Diesels in Series vehicles?

[p76rangie]

300BHP, here is a little puzzle to help you start to think outside the square:

"A cowboy left town on Friday, he arrived back in the same town 5 days later on Friday" How?

[p76rangie]

Back to the original purpose of the thread. You might try this motor if you are looking for a diesel replacement.

http://www.landyonline.co.za/worksho...onal28lhs.html
There is now an alternative for Land Rover fans in the form of the International HS 2.8L turbo diesel engine, now available in New Zealand. This engine, made by International Engines in Brazil, is the big brother to the old 300 Tdi, increased in size to give a volume of 2785cc over the 300 Tdi’s 2495cc. The additional displacement won’t fill a can of your finest, but it does give better torque than the Td5 along with similar power. The Td5 Defender produces 90kW at 4200 rpm (101kW for Discovery) and 300Nm at 1950rpm compared to the HS 2.8L’s 99kW at 3800rpm 375Nm at 1400rpm.

To understand why the HS 2.8 is considered the big brother to Land Rover’s popular 300 Tdi you have to take a little (recent) history lesson. When the old 300 Tdi engine gave way to the Td5 in 1998, the engine lines were sold to International Engines. Part of the deal was that International would continue to supply Land Rover with 300 Tdi engines as required, as they were still sold in Defenders for many overseas locations. Included in the purchase were the rights to further develop the engine and it was turned into HS 2.8L with some redevelopment of the bore, crank, stroke and turbocharger.

The block was redesigned to improve cooling and this also extended to the oil pump which is now water-cooled, negating the need for the external oil cooler found on the 300 Tdi. The bore was enlarged slightly with a new piston developed and produced by Mahle in Germany and the crankshaft is now forged and not cast. Improvements were also made to the bearing caps which are now secured to the conrods by through bolts which are threaded into the conrod instead of the 300 Tdi’s bolt and nut arrangement, and the cylinder head is sealed with a new steel laminate head gasket.

Finally, a new Garrett turbocharger provides a further boost in power and torque. Using what is termed "variable nozzle turbocharger" (VNT) it harnesses variable geometry to alter the flow rates at low speed. It’s achieved by varying the angle of the adjustable vanes inside the turbine housing that direct the exhaust gases onto the turbine blades.

Turbocharger design is often a compromise, with large units providing the large volumes of air that engines need at speed, though it won’t spin up to speed so quickly during low-speed acceleration, producing turbo lag. A small turbo will accelerate quickly but may be short on output at high speeds. Using the variable geometry allows a constant boost pressure available from idle so there is no delay or lag when accelerating. Coupled with the Bosch VP14 mechanical fuel system (no electronics), the end result is improved acceleration and maximum torque achieved at a low 1400rpm compared with 300 Tdi’s 1800rpm or the Td5’s 1950rpm.

The HS 2.8 is compatible with the bell housings of all Land Rovers (Defenders and Discoverys) with four cylinder engines and an alternative rear aluminium housing is available to fit the larger bell housings of V8 models meaning no adapter plates are required when converting.

Leaving one of the best features to last, the other major benefit the HS 2.8 has over other engines normally found re-powering Land Rovers such as the Nissan FD 35 and various Toyota engines of similar size, is the weight. The HS 2.8 weighs in at 208kg, around 50 per cent less than the Japanese engines.

The International HS 2.8L is used by Ford in the Ranger utes sold in various parts of the world.

[AlohaRover]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

No, it has nothing to do with what gear it is in, you will always lose around 40% of your power through the drive train.
It is an old 1970's 4.4 rover V8

Yes it has everything to do with the gear it is in.

When a vehicle is dynoed they strap it down and run it up through the gears.
So yes depending on the vehicle it's not uncommon to get up to 100, 110, 120mph

The run is made in top gear and you get results from accross the operating RPM band. The numbers I was given were from 1500-3500rpms.
These numbers are measured at the rear wheel. Depending on the chassis dyno used to get the flywheel numbers you need to multiply by the axle gearing used and divide by the trany gear if it's not 1:1

Some of the better dynos you enter all of these numbers in and it works it out for you. On the older ones you need to do the math yourself.

Also you are grossly wrong on the 40% inefficiency loss. As a very general rule, rear-wheel horsepower on a manual-transmission car is about 15% less than SAE net, and rear-wheel horsepower on an automatic-transmission car is about 20% less than SAE net.

I suggest you buy this book
http://www.amazon.com/Auto-Math-Hdbk...3364490&sr=8-1
and then try again.

[300bhp/ton]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

I know it does and I have posted the graph to prove it. Instead of making smart comments and calling people names, maybe you should think about why it is correct, rather just refusing to accept it.

care to expand on the mods and exact spec of your motor then???

And also why with only 4.4 litres it massivly out performs the latest 7.0 litre engine from GM at 1600rpm.

[300bhp/ton]

p76rangie -

Just so if you want you can stop making yourself look stupid here's the spec on a NEW built 5.0 Rover V8, so bigger displacement than yours but note how much torque it makes and also the the PEAK is at 4250rpm.

5.0 Sports Engine 280 BHP @ 5350, 330 ftlb @ 4250. Built to a similar spec to the 4.6 above, this engine features 96mm big bore cylinders offset ground and balanced crankshaft, and is fully heat treated for maximum strength and life. Built with Billet H section custom con rods, hyper eutectic cast alloy pistons, 10.5:1 CR. The big bore short stroke 5.0 produces effortless torque and smooth running.

http://www.automotivecomp.com/news.html

There are many more companies which sell Rover V8's and all will be claiming similar numbers.

So wake up and smell the petrol fumes - 400lb ft @ 1600rpm lol

[p76rangie]

Aloha, you are quoting 2 wheel drive figures on a 2 wheel dyno. Try 4 wheel drive on a 4WD dyno.

300Bhp, how many times do I have to tell you the figures on the graph are correct. But obviously your not the expert you make yourself to be. There must not be a similar graph on the internet to tell you the answer.

[jimfoo]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

300BHP, here is a little puzzle to help you start to think outside the square:

"A cowboy left town on Friday, he arrived back in the same town 5 days later on Friday" How?

Friday was his horse.

[jimfoo]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

Back to the original purpose of the thread. You might try this motor if you are looking for a diesel replacement.

http://www.landyonline.co.za/worksho...onal28lhs.html
There is now an alternative for Land Rover fans in the form of the International HS 2.8L turbo diesel engine,...
Finally, a new Garrett turbocharger provides a further boost in power and torque. Using what is termed "variable nozzle turbocharger" (VNT) it harnesses variable geometry to alter the flow rates at low speed. It’s achieved by varying the angle of the adjustable vanes inside the turbine housing that direct the exhaust gases onto the turbine blades.
(See my avatar)

...

A very nice engine. Timing gears, so no belt to change. But are you wanting
to keep the stock gearbox? I don't think it would last long with a larger diesel
like this one.

[p76rangie]

Jimfoo, You've heard it before? Correct answer though.

[300bhp/ton]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

Aloha, you are quoting 2 wheel drive figures on a 2 wheel dyno. Try 4 wheel drive on a 4WD dyno.

you spanner those are from an ENGINE dyno not a chassis dyno so there where no wheels let alone 2 or 4wd.

Originally Posted by p76rangie

300Bhp, how many times do I have to tell you the figures on the graph are correct. But obviously your not the expert you make yourself to be. There must not be a similar graph on the internet to tell you the answer.

ok you engine is the BEST in the WORLD then beating the top of the range LS7 from the Corvette or any other enigne in production today.


Or maybe, just maybe your wrong and your 50 year old motor isn't really outperforming bigger displacement and more sophisticated motors.

LOSER!!!!!!!

[p76rangie]

300Bhp I will let you keep on making a fool of yourself, but I will tell you the answer one day.

[300bhp/ton]

ha ha such a moron.

[p76rangie]

I think that you have just dug yourself into a big hole. You are not prepared to climb out, so you just keep on digging and hoping that you will be OK

The world according to 300Bhp

Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton

My stock 300tdi would top 100mph on a good day. My 200tdi Discovery will happily cruise at 80mph.

In a series if you use the stock diffs and gearbox then gearing may limit top speed more so than power, but a Tdi series will be way FASTER than any other standard engine in a Series and yes that includes Stage 1's!!!!

For a small amount of money you can get a 200/300Tdi to easily outperform a 3.9/4.0 Rover V8 with DOUBLE the MPG, less maintanance and NO electrics. So ideal for off roading.

You really have no idea do you

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.....

Ian, just because you don't understand/or get something doesn't make it wrong. Maybe try and be a little open minded????

Also I don’t think there was a discrepancy with the 200Tdi and output from Defender to Discovery

PEAK numbers really don’t mean anything you need to see the profile of the curve to see where it is making its power.

Typically a mildly modified Tdi engine (intercooler & tune) will see around 35% increase in HP/torque

It's very rare to massivly increase the torque number and it certainly won't be as low in the rpms.

Another thing to remember is how much power it can make over it’s rpm range. Tdi’s don’t rev much past 4000rpm (PEAK HP) but as they make PEAK torque at only 1800rpm it means their power band is in fact the vast majority of it’s entire rpm range.

Total bullshit, it depends on the engine and use (most dramtically fail to have a flat torque curve) and it is also impossible

Are you just pissed that you're wrong and are not man enough to admit it?

Once again you've proved yourself to be a total TIT!!!!

Sadly you seem to be too dumb to realise it.

You are such an idiot

Go back to school, go learn your Maths!

Get out of that one numnuts!

Yep I was dreaming of maybe having a conversation with an intelligent life form, sadly it ended being you instead

When dynoing at the wheels you MUST ALWAYS ensure you are using a gear ratio of 1:1

your dyno graph is 100% BOLLOX

You’re out of your tiny mind

40% loss my ARSE!

The reason your dyno graph is showing such numbers is probably down to the error introduced because of dynoing in the wrong gear.

You must be on crack if you believe that.

I think you really will be amazed at how wrong you are.

Just so if you want you can stop making yourself look stupid

So wake up and smell the petrol fumes

you spanner

LOSER!!!!!!!

ha ha such a moron.

[DiscoAmigo]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

300BHP, here is a little puzzle to help you start to think outside the square:

"A cowboy left town on Friday, he arrived back in the same town 5 days later on Friday" How?

His gay lover's name is Friday...oops, that's the Brokeback Mt. version.

His horse is named Friday!

[300bhp/ton]

So I guess p76rangie you are not going to disclose the spec of your Rover 4.4 then????

Just another question dodged

More proof it's all bs.

I think its time to add you to the ignore list. Later, much much later.