Diesels in Series vehicles?

[TerryS]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

"The maximum amount of torque multiplication produced by a converter is highly dependent on the size and geometry of the turbine and stator blades, and is generated only when the converter is at or near the stall phase of operation. Typical stall torque multiplication ratios range from 1.8:1 to 2.5:1 for most automotive applications (although multi-element designs as used in the Buick Dynaflow and Chevrolet Turboglide could produce more). Specialized converters design for industrial or heavy marine power transmission systems are capable of as much as 5.0:1 multiplication."

Ian, where is this quote from, and how old is it?

[p76rangie]

TerryS, its from that Wikipedia site. Do you want me to get another source?

You can try this:
"In a hydraulic torque converter, efficiency depends intimately on the angles at which the fluid enters and leaves the blades of the several parts. Because these angles change appreciably over the operating range, k varies, being by definition zero when the output is stalled, although output torque at stall may be three times engine torque for a single-stage converter and five times engine torque for a three-stage converter. Depending on its input absorption characteristics, the hydraulic torque converter tends to pull down the engine speed toward the speed at which the engine develops maximum torque when the load pulls down the converter output speed toward stall."

[300bhp/ton]

It doesn’t matter what the torque converter does, your motor is NOT making 520lb ft.

The dyno graph is WRONG as it can't compensate for the slippage of the TC.

As has already been stated some Dynojet Chassis Dyno's can compensate using winPEP 7 software.

If you're motor is fairly stock then it will be making PEAK torque somewhere between 2500-4500rpm depending on specifics and it certainly won't be near 400lb ft, in fact it may even struggle to break much past 300 lb ft

[TerryS]

[quote=p76rangie]TerryS, its from that Wikipedia site. Do you want me to get another source?[quote]

No, Don't trouble yourself on my account. It's just that, after reading that first quote, I realized it was more than 30 years old, possibly 40 years old. I then began to wonder how this volitile thread went from talking about diesel engines in Series trucks to antique torque converters.

[p76rangie]

TerryS, the ZF4 auto is basically 20 plus years old.

300Bhp, are you ever going to read something before you open your mouth. Find where I ever said the motor put out 520ft lb. I always quoted at the wheels. Here I will help you.

Originally Posted by p76rangie

Here is my Dyno graph. It is real and was done in second gear on a 4WD Dyno. The power is measured at the wheels and therefore there is usually a 30% to 40% power drop from ratings at the flywheel. The left edge of the graph is about 1,600 RPM. For those that can do the conversions, as the graph is in KW's and Nm's, at the wheels my car was putting out 260 ft lb of torque at 1600 Rpm. The torque then drops off from there.

Originally Posted by AlohaRover

Don't you mean at the flywheel?
otherwise you are claiming over 800ftlbs at the flywheel.

Originally Posted by p76rangie

No it was at the wheels, so that would be the equivalent of around 400 Fl Lb plus at flywheel. But you have to think about the figures a little more.

Originally Posted by p76rangie

We have two doubters now. Remember the figures are taken at the wheels.

And if you really must know the motor puts out around the mid 300's in torque (which is nearly double the 200 and 300TDi's) at around 2,500 RPM. And in a auto, the torque convertor is the equivalent of the flywheel in a manual.

[Hillbilly Raider]

question....
HOW MUCH DRIVING DO YOU DO?
ALL THIS TECHY TALK IS DOING MY HEAD IN
(chill guys)

[p76rangie]

After 10 years in this current stint of 4WDing, too much. That is why I am actually backing off on the driving a bit and getting more involved in other 4WD related activities, like competitions.

You spend all your time and money making the truck better and better to tackle those harder tracks. Then you have to find harder and harder tracks to make it interesting. Then you get to a point where it is hard to find challanging tracks and you end up getting board with doing the same ones over and over. So stick to your standard series vehicles and have fun, as any track is a challange in them.

[300bhp/ton]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

TerryS, the ZF4 auto is basically 20 plus years old.

300Bhp, are you ever going to read something before you open your mouth. Find where I ever said the motor put out 520ft lb. I always quoted at the wheels. Here I will help you.





And if you really must know the motor puts out around the mid 300's in torque (which is nearly double the 200 and 300TDi's) at around 2,500 RPM. And in a auto, the torque convertor is the equivalent of the flywheel in a manual.

None of this is really worthy of comment, except that it is very much sig worthy (I'm sitting her pissing myself with laughter :lol :lol )

I feel like creating a whole new user account just so I use them.

So lets get this straight, your Range Rover makes more power at the wheels than it does at the engine?????

You are so so:

[300bhp/ton]

further humiliation:

Originally Posted by p76rangie

Find where I ever said the motor put out 520ft lb.

Ok then

Originally Posted by p76rangie

at the wheels my car was putting out 260 ft lb of torque at 1600 Rpm.

So 260 to the wheels, huh!

Originally Posted by p76rangie

and they have confirmed that I am correct when I have stated that the wheels only generate 50% of the power at the flywheel.

ummm only 50% - REALLY.

So that means 260lb ft is half the flywheel torque then. Lets see:

260 x 2 = 520 or 100%.

So YES you have said your motor makes 520lb ft @ 1600rpm



BTW – is this you?

[TerryS]

Originally Posted by p76rangie

TerryS, the ZF4 auto is basically 20 plus years old.

Dynaflow and Turboglide are closer to 60 years old, have little to nothing in common with the ZF4, nor do the torque converters even resemble their ancestors.

[onslow]

Originally Posted by TerryS

Dynaflow and Turboglide are closer to 60 years old, have little to nothing in common with the ZF4, nor do the torque converters even resemble their ancestors.

RV8 at 520 ib/ft + ZF4 auto= BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My 6.2 gm diesel used to eat one of these boxes a year and the torque was far less than you claim yours produces

[toyota_jon]

Originally Posted by 300bhp/ton

BTW – is this you?

Damn you 300! i was in the libary at school when i was reading this and started laughing! i'm supposed to be quiet in here!

[archaeology_student]

back to the heart of the thread. Does anyone have pics or know of any pics that show the various diesels in the series rovers besides the rover engines (e.g., the 200 tdi or 300 tdi)?



Can't we all just get along, and call it a draw with some

[p76rangie]

This is obviously getting no where. you are attempting to pull at minute threads to justify the stance you took. You obviously have no clue as to how a torque converter works, or at least your not willing to admit it. And yes, at the wheels at low revs, you would need a motor putting out around 500 ft lb torque in a manual to have the equivalent torque at the wheels as my motor and auto. I know that this is a difficult concept for some small brains to comprehend, but it does not change the facts.

and 300Bhp, i love what you have as part of your signature when you post, I get a laugh every time on what you proudly list as a modification to your disco.

[Mercedesrover]

Originally Posted by archaeology_student

back to the heart of the thread. Does anyone have pics or know of any pics that show the various diesels in the series rovers besides the rover engines?

This thread is so friggin stupid it's not worth reading.

You should start another thread so maybe you can get some answers to your question instead of being splashed with urine.

I've got a Mercedes 2.4 diesel in my truck and it's great. I even sell an adapter kit to help get it in there. Start another thread and I'll tell you all about it.

Jim