military suspension

[braganjackson11]

hi there, my name is Bragan Jackson and my dad and I have just begun stripping down a 1971 series IIa. We have gotten all the body panels off revealing the rusted out frame. We have begun the process of searching for new suspension and drivetrain parts whether new or salvaged from other vehicles. I was wondering if anyone could tell me the differences between a military landie and a regular one. need to know differences such as ride heighth increases, shackle length, and shock length/travel. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[Muddy Oval]

What are you doing about replacing the frame?

[braganjackson11]

we plan on replacing it with a new galvanized chassis from Richard's Chassis

[braganjackson11]

another question, is there anyone who has purchased and installed a set of revolving shackles from a US vendor? If so, from where and what was the cost. Also what other modifications were nescessary other than extended brake lines. We plan on replacing the worn out leaf springs with a set of parabolics from Rocky Mountain or TI. I saw a company in the UK, Gon2Far Suspension, that sold a kit for revolving shackles but after searching the web it seemed that their shackles were the exact same as a company located here in the US, Metal Made-Rite. Are these shackles truly the same or are they just similiar in appearance?

[Muddy Oval]

I dunno- we restore all our projects with stock parts and we stopped carrying parabolics completely since most people don't want them after they try them.
Did you already place the chassis order? When you refer to 'military suspension' for it- what are you trying to do? I assume it's not a lightweight, or is it?

[braganjackson11]

No it isn't a light weight. We were trying to get a little bit more of a suspension lift than the parabolic springs provide. I had read that many people had used the extended military shakles on their series truck to get more articulation and ended up getting an increased right heigth as well. And no we haven't placed the order on the chassis yet. The only frames they have at the moment are series three so we were going to wait until april to place the order when our restored bulkhead arrives from East Coast Rovers in Maine.

[cdmbrennan]

You'll gain an inch or three from the parabolics. I haven't heard of anyone not crazy about them- Muddy Oval's the first. Curious as to their experience.

A military frame differs in several ways (generally)- different style rear crossmember (straight across rather than semi-"v" shaped, look at Paddockspares.com under chassis to see what I'm referring to); extended shackle mounts (one-ton frames had this); removable transmission crossmember (desirable).

Not to throw fuel on the fire, but if you're looking for height I'd consider buying a coil-sprung frame rather than a leaf sprung one. You'll have to switch out to Rangie or similar axles but you'll definitely get more clearance with Old Man Emu (OME) springs and Rancho or OME shocks. Swapping out your propshafts down the road with custom ones and spacers will give you *virtually* unlimited height. And you'll benefit from beefier axles.

I don't know the availability of frames with extended shackle mounts but I can't imagine that they'd be easy to come by. You mention that you investigated the gon2far site- I don't know if you came across the article about the guy that extended his mounts. (http://www.gon2far.co.uk/index.php?d...les/bowy.html).

Are there major differences between a SIII and SII frame?

Good luck, keep us updated. I remember Tidewater Rovers had several Series frames a month or so ago- might be worth checking to see if they have any.

[Muddy Oval]

The longer shackles were used on some 109's that were used for heavy loads etc. We've never fitted them on anything else, but that certainly doesn't mean that you can't.
Our shop has removed more parabolics than installed them- the ride is so bouncy that many people tire of them quickly. I've also seen them collapse or throw off driveline angles to the point of causing problems. I'll never put them on mine from what I've seen. If YOU like them, that's all that counts though. Nuttin wrong with that.
Making a coiler Series raises the level of effort and expense greatly, but if done right it makes a nice offroad rig- although no long term value as a collectible.

[braganjackson11]

yeah we had planned on replacing the chassis with a coil suspension but wanted to do the build-up work after the conversion ourselves. We contacted East Caost Rover about having them send us a refurbished bulkhead and the parts nescessary to complete the conversion but they said they wouldn't just send the parts down, they would only do a complete restoration at the factory. So we have decided on just going with the parabolics unless we find another company in the US that will do the work and allow us to clean up the body, paint, and customize suspension aspects ourselves. We would still love to go the coil route for the better ride quality and other performance boosts if we find a US vendor that had a reasonable price. In other words, we still have no idea exactly what kind of finished product we want to have

[Muddy Oval]

Richard's won't make a coiler chassis... there's another company we deal with in the UK that will. DAP does resto work, but it fairly well backlogged right now.
You want coil springs, not a coilover then- right? I'm really confused what you're asking for.

[braganjackson11]

haha sorry bout that. as far as we can see, we are going to stick with the parabolics. the coil, not coilover oops , suspension was an early possiblity that we thought about doing if we could find someone that would sell us the frame and parts nescessary to complete the conversion in a kit. After looking around the internet we saw that East Coast Rover were the only guys that seemed to be doing the coil suspension in the US but said they wouldn't just sned the parts. we don't want to pay the shipping costs of parts from the UK any more than we need to so we decided parabolics were the way to go.

[braganjackson11]

another question, if i were to take a standard Series IIa frame put parabolics on it, and use the extended 1 ton/military shakles (not welding on the 1 ton mounting points, just the shackles) would the Explorer Pro Comp 9000 shocks be able to handle the extra ride heigth, or would longer travel shocks be nescessary? If different shocks are required what kind will fit directly into the frame mounts without modification?

[Muddy Oval]

We don't deal with parabolics, so I don't know what ride height it would sit at- and the longer 109 shackles on an 88 add another lift. Why do you plan to lift it so high? The driveline will be a mess! It'll cost you as much as a decent used Defender to build some custom job.
ECR isn't the only place that builds coiler Series- DAP has done several, including one that was an absolute show piece and one that could plant one wheel on a standard height loading dock! I'm sure there are others who would build them too- or supply the parts. ECR uses Richards Chassis from the UK- but like I said, Richards will flat refuse to do a coiler Series chassis... There is another source for coiler chassis and you've probably got to order the stock chassis anyway, so you might as well get what you want. I listed a D90 frame on Dweeb if you want one.
I just can't imagine wanting parabolics.... boing boing boing... blech.

[acornhoek]

I've had Revolver shackles w/ TIC parabolics and ProComp long extention shocks on my '69 109 Carawagon for the last 3+ years. I've had great experience w/ them and have had no problems (great ride feel). On the rear I removed the limiting straps and put in a central limiting strap attached to the diff because of the prop that runs through the chassis. If it were a non-Carawagon I'd have cut & braced the chassis where the prop runs to give even more play, but I never intended on taking it into seriously hairy places......if I rolled a 109 I could replace the roof, but trying to replace the Carawagon top would be insane....

For the most part, my take on modifications are those that can be reversed (especially on the Carawagon), so I weld up brackets that can be bolted. That's a personal preference, and I share it in case you ask questions about my set up.

I'm building up an 88 and will be doing the same on it..........

[braganjackson11]

the reason i want to get such a lift is because i would like to fit 9.00x16 Michelin XZL tires in. I know i would have to either get wheel spacers or less backspacing to make them fit because the 1-tons came with a wider track (i believe because of the ENV axles it came stock with.) If the Parabolics and wheel spacers alone provide enough clearance i would love to save money by not replacing prop shafts and what not. Although i think we're going to get extended brake lines just for good measure whether we get the military/revolver shackles or not.

acorn, did the pro comp shocks fit directly into the original mounting points or were there other modifications that were nescessary? From where did you purchase your revolvers? Were they a direct fit or were spacers in between the the frame and shackle required? Did you have to modify the prop shafts to prevent vibration? If so what kind of modifications were nescessary? Lemme know when you get the modifications done on the 88

Also, is there anyone who knows of a vendor that can get a hold of 8.25x16 or 9.00x16 Michelin XZL tires in the US, preferably the southeast. Also does anyone know how wide the 9.00x16 is at the sidewall? or is 9.00 the width?