HELP!!! (Engine troubles?) - Land Rovers Only

braganjackson11 · 12-15-2006, 04:50 PM

so we've gotten my 1971 88" IIA on the road for a little more than a week, close to two, and it had been running great. On the cold mornings from last week it was cranking up on the second time i turned it over every time. Now she doesn't want to start on the second time when it's been sitting for just 10 minutes.

In addition, during some points in acceleration, mostly when going up hill, the truck starts getting jerky and you have to let off the accelerator and de-clutch back down to second to get it going normal again.

Back to the starting issue, it seems to be having more trouble when it's on a slop whether it be facing up or downhill. The only thing i could figure as being the problem is someone's put in a new fuel line with an in-line filter and it runs all the way down under the oil filter then back up accross the top of the engine block and over to the carb, which seemed a long way to push the fuel to get to the carb. could this be the sole cause of the problems? they all seem to be fuel related....i just filled up with some Raceway unleaded could the quality of the gas be the problem? maybe a higher octane?

pickuprover · 12-15-2006, 06:40 PM

need some more info... when you say it doesn't want to crank up... you mean the starter does not spin, or the starte spins and the engine does not fire?

The inline should be no problem. It is actually adviseable to have it in as the sediment bowl (on the fuel pump) does not do a great job of filtering the little stuff that fouls the carb. My guess is that one of the check valves on the fuel pump (namely the one that prevents the fuel from running back into the tank) is shot. This would cause two things.. first, the fuel systm would lose it's prime, causing you to have to crank the engine a bit to get the fuel back up to the filter before starting it. Also it creates a weaker pump, thus starving the carb when the petal is full to the floor (ie going up hill) for any length of time (remember you have a bit of reserve in the bowl of the carb...)

If this is the case, it is a fairly easy fix. Call your supply parts store (whichever landy one you are using) order a fuel pump rebuild kit (I always keep one in stock, so you might want to order 2 while you are doing it.) Unbolt the fuel pump from the side of the engine, withdraw. Undo the screws around the outside of the pump, flip the top over and you will see two round valves in it. Make sure you document which way each valve is pointing (if you reverse the directions when you reinstall, you will have no pump....). Carefully without damaging the seats, remove the two valves, insert the new valves, stamp them in place. You might want to replace the diaphram in there as well while you are at it, and clean the sediment bowl, replace the paper gasket on the bowl as well. Apply gasket, and goop, bolt back on. Reattach fuel lines, prime the pump with the lever on the bottom of the pump... and fire it up....

braganjackson11 · 12-15-2006, 07:02 PM

doesn't want to crank meaning that the starter motor spins but the engine will not turn over....the fuel pump is brand new so i hope that that's not the problem but we'll have to check.

could it be something with the carb itself? it is a weber and we have never adjusted any of its settings. i have heard that they are a pain to get tuned properly so i would guess it needs some adjustment of some sort?

the engine has also been sputtering after you cut the ignition until you mash the accelerator and it finally cuts out

pickuprover · 12-15-2006, 07:29 PM

If it is new, then there could be a speck of dirt in the valves. But as well new does not mean problem free...

Webers are actually not that hard to set....... there are two adjustment screws... one for idle mixture (comes out at an angle to the font/back line of the carb) and the idle speed (screw is at right angles to the front/back line of carb and moves the linkage that the throttle cable hooks into...)

First things first, adjust your valves, points and timing... then the procedure is simple... set the idle speed to about 500-550 rpm. Turn the idle mixture screw until you get the smoothest idle. Readjust the idle speed back to 500-550rpm. Alternate the 2 until you get a smooth engine at 550-550rpms. To test if setting is correct, turn the mixture screw in a half turn and out a half turn, the engine should start to run a little rougher or you should hear a change in the engine. Reset the screw back to the original setting. As well, when you rev the engine, there should be no hesitation.

Back to the no start.. I would definately check the fuel pump, because so far it sounds like that is the culprit. Is you inline filter between the fuel pump and the carb? If so, after it sits for ten minutes, and you try and hand prime it with the lever on the bottom of the fuel pump. Does the fuel flow through the filter? If it does then the fuel is being allowed to flow back down the line to the tank, and thus causing you to need to reprime. Aslo, when you first fire it up when it is cold, do you have any issues?

pickuprover · 12-15-2006, 07:33 PM

The other thing possibly could be a plugged jet in the carb. Try removing the air breather flex hose at the carb, and with the engine running, use the palm of your hand, cover the air intake, until just before the engine stalls, repeat a couple of times. Sometimes, if it is a bit of dirt in the carb, the severe change in pressures will disslodge it or suck it out...

bamarover · 12-15-2006, 08:42 PM

Bragan has gone out for the evening, but I saw the post. I think you have it with the fuel pump. Bragan was at my dad;s and the starting problem occured. He sprayed some starter fluid in the carb. Cranked up fairly quicky. He also noted that there was air in the inline filter (disappeared)that I had not seen previously. That would go with the fuel leaking back to the tank you noted, losing prime. Going to go through it tomorrow, check points, timing, . Will post findings and get those two kits ordered. It has deiseled some today after cutting the key off. Does that fit with this picture?
Thanks for your input!
Greg

pickuprover · 12-16-2006, 07:13 AM

If it is desieling, then your carb is off a bit (running a little rich and allowing carbon to build up and ignite in the chamber..) I definately think that it is the fuel pump. ONe other thing though, if the needle valve in the carb is not closing (is there any leaking fuel at the carb?) sometimes that will allow the gas to flow back to the tank as well, even if the fuel pump valves are in good shape. (you seem to need both the check valves and the effect of your thumb over the end of a straw to hold the gas up sometimes).

The fuel pump would explain both the hard start and the jerky. But I was thinking of one other thing. Not sure how close to freezing it gets in Alabama (please forgive me, I am in the great white north) but the webers are noted for icing up. That as well could explian things (especially if the weather is in the 27 to 37 f range and high humidity.) As the air excellerates through the ventrical of the carb, it condenses and freezes on the inside of the card, reducing the amount of air until it pretty much starves the engine of air (usually though this is notable by the plume of black smoke emitted by the tailpipe...). After you shut the engine down, the ice melts, pools the water in the air intake, which gets pulled into the cylinders, fouling the plugs, causing you to have to spark them long enought to heat them up and evaporate the water... Just a thought, but I think that you guys would be a little warm for that.....

pickuprover · 12-16-2006, 07:24 AM

While you are ordering parts.. get a carb rebuild kit, set of points, rotor and cap, and coil. Should always have a spare if each on hand, will fix the majority of the everyday problems on these things. Usually the major problems on these things are minor, so keeping some spare parts around is a good idea.

braganjackson11 · 12-16-2006, 09:16 AM

we go my grandpa over this morning to help us get everything tuned up and we found that the timing was way off, so after adjusting that it ran alot better however it's still dieseling so we're gonna get the carb adjusted and hope that fixes the problem

it's still very jerky when the accelerator pedal is floored and it's in 4th gear, almost like it's getting starved of fuel. pop aggreed and thought that the needle valve needed to be replaced so we'll have to get that. is a new needle valve parts of a carb rebuild kit?

in trying to get it running we already got an extra set of points, rotor , cap, and coil so all we have left is the carb rebuild kit and the fuel pump rebuild kit which we will be ordering come monday morning

pickuprover · 12-16-2006, 04:21 PM

The needle valve should be in the rebuild kit.... Glad to hear that things are starting to get sorted out. If I can help in any way, feel free to give a shout. Cheers.

braganjackson11 · 12-17-2006, 09:24 PM

where can we get a hold of a carb rebuild kit for a weber?....don't know if it's a single barrel or a 2 barrel, how can i tell?

Greg S · 12-17-2006, 11:48 PM

Sounds like fuel issues alright and most of the items have been mentioned. Fuel run-back, icing then melting (I'd say 30 to 50 F is the trouble area). The in-line filter should be there but needs to be clean, when was it last changed, or is it brand new? Don't worry about a bubble in the see-through filter, you can't get rid of them.

The jerking and hard start on an angle lead me to think you have a float bowl problem. Namely, it's too empty, even when running! Check and clean the needle valve and adjust the float level.

slouzon · 12-18-2006, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg S

Sounds like fuel issues alright and most of the items have been mentioned. Fuel run-back, icing then melting (I'd say 30 to 50 F is the trouble area). The in-line filter should be there but needs to be clean, when was it last changed, or is it brand new? Don't worry about a bubble in the see-through filter, you can't get rid of them.

The jerking and hard start on an angle lead me to think you have a float bowl problem. Namely, it's too empty, even when running! Check and clean the needle valve and adjust the float level.

Maybe you just want to get a new Weber?
Here's one Ebay right now, you maybe able to get it for less than a rebuild kit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...5331404&rd=1,1

pickuprover · 12-20-2006, 03:44 PM

Just curious about what you found out? I think that my truck must have been reading this thread, as I had to rebuild my fuel pump on the side of the highway on the way home today.

Seems that the diaphram tore when one of the valves dropped out.

bamarover · 12-21-2006, 06:35 AM

Have not adjusted carb yet, Bragan spent what time he had yesterday replacing the rubber connector from the black metal elbow to the carb. It has been vibrating off the metal ring that slips on the carb. Old rubber. Ended up getting radiator hose the correct size and the clamps seem to hold okay now. We have the fuel pump.
As it turns out, gas is leaking after shutoff out the stem that comes out of the carb below the needle valve. Dries up overnight. Goes with your running rich causing dieseling observation. Hopefully, he can get the carb adjustments done today and see what that solves. I'll be off tomorrow afternoon and plan to get it sorted out then at the latest. Thanks for the inputs. Will post the results.
Greg

12-15-2006, 04:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
braganjackson11 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Mobile Alabama, USA Posts: 116 Gallery: 0	HELP!!! (Engine troubles?) so we've gotten my 1971 88" IIA on the road for a little more than a week, close to two, and it had been running great. On the cold mornings from last week it was cranking up on the second time i turned it over every time. Now she doesn't want to start on the second time when it's been sitting for just 10 minutes. In addition, during some points in acceleration, mostly when going up hill, the truck starts getting jerky and you have to let off the accelerator and de-clutch back down to second to get it going normal again. Back to the starting issue, it seems to be having more trouble when it's on a slop whether it be facing up or downhill. The only thing i could figure as being the problem is someone's put in a new fuel line with an in-line filter and it runs all the way down under the oil filter then back up accross the top of the engine block and over to the carb, which seemed a long way to push the fuel to get to the carb. could this be the sole cause of the problems? they all seem to be fuel related....i just filled up with some Raceway unleaded could the quality of the gas be the problem? maybe a higher octane?

12-15-2006, 06:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
pickuprover Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,364 Gallery: 0	need some more info... when you say it doesn't want to crank up... you mean the starter does not spin, or the starte spins and the engine does not fire? The inline should be no problem. It is actually adviseable to have it in as the sediment bowl (on the fuel pump) does not do a great job of filtering the little stuff that fouls the carb. My guess is that one of the check valves on the fuel pump (namely the one that prevents the fuel from running back into the tank) is shot. This would cause two things.. first, the fuel systm would lose it's prime, causing you to have to crank the engine a bit to get the fuel back up to the filter before starting it. Also it creates a weaker pump, thus starving the carb when the petal is full to the floor (ie going up hill) for any length of time (remember you have a bit of reserve in the bowl of the carb...) If this is the case, it is a fairly easy fix. Call your supply parts store (whichever landy one you are using) order a fuel pump rebuild kit (I always keep one in stock, so you might want to order 2 while you are doing it.) Unbolt the fuel pump from the side of the engine, withdraw. Undo the screws around the outside of the pump, flip the top over and you will see two round valves in it. Make sure you document which way each valve is pointing (if you reverse the directions when you reinstall, you will have no pump....). Carefully without damaging the seats, remove the two valves, insert the new valves, stamp them in place. You might want to replace the diaphram in there as well while you are at it, and clean the sediment bowl, replace the paper gasket on the bowl as well. Apply gasket, and goop, bolt back on. Reattach fuel lines, prime the pump with the lever on the bottom of the pump... and fire it up.... __________________ Andrew Barr. 1972 Series III 109. "the Tin Turtle" "However, that was his ploy and I caved....totally caved... LOL!" Jellijo

12-15-2006, 07:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
pickuprover Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,364 Gallery: 0	If it is new, then there could be a speck of dirt in the valves. But as well new does not mean problem free... Webers are actually not that hard to set....... there are two adjustment screws... one for idle mixture (comes out at an angle to the font/back line of the carb) and the idle speed (screw is at right angles to the front/back line of carb and moves the linkage that the throttle cable hooks into...) First things first, adjust your valves, points and timing... then the procedure is simple... set the idle speed to about 500-550 rpm. Turn the idle mixture screw until you get the smoothest idle. Readjust the idle speed back to 500-550rpm. Alternate the 2 until you get a smooth engine at 550-550rpms. To test if setting is correct, turn the mixture screw in a half turn and out a half turn, the engine should start to run a little rougher or you should hear a change in the engine. Reset the screw back to the original setting. As well, when you rev the engine, there should be no hesitation. Back to the no start.. I would definately check the fuel pump, because so far it sounds like that is the culprit. Is you inline filter between the fuel pump and the carb? If so, after it sits for ten minutes, and you try and hand prime it with the lever on the bottom of the fuel pump. Does the fuel flow through the filter? If it does then the fuel is being allowed to flow back down the line to the tank, and thus causing you to need to reprime. Aslo, when you first fire it up when it is cold, do you have any issues? __________________ Andrew Barr. 1972 Series III 109. "the Tin Turtle" "However, that was his ploy and I caved....totally caved... LOL!" Jellijo

12-15-2006, 07:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
pickuprover Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,364 Gallery: 0	The other thing possibly could be a plugged jet in the carb. Try removing the air breather flex hose at the carb, and with the engine running, use the palm of your hand, cover the air intake, until just before the engine stalls, repeat a couple of times. Sometimes, if it is a bit of dirt in the carb, the severe change in pressures will disslodge it or suck it out... __________________ Andrew Barr. 1972 Series III 109. "the Tin Turtle" "However, that was his ploy and I caved....totally caved... LOL!" Jellijo

12-15-2006, 08:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
bamarover Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 93 Gallery: 0	in line fuel filter had air in it at one point - seemsto change Bragan has gone out for the evening, but I saw the post. I think you have it with the fuel pump. Bragan was at my dad;s and the starting problem occured. He sprayed some starter fluid in the carb. Cranked up fairly quicky. He also noted that there was air in the inline filter (disappeared)that I had not seen previously. That would go with the fuel leaking back to the tank you noted, losing prime. Going to go through it tomorrow, check points, timing, . Will post findings and get those two kits ordered. It has deiseled some today after cutting the key off. Does that fit with this picture? Thanks for your input! Greg

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12-15-2006, 07:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
braganjackson11 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Mobile Alabama, USA Posts: 116 Gallery: 0	doesn't want to crank meaning that the starter motor spins but the engine will not turn over....the fuel pump is brand new so i hope that that's not the problem but we'll have to check. could it be something with the carb itself? it is a weber and we have never adjusted any of its settings. i have heard that they are a pain to get tuned properly so i would guess it needs some adjustment of some sort? the engine has also been sputtering after you cut the ignition until you mash the accelerator and it finally cuts out

12-16-2006, 07:13 AM	#7 (permalink)
pickuprover Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,364 Gallery: 0	If it is desieling, then your carb is off a bit (running a little rich and allowing carbon to build up and ignite in the chamber..) I definately think that it is the fuel pump. ONe other thing though, if the needle valve in the carb is not closing (is there any leaking fuel at the carb?) sometimes that will allow the gas to flow back to the tank as well, even if the fuel pump valves are in good shape. (you seem to need both the check valves and the effect of your thumb over the end of a straw to hold the gas up sometimes). The fuel pump would explain both the hard start and the jerky. But I was thinking of one other thing. Not sure how close to freezing it gets in Alabama (please forgive me, I am in the great white north) but the webers are noted for icing up. That as well could explian things (especially if the weather is in the 27 to 37 f range and high humidity.) As the air excellerates through the ventrical of the carb, it condenses and freezes on the inside of the card, reducing the amount of air until it pretty much starves the engine of air (usually though this is notable by the plume of black smoke emitted by the tailpipe...). After you shut the engine down, the ice melts, pools the water in the air intake, which gets pulled into the cylinders, fouling the plugs, causing you to have to spark them long enought to heat them up and evaporate the water... Just a thought, but I think that you guys would be a little warm for that..... __________________ Andrew Barr. 1972 Series III 109. "the Tin Turtle" "However, that was his ploy and I caved....totally caved... LOL!" Jellijo

12-16-2006, 07:24 AM	#8 (permalink)
pickuprover Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,364 Gallery: 0	While you are ordering parts.. get a carb rebuild kit, set of points, rotor and cap, and coil. Should always have a spare if each on hand, will fix the majority of the everyday problems on these things. Usually the major problems on these things are minor, so keeping some spare parts around is a good idea. __________________ Andrew Barr. 1972 Series III 109. "the Tin Turtle" "However, that was his ploy and I caved....totally caved... LOL!" Jellijo

12-16-2006, 09:16 AM	#9 (permalink)
braganjackson11 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Mobile Alabama, USA Posts: 116 Gallery: 0	we go my grandpa over this morning to help us get everything tuned up and we found that the timing was way off, so after adjusting that it ran alot better however it's still dieseling so we're gonna get the carb adjusted and hope that fixes the problem it's still very jerky when the accelerator pedal is floored and it's in 4th gear, almost like it's getting starved of fuel. pop aggreed and thought that the needle valve needed to be replaced so we'll have to get that. is a new needle valve parts of a carb rebuild kit? in trying to get it running we already got an extra set of points, rotor , cap, and coil so all we have left is the carb rebuild kit and the fuel pump rebuild kit which we will be ordering come monday morning

12-16-2006, 04:21 PM	#10 (permalink)
pickuprover Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,364 Gallery: 0	The needle valve should be in the rebuild kit.... Glad to hear that things are starting to get sorted out. If I can help in any way, feel free to give a shout. Cheers. __________________ Andrew Barr. 1972 Series III 109. "the Tin Turtle" "However, that was his ploy and I caved....totally caved... LOL!" Jellijo

12-17-2006, 09:24 PM	#11 (permalink)
braganjackson11 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Mobile Alabama, USA Posts: 116 Gallery: 0	where can we get a hold of a carb rebuild kit for a weber?....don't know if it's a single barrel or a 2 barrel, how can i tell?

12-17-2006, 11:48 PM	#12 (permalink)
Greg S Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Duncan, B.C. Canada. Posts: 145 Gallery: 0	Sounds like fuel issues alright and most of the items have been mentioned. Fuel run-back, icing then melting (I'd say 30 to 50 F is the trouble area). The in-line filter should be there but needs to be clean, when was it last changed, or is it brand new? Don't worry about a bubble in the see-through filter, you can't get rid of them. The jerking and hard start on an angle lead me to think you have a float bowl problem. Namely, it's too empty, even when running! Check and clean the needle valve and adjust the float level.

12-20-2006, 03:44 PM	#14 (permalink)
pickuprover Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,364 Gallery: 0	Just curious about what you found out? I think that my truck must have been reading this thread, as I had to rebuild my fuel pump on the side of the highway on the way home today. Seems that the diaphram tore when one of the valves dropped out. __________________ Andrew Barr. 1972 Series III 109. "the Tin Turtle" "However, that was his ploy and I caved....totally caved... LOL!" Jellijo

12-21-2006, 06:35 AM	#15 (permalink)
bamarover Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 93 Gallery: 0	Too many holiday activities Have not adjusted carb yet, Bragan spent what time he had yesterday replacing the rubber connector from the black metal elbow to the carb. It has been vibrating off the metal ring that slips on the carb. Old rubber. Ended up getting radiator hose the correct size and the clamps seem to hold okay now. We have the fuel pump. As it turns out, gas is leaking after shutoff out the stem that comes out of the carb below the needle valve. Dries up overnight. Goes with your running rich causing dieseling observation. Hopefully, he can get the carb adjustments done today and see what that solves. I'll be off tomorrow afternoon and plan to get it sorted out then at the latest. Thanks for the inputs. Will post the results. Greg

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