old crapped out 200's in the US. I just can't imagine why, but I've seen junkyard 200's selling for thousands. I don't hate the 200, but I don't buy into the fad/hype that it is better than a V8.

Fad and hype aye thats why 80% of discos in europe are TDi 30mpg against 15-18 of the V8, with 150 Bhp easily acheivable and relatively cheap to do capable of over 250k with no problems a totally bomb proof engine with nothing fancy to go wrong .The Tdi wins hands down,Ive had more V8s than you can shake a stick at but always use the TDi for towing and long trips,the V8 is simply used for the noise.

[300bhp/ton]

Originally Posted by Muddy Oval

Well- never mind the same person who can't READ what i write... A 200, as I said, won't really increase the speed- my 109 can cruise the highway just fine without a turbo at the same speed as a 110 w/200.

So you whole basis of 200Tdi's is of one example in a 110?

My stock 300tdi would top 100mph on a good day. My 200tdi Discovery will happily cruise at 80mph.

In a series if you use the stock diffs and gearbox then gearing may limit top speed more so than power, but a Tdi series will be way FASTER than any other standard engine in a Series and yes that includes Stage 1's!!!!

Originally Posted by Muddy Oval

The 200 wouldn't make it any faster, but would make up for the lack of power the NA diesels have on hills. Night and day difference on hills.
ANYWAY- the 2.5 isn't worth swapping to, but if one falls in your lap when a 2.25 expires, they are slightly more efficient and will produce about the same driving experience with less smoke. I've driven 2.5 equipped 110's back to back against my 2.25 109- no real difference, but the 2.5 smokes a bit less and isn't a bad way to go.
People are paying stupid money for old crapped out 200's in the US. I just can't imagine why, but I've seen junkyard 200's selling for thousands. I don't hate the 200, but I don't buy into the fad/hype that it is better than a V8.

Depends what you mean by better.

For a small amount of money you can get a 200/300Tdi to easily outperform a 3.9/4.0 Rover V8 with DOUBLE the MPG, less maintanance and NO electrics. So ideal for off roading.

V8's are cool but in the end diesels rule!

[p76rangie]

An Izuzu deisel is a genuine Landrover type item. They were fitted by Landrover to vehicles sold in OZ before the TDI.

[MPi-KMS-72]

Originally Posted by braganjackson11

Mercedesrover put a, obviously, mercedes diesel in his...my dad talked to him about it...he has the adapter plate to mate it to the series transmission on his website www.seriestrek.com. you can get the engine for cheap and it's supposed to run without any wires once you get it started meaning you can literally unhook everything and it goes. not sure that it actually gets any more power though

IIRC the Mercedes 4 cyl produces HP somewhere inbetween the 2.25d and the 2.25p. Jim quoted me something like 25mpg , that was with 4.10 diffs and OD.

There have been a lot of other diesel swaps here in north america, Cummins 4bt, 6at, GM 6.2 and 6.5l. http://www.aloharovers.com/tech/diesel/index.htm

The 200 and 300tdis may be nice but they aren't particularly practical here. None were ever officially imported by LR, parts can be a royal pain to get if you are broken down in the middle of Nebraska or some remote place. For the rest of the world they are great. Here even an EFI SBC could be a more practical alternative.

Still some people here pay silly money($3k 4k 5k 6k and up!) for the TDIs and they do love them. But I'd be surprised if there were more than 250 LR TDIs here on the road today in the USA, in fact the # may be even much less than that. Here in the USA the TDI is a status symbol- a cult type icon for LR nuts, it is a completely different situation from the rest of the world:
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp

[KevinNY]

Bill Davis may be offering a Perkins kit in the future.

[jaguiler]

you may mean Robert Davis

http://www.lrfaq.org/Series/FAQ.S.op...onversion.html

[TerryS]

Originally Posted by MPi-KMS-72

There have been a lot of other diesel swaps here in north america, Cummins 4bt, 6at, GM 6.2 and 6.5l.


The 200 and 300tdis may be nice but they aren't particularly practical here. None were ever officially imported by LR, parts can be a royal pain to get if you are broken down in the middle of Nebraska or some remote place.

Still some people here pay silly money($3k 4k 5k 6k and up!)

Jim's install is neat and tidy, but that engine offer's only a marginal improvement in performance. Fuel economy is great, and it can pull hills. He aint giving his adapters away.

I would argue your point about the paracticality of using a 200 or 300 Tdi.
Parts are a day or 2 away by UPS (from 2 US sources). It is an engine which, by design, is not in anyway a compromise in a Land Rover. Yes people are paying silly prices, but the few stories of 5K and up are based on a very few stupid people with enough money to burn, and far more, based on many vocal "experts" flapping their illinformed gums. There are plenty (hundreds) of Isuzus and Nissans in Miami, all imports from Japan, but is re-engineering the truck going to be much less (time, effort, and cash)than using a better engine to begin with?The 200 is available for around 2k from more than one source, depends if you're getting front pipe, intercooler/rad, and gearbox/TC

The 4BT Cummins is a great engine (or 6BT) The 4BT is heavier, and physically larger than the 200/300 Tdis, and require adapters. A 6BT would be so large as to require bulkhead mods, and I don't mean minor. Completely ill suited. Hell, I bet a could get a 12-71 into an 88, does that mean it's right?
I have no intention of replacing the engine in my 110, but every intention of doing it in one of our series trucks. Only thing holding me back is retirement income.